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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 9, 2018 8:19:57 GMT -6
Well that's interesting. In one I chose the Warbler, the other, the KM84. So I guess it depends on what you're playing to my ears. All the more reason to have a couple of mics to choose from I guess. I've used both single and pairs of KM84's a lot because a friend lends them to me. I choose the Soyuz over them often, but sometimes nothing fits better than the 84, so I try to pick for each track.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2018 8:23:09 GMT -6
Well that's interesting. In one I chose the Warbler, the other, the KM84. So I guess it depends on what you're playing to my ears. Yeah a lot of people chose a split of the two.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 9, 2018 8:29:57 GMT -6
But damn Ragan, they sound really good. I don't know if you're doing anything differently, but don't change a thing. Maybe it's those Martin guitars I'm digging. I'm a Martin guy anytime over Gibson's.
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Post by mike on Aug 9, 2018 8:35:00 GMT -6
Well that's interesting. In one I chose the Warbler, the other, the KM84. So I guess it depends on what you're playing to my ears. Yeah a lot of people chose a split of the two.
It speaks well of the 127's on this that the small difference can come down to the song, placement or performance before the mic's. For the price, it seems like a no brainer.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 9, 2018 9:07:47 GMT -6
So much of this is millimeters of positioning difference with similar sounding devices. Especially with cardioid proximity effect in play.
When proximity effect is really close mic to mic, it's easily the largest important similarity. When I ran the KM140 and MKH406 along with some others in a test, proximity was hugely different.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2018 9:14:52 GMT -6
For my part, I was a little shocked how close they are. Whenever I do these, I always level match and set up a mute-toggle keystroke so I can listen blind right off the bat. So I strummed the parts and set that up and the very first time I listened, it was totally blind. I did the C/D comparison first and listening back I had a pretty clear preference and I was certain it was the KM84 I was picking. I was toggling back and forth thinking, "Yeah, ok, I definitely like it better, but is it a ~$1k difference? I don't know man, it's a little woodier and less strident but they're both quite close..." etc. Opened my eyes to find it was the 127 I was digging. The Eagles tune with the 6 and 12 string was a lot closer to my ear. At first listen, I thought I may have screwed up the inputs or something. Did a quick null test to make sure the audio was actually different. I can hear it clearly now after acclimating to the differences, but man, it's close. I also preferred the 127 on that clip when listening blind.
Now that it's been a few days, it's more of a toss up for me. There are things I like about the KM84 too. Its energy seems to me to be centered more in the upper mids where the 127 is more relaxed there.
My main takeaway from this is that the 127 is very good mic at any price and a major bargain at $250 or whatever it is.
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Post by svart on Aug 9, 2018 9:24:04 GMT -6
For my part, I was a little shocked how close they are. Whenever I do these, I always level match and set up a mute-toggle keystroke so I can listen blind right off the bat. So I strummed the parts and set that up and the very first time I listened, it was totally blind. I did the C/D comparison first and listening back I had a pretty clear preference and I was certain it was the KM84 I was picking. I was toggling back and forth thinking, "Yeah, ok, I definitely like it better, but is it a ~$1k difference? I don't know man, it's a little woodier and less strident but they're both quite close..." etc. Opened my eyes to find it was the 127 I was digging. The Eagles tune with the 6 and 12 string was a lot closer to my ear. At first listen, I thought I may have screwed up the inputs or something. Did a quick null test to make sure the audio was actually different. I can hear it clearly now after acclimating to the differences, but man, it's close. I also preferred the 127 on that clip when listening blind. Now that it's been a few days, it's more of a toss up for me. There are things I like about the KM84 too. Its energy seems to me to be centered more in the upper mids where the 127 is more relaxed there. My main takeaway from this is that the 127 is very good mic at any price and a major bargain at $250 or whatever it is. Just the act of shifting the earbuds in my ears makes the minuscule differences disappear.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2018 10:00:36 GMT -6
But damn Ragan, they sound really good. I don't know if you're doing anything differently, but don't change a thing. Maybe it's those Martin guitars I'm digging. I'm a Martin guy anytime over Gibson's. Well we don't call you GJB (Gibson John Butler) now do we...
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 9, 2018 10:20:03 GMT -6
Hey Ragan, maybe you could do an off-axis test/comparison? That might reveal some more differences, which might be relevant or not for you depending on the recording situation.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 9, 2018 10:21:46 GMT -6
Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue . I'm waiting for someone to compare the ISK SDC's to the KM84's. That would be fun.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2018 10:25:36 GMT -6
Hey Ragan, maybe you could do an off-axis test/comparison? That might reveal some more differences, which might be relevant or not for you depending on the recording situation. A good idea but I returned the KM84. My purposes were mainly mercenary, namely, am I going to shell out for a KM84. Would be interesting though.
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Post by brenta on Aug 9, 2018 12:10:29 GMT -6
And that's why I love my 127s. Two matched pairs, with shock mounts, new in a nice wood box for what I would pay for a single KM84. Now if I could only use them as well as ragan does... Yours came with a wood box and and shock mounts or you bought those separately? Mine just came with a cardboard box and clips.
