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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 16:33:03 GMT -6
The reverb/delay/room/space/whatever on the Willie record Teatro is a benchmark for me. It's never been clear to me what all was used by Lanois on that record to create the overall ambience and space, or if anybody really knows (and has publicly divulged it)? But I would like to know. I would suspect it's a combo of that room (the actual theater in Oxnard, CA) and the usual suspects in Lanois's considerable delay/verb rack. Have you seen the making of video? Certainly the bleed from having two drummers firing at once is part of the sound as well. Yes. I have seen that. It's great. I guess I just need to go and read up more on what all he has in his rack for reverb/delay.
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 15:37:29 GMT -6
I don’t know the interview but he produced the Joe Henry album Fuse. In 1999. Lanois mixed some of it, but I have become somewhat obsessed with the bass sound on the title track. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to try and get that sound. Flatwounds. After that I have no idea. Fuse
Thoughts? Cheers, Geoff Overall that track kinda reminds me of Emmylou's Wrecking Ball... the overall space...depth... its so open & naked. And that big lush Lanois reverb. What WAS he using in those days?! The reverb/delay/room/space/whatever on the Willie record Teatro is a benchmark for me. It's never been clear to me what all was used by Lanois on that record to create the overall ambience and space, or if anybody really knows (and has publicly divulged it)? But I would like to know.
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 8:23:49 GMT -6
Sorry if this is a daft question but is this our Tbone as in Tbone81? If not, any vid's examples, songs etc.? T-Bone Burnett is a Texas based producer who is famous for Americana type stuff but has worked on a ton of things. I'd say he hit the mainstream consciousness with the soundtrack for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? because it was such a sensation but people heard him doing Counting Crows, Elvis Costello, Wallflowers, and a million other things even if they didn't know it. More recently he's worked Allison Kraus, Brandi Carlisle, and a bunch of stuff in that world of things. He was also a guitar player with Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue tour in the 70's. But I'd say he's most known these days for being the standard bearer for old school recording. People in a room. Real instruments. No headphones. Complete takes. Etc. etc. How much of that is true or not is beyond my knowledge, but that's how I think of him. Ever seen the documentary on the Rolling Thunder Revue? It's worth watching. There are some pretty great live versions of Dylan songs from that era (late 60s to mid 70s Dylan being the best Dylan, IMO). I also enjoyed the discussion at various points about Scarlet Rivera, the violin player in Dylan's band. She was apparently dating Gene Simmons at the time, and would sometimes walk around with a sword strapped to her side.
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Post by Quint on Mar 21, 2024 12:26:22 GMT -6
I have pretty much all of the exact same comments about Apollos and workflow as you have stated here. I have a pair of x16s, and will likely be adding a third 16 channel Apollo (for a total of 48 channels) whenever the new generation is released. I use my 2192 via AES for simple two track stuff. It all works great and sounds great with Luna. I have other complaints about some of UA's business practices, etc., but the quality of the Apollos, Luna, and workflow are generally not one of them*. *I WOULD like to see the next gen Apollos have better routing. That's why I've held out on buying a third x16. I'm hoping the new gen will be better in that context. totally agreed - about some of the business practices and the future routing… Even though I paid TONS of money for all my UAD plugins including ones that are now being almost given away, I remind myself that my system and plugins owe me nothing. I have made a living off of them for a LONG time. I don't generally disagree with you about not being owed anything from UA, for plugins I bought in the past. It's some of the other things that have been going on that I don't love. As for routing, I just want them to use a bigger FPGA in the next Apollo. It would be nice to have things like more stereo cues and stuff like that, especially without having to make a tradeoff on how many ARM paths are available in Luna. It's too much of a compromise, in my opinion.
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Post by Quint on Mar 21, 2024 12:22:43 GMT -6
UA Console has keystrokes? What can you do with them? Presumably you still have to target the Console window for them to apply. They are listed on page 65 and 66 of the current manual: media.uaudio.com/support/manuals/v11.0.0-y2Bz6/Apollo%20Thunderbolt%20Software%20Manual.pdfYeah, you still have to have the Console app engaged for them to work, otherwise you will likely be triggering things in your DAW instead. I know most of the PT quick keys and all the ones I need in Console so it makes it easy to fly around and do what I need to do. I have considered adding a Softube Fader just for the sole purpose of controlling Console, but it's kinda a lot of money for just that. Mark II Console 1 units are being heavily discounted right now. $349. Also, there is the Console Midi thing from Radu Varga. You can use any midi controller at that point to control Console. www.raduvarga.com/software/ua-midi-controlAnd, also, there is obviously Luna, which removes the need to even mess with Console at all but, that obviously requires you to switch DAWs from whatever you're using now.
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Post by Quint on Mar 21, 2024 10:14:11 GMT -6
I’m with ya wiz. My studio is centered around a large Apollo system w 4 apollos (two of those are Apollo 16’s) and a couple octo plugin accelerators. The workflow for me is unbeatable. I think aside from a large scale pro tools rig, there is nothing else out there that touches it for workflow. The sound quality has been great for me and I’m working on the Mark ii series. For DA to my monitors, master buss conversion, mastering, and things like lead vocals, stereo sources, or when recording only one or two channels at a time, I use high end conversion which is connected to the Apollos digitally.. (2x Hilo, Burl, 2x Svartbox). It leaves me wanting for nothing. And there are many times I have traveled remotely and just brought my Apollo twin with me for recording sessions with very well-known artists. The results we achieved were excellent. No complaints from anyone. In the past I used to have a much more elaborate system with an outboard mixer and hub for headphone mixes. It was quite complicated and didn’t allow me to give each musician the best headphone mix. And sonically did not sound as good. What I’m able to do with the Apollo system is truly remarkable and far exceeds my previous system. I like the system so much that after a couple decades of being on PC, I switched to Mac. Although I was able to use my Apollo system on PC, Universal Audio is clearly more dedicated to the Mac platform. My current rig is my favorite I’ve ever had and has been rock solid. I have pretty much all of the exact same comments about Apollos and workflow as you have stated here. I have a pair of x16s, and will likely be adding a third 16 channel Apollo (for a total of 48 channels) whenever the new generation is released. I use my 2192 via AES for simple two track stuff. It all works great and sounds great with Luna. I have other complaints about some of UA's business practices, etc., but the quality of the Apollos, Luna, and workflow are generally not one of them*. *I WOULD like to see the next gen Apollos have better routing. That's why I've held out on buying a third x16. I'm hoping the new gen will be better in that context.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 18:32:43 GMT -6
So you're using dedicated word clock cables? I wasn't clear on that? Yes, this is the reason I changed directions from the Apollo. Although Console is easy to use, it’s still not ideal for me with my outboard. I'm not sure I follow what that has to do with word clock cables though? Were you intending to respond to somebody else?
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 17:25:09 GMT -6
Yeah, something is wrong. Sounds like something is up with your AES connection. Could be the cable. Could be a word clock issue. Could be a settings issue on either the Apollo or Dangerous which is causing issues on the software side. It’s definitely not my dangerous converters, but I don’t have this issue with my apogee converters they pass exactly what I hear and use the dangerous clock. It must be something in the settings or that 75 ohm switch? I also noticed going in through my AD+ the headroom is compromised and I can’t hit my compression or my level input nearly as high as I can with my other converters . I also noticed this on my Lavry converter between spdif and AES, the AES port sounded much more open, and just all around better compared to spdif My cables are top-notch and I swapped out a few of them and got the same results So you're using dedicated word clock cables? I wasn't clear on that?
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 17:04:52 GMT -6
Something’s not right. If it’s just going digitally, it wouldn’t be going through the ADDA, right? . That’s what I thought that digital is digital, right? When I use my USB in and out with my Dangerous convert converters usb directly ion and out of my computer there is a huge difference in headroom and overall width and quality. When I pass through the Apollo, it’s not even close., and to be honest, not useable IMO. Yeah, something is wrong. Sounds like something is up with your AES connection. Could be the cable. Could be a word clock issue. Could be a settings issue on either the Apollo or Dangerous which is causing issues on the software side.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 15:17:50 GMT -6
Does anyone know if the Apollo Black Lion Mods on a Blackface 16 MKII will be as good as the X series? Does anyone notice from going thru the AES port on their Apollo X to their D/A sounding different than without it? In other words taking the Apollo out of the chain. I noticed my D/A is compromised in sound even going through the AES port on the Apollo. It’s very noticeable, stereo width/punch/clarity/fullness/closeness to the sound. It’s at least a 30% difference maybe more. Is the 75 ohm Word Clock termination button on the Apollo turned on, if you're using a WC connection and/or are you sure that you're alternatively getting a clock signal embedded in the AES connection and, if so, that your other DA is properly receiving this embedded clock signal?