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Post by brenta on Aug 9, 2018 12:13:40 GMT -6
Ragan, you didn't get a chance to compare them on drum overheads, did you?
I've got a pair of the 127's with regular cardioid and cardioid flat capsules. I've used 84's extensively in the past but haven't had a chance to compare them directly. I had thought they were missing a bit of the magic but they definitely hold up well in these clips.
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Post by svart on Aug 9, 2018 12:39:34 GMT -6
Ragan, you didn't get a chance to compare them on drum overheads, did you? I've got a pair of the 127's with regular cardioid and cardioid flat capsules. I've used 84's extensively in the past but haven't had a chance to compare them directly. I had thought they were missing a bit of the magic but they definitely hold up well in these clips. I'm very interested in knowing any details about using them as overheads against 84's... Ragan did have some files with the 127's as overheads, but not direct comparisons I don't think.
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 9, 2018 13:05:54 GMT -6
I am very surprised that I chose the 127 in the second group. Chose the 84 in the first one. Neato! Maybe I'll check into them. I really enjoy my Miktek c5, though. Curious about off-axis response as well.
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Post by matt@IAA on Aug 9, 2018 13:25:27 GMT -6
And that's why I love my 127s. Two matched pairs, with shock mounts, new in a nice wood box for what I would pay for a single KM84. Now if I could only use them as well as ragan does... Yours came with a wood box and and shock mounts or you bought those separately? Mine just came with a cardboard box and clips. When I bought my second pair I ordered the box and four shock mounts from Guosheng directly.
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Post by jampa on Aug 9, 2018 15:18:21 GMT -6
And Ragan did post files on the Internet, and subsequently, many microphones were sold on both sides, and there was much mirth, and the sound of his guitar was excellent.
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 9, 2018 16:35:30 GMT -6
And Ragan did post files on the Internet, and subsequently, many microphones were sold on both sides, and there was much mirth, and the sound of his guitar was excellent. "And there was much rejoicing."
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SDC Clips
Aug 9, 2018 16:42:13 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2018 16:42:13 GMT -6
Ragan, you didn't get a chance to compare them on drum overheads, did you? I've got a pair of the 127's with regular cardioid and cardioid flat capsules. I've used 84's extensively in the past but haven't had a chance to compare them directly. I had thought they were missing a bit of the magic but they definitely hold up well in these clips. I had a limited time window and didn’t have a drum kit set up, otherwise I would have. I was mostly just interested in the acoustic guitar angle so I just did those couple of things real quick (had to leave town the next morning).
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 9, 2018 18:28:59 GMT -6
Well that's interesting. In one I chose the Warbler, the other, the KM84. So I guess it depends on what you're playing to my ears. Ditto.
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Post by jampa on Aug 10, 2018 2:15:35 GMT -6
"And there was much rejoicing." And there was much rejoicing. Yay!Hey, I couldn't help but notice you totally called the mics - and without evening listening to them... I uh, wondered if you have any favourite numbers, maybe 6 of them, between 1 and 40?
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Post by drbill on Aug 10, 2018 10:42:00 GMT -6
ragan - how close were you on the placement? (maybe I missed it somewhere.....) While I like the tone of the 84, the thing that REALLY sells it for me is the off axis response and how it opens up options in placement for me. I've never had another mic - Neumann, AKG or anything else that was as unique as the 84 is in this respect. Curious as to your placement.
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SDC Clips
Aug 10, 2018 10:53:13 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ragan on Aug 10, 2018 10:53:13 GMT -6
ragan - how close were you on the placement? (maybe I missed it somewhere.....) While I like the tone of the 84, the thing that REALLY sells it for me is the off axis response and how it opens up options in placement for me. I've never had another mic - Neumann, AKG or anything else that was as unique as the 84 is in this respect. Curious as to your placement. I was my usual 18” or so off the neck/body joint.
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Post by drbill on Aug 10, 2018 11:01:18 GMT -6
ragan - how close were you on the placement? (maybe I missed it somewhere.....) While I like the tone of the 84, the thing that REALLY sells it for me is the off axis response and how it opens up options in placement for me. I've never had another mic - Neumann, AKG or anything else that was as unique as the 84 is in this respect. Curious as to your placement. I was my usual 18” or so off the neck/body joint. Cool. Yeah, that's in the zone where it's off axis is not so important. Getting further back is where the men get separated from the boys so to speak. Still, good to hear the cheaper mics standing up. If you're using them up close and personal, the off-axis response is not so important. Cheers.
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SDC Clips
Aug 10, 2018 11:07:24 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ragan on Aug 10, 2018 11:07:24 GMT -6
I was my usual 18” or so off the neck/body joint. Cool. Yeah, that's in the zone where it's off axis is not so important. Getting further back is where the men get separated from the boys so to speak. Still, good to hear the cheaper mics standing up. If you're using them up close and personal, the off-axis response is not so important. Cheers. Yeah my room is small and dead. It doesn’t offer anything nice that I want to bring into the equation, typically.
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