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 12:42:29 GMT -6
Seems like ten years ago we were hoping for a 2192 version of an Apollo. Still my favorite AD ever. Maybe that will be 4th gen : ). As per the question about paying to upgrade old technology - for me, it was that I know I really liked the BLA modded Apollo. So much so that I am reticent to try the "X" line - my modded Twin was so much better than its original sound, I did not want to risk it. I also really like the BLA Revolution, so apparently I just really respond well to their sound. I will also note that I really do enjoy the Apollo work flow, and recording through console. When I have tried other systems (Apogee, Prism, Antelope) I found myself messing with tech and losing flow. All this to say I can empathize with JK's dilemma of wanting ideal sound, but also wanting to reduce friction on the process. If he is in a similar situation (likes the Apollo workflow and liked the BLA Revolution sound) trying the BLA mod on the 6 could be a way to achieve a sound he liked while keeping the work flow he likes. Especially since its hundreds of dollars rather than thousands (I haven't looked at high end two channel conversion in a while but I assume ihey all still start around 2k). Anyway - if we are voting, count me in on a 2192 Apollo : ) JMH I just use my 2192 WITH my Apollo, via AES. Best of both worlds, I say.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 10:48:43 GMT -6
We are seeing the same: just wish UA, would bring it’s A game on releasing some more significant recording gear, not the low hanging fruit. Agreed. But I doubt they will, unfortunately. New Apollos are the best it will likely get.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 10:38:32 GMT -6
Agreed, UA seems more intent on squeezing as much dough as possible off of essentially older plugs, little new cost and little hardware related that’s very bold: guitar pedals: seriously ? I wonder what Bill senior would think of current UA hardware innovation ? From an "I want UA to be a true blue pro audio company" perspective, I don't love the guitar pedals either. However, from a "this is what the brave new world of music gear looks like, and this is the stuff that people are buying, which keeps us in business" perspective, I can't fault UA for going after what is some pretty low hanging fruit, where all of the R&D was basically already done. Slap it in a pedal box and sell it for 60% profit. Investors could argue that it would be irresponsible on a fiduciary level to NOT pursue the pedal market. Also, the pedals do apparently sound pretty good. So there's that. But I do miss the days of UA making things like the 2192 or 8110. Super high quality hardware seems to be somewhat of an afterthought over there now. Not that the Apollo isn't perfectly fine, but it's not next level like the 2192 was when it was released.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 9:40:14 GMT -6
But why put $100’s into a 5-8 year old interface design, when a new Apollo must be coming? I tend to agree that a new Apollo is probably not too far off, but I also thought a new 4th gen Apollo would have already been released a while back, at least based on the frequency of previous releases. The X series came out in 2018. That said, maybe UA figures that the Apollo has reached maturity in its design. I mean, some other companies release new gen converters at a much slower frequency. How long were the original Lynx Auroras around before the new (n) series came out? At least 10 years, huh? So I suppose it's possible that UA won't continue to release new Apollo generations as often as they did in the past. Guess we'll see. Up until fairly recently, I was convinced that a new 4th gen Apollo would already be out by now, but now I'm maybe not sure what to think.
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 10:56:14 GMT -6
Was talking lynx not UA ! I see now. You didn't quote anybody when you responded, so I thought you were talking to me.
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 7:57:02 GMT -6
Not what they told me when I asked them
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 7:53:42 GMT -6
The Apollo x16 also has the 24dB capability as well. It's a nice feature to have.
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Post by Quint on Mar 14, 2024 9:00:14 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Mar 12, 2024 20:43:43 GMT -6
Blue screens, Driver support needing to reinstall the software sometimes having to reinstall windows because the issue never fixed from reinstalling, random pops, Over heating causing it to restart that causes a domino effect restarting all Bluetooth devices to reset with it, sometimes my mic is not detected. If using outside of recording such as general communication on discord for example I have to restart Discord every time I boot into windows also again because of the random restarts. This added with many more I have had since I have had it. Safe to say for me I will never purchase another apollo interface for myself. It's not Apollos in general. It's USB Apollos, specifically. I don't care what anyone at UA says. Windows is an afterthought for UA, and I have my doubts that they will ever take the Windows market seriously, or at least as seriously as they take the Mac market. It's just the way that it is. UA really should just stop marketing to Windows users. I switched to Mac from PC because of all of this and, hey, my Apollos work great on Mac. In fairness, my TB Apollos worked flawlessly on PC, but I made absolutely sure that I bought the right parts for my PC build. It's the other stuff like no Luna for Windows that ultimately pushed me to Mac. UA haven't kept up with Windows driver updates for TB Apollos either, though TB Apollos at least still work on Windows, provided you use the right PC builds. But you're not the only Apollo USB owner I've heard make such comments about their Apollo Twin USB.
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Post by Quint on Mar 11, 2024 19:46:42 GMT -6
Its funny, I use the Apollo x8. I read these threads...look at the Apollo .......and think of the past convertors I have had......wonder for a while.....then shrug and say to myself....close your wallet and just keep mixing... LOL cheers Wiz Yeah, these days, workflow is what matters to me most. Other than a two channel converter/interface for overdubbing and mixdown, like my 2192 or a Burl, I don't even care all that much about trying to do a shootout between interfaces for the purposes of comparing sound quality. Most converters are pretty good these days, and I'm more interested in something that is rocksolid and has the features I need to do what I need to do. And, not for nothing, but I do like the sound of my pair of x16s. I often see people talking about how they don't like the sound of the Apollo (not necessarily anyone in this thread) and I'm like, which one? The X series sounds better than the silver face from over 10 years ago, so if you've only ever used the silver or black models, well... Apollos unfortunately seem to get discussed in a monolithic manner, as if they all sound the same, regardless of generation.
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Post by Quint on Mar 11, 2024 13:08:02 GMT -6
That is a pretty damn auspicious absence. Apropos of Eric's comment above, I'd love to have seen a digilink port on the Carbon too. Now that would really open the system up. I said the same thing about a Digilink when the Carbon came out, but it's Avid, so that's never going to happen.
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Post by Quint on Mar 11, 2024 10:06:14 GMT -6
I have a feeling it was intentional So do I.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2024 16:11:03 GMT -6
I think the time domain stuff is the best stuff Trinnov does. Dirac does time/ Phase correction as well, the Trinnov just has more horse power processing wise along with better conversion so it seams a little better, but Dirac is pretty hard to beat for the coin. I think I'd be using the digital I/O on the Dirac, plus my own converters, so as not to have to worry about any conversion concerns.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2024 8:52:44 GMT -6
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that. Cool, you're not going to buy it so there's no issue. Carbon fits a certain niche and that's a bit obvious, I don't want a full HDX rig because not only is it expensive but it's also getting a bit long in the tooth and on top of that I'd have no use for it anyway due to the amount of HW I have, even from an effects standpoint. What I require is something that integrates deeply with Pro Tools, has miminal latency, can offload a few bits to DSP if required and let's me get on with recording no fuss. It does all of those things and after discounts a Carbon + Carbon Pre is a thousand more than an Aurora 16 TB3 in my local currency, for me it's like why not?
I do agree though, it is a "weird middle ground" but it's one that in this niche situation is the best choice. Obviously that may not work for a lot of people.. As for John, well unfortunately the Trinnov Nova supports ADAT and the D-Mon doesn't. If you need digital, yeah the Carbon really doesn't have many options and that does suck a bit.
It seems like a huge oversight to not include a spdif or AES mirror for the main outs. So many interfaces have that now, so I'm not sure why Avid chose to not include that. I remember when the Lynx Hilo came out. I "think" it was the first interface to offer a dedicated monitor out. I remember, at the time, thinking how that was a great idea. Sure enough, over the years, a lot of other companies have adopted that approach. Seems like a no brainer these days.
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Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2024 7:33:58 GMT -6
I'd have to go back and watch that video again, but I do trust Matt with latency measurements. He knows what he's doing with that stuff. I think one of the biggest take home messages from that video was that IF Pro Tools is going to be your ONLY DAW, that might be a reason to go with Carbon but, IF Pro Tools is NOT going to be your only DAW, then you might want to consider the Apollo instead. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I want to say that that video was released before Luna was updated to include automatic DSP to native switching for plugins, which also moves the needle a bit. Subspace posted the latencies already, just be smart with it and it will be far quicker than Native. If the plan is to stack then yeah, it can be far worse.
Oh if Pro Tools wasn't my main DAW and I didn't have some outboard HW I wouldn't touch Carbon with someone else's barge pole. Then again I wouldn't be interested in an Apollo either, I'd go Metric Halo or something..
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that.
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