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Post by Guitar on Jan 12, 2018 16:53:39 GMT -6
I bet there's less than 10 dB of noise floor difference in any case. It could become splitting hairs in a typical mix situation.
It looks to me, like Warm put the power transformer very far away from the input transformers (lowest audio signal) and with metal shielding walls as well. So I think they were thinking about this.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 12, 2018 16:55:38 GMT -6
Snark for sure.
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Post by drbill on Jan 12, 2018 17:02:32 GMT -6
One concession to cost that has not come up yet— appears they did not include line input transformers, FWIW. I wonder if the Heritage Elite did the same? Also it has an internal power supply. I really don't know enough about the subject to weigh in, but the BAE website says, "When power supplies are built into the same chassis as the audio circuitry, nearby audio paths are susceptible to nasty magnetic fields radiated from the transformers, which adds noise and hum. Additionally, the preamp’s components are subject to extra heat generated from transformers, regulators, and rectifiers—and as we all know, heat is the enemy of electronics. It causes unwanted changes in operational parameters and premature component failure." I have no idea of the validity of this scientifically. If others have opinions/facts concerning the science I'd be interested in knowing about it.That being said, my Vintech clone (4-1073i's) has an internal power supply, while my API 3124 is internal- and both are quiet to me. One has EQ and the other doesn't though. The only EQ I have is a GML 8200 and it has an external power supply as well. I will say that it's nice to drive my four Vintech's from one power supply. I have too many power chords as it is. Internal (inside chassis) power supplies OR External power supplies - (line lump, external supply chassis) can be extremely quiet with proper engineering and attention to detail. That said - with all other things being equal - an external supply has a better chance of being quieter. IMO, my $0.02, etc..
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Post by drbill on Jan 12, 2018 17:05:06 GMT -6
I bet there's less than 10 dB of noise floor difference in any case. There are many situations where 10dB is HUGE. I have no idea in this case whether it's significant or not - or even accurate, but 10dB of higher noise floor is a major issue for me.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 12, 2018 17:32:53 GMT -6
I bet there's less than 10 dB of noise floor difference in any case. There are many situations where 10dB is HUGE. I have no idea in this case whether it's significant or not - or even accurate, but 10dB of higher noise floor is a major issue for me. Yeah it's unkown... Like you said, maybe even less... but your point is taken.
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Post by notneeson on Jan 12, 2018 17:37:07 GMT -6
One concession to cost that has not come up yet— appears they did not include line input transformers, FWIW. I wonder if the Heritage Elite did the same? Also it has an internal power supply. I really don't know enough about the subject to weigh in, but the BAE website says, "When power supplies are built into the same chassis as the audio circuitry, nearby audio paths are susceptible to nasty magnetic fields radiated from the transformers, which adds noise and hum. Additionally, the preamp’s components are subject to extra heat generated from transformers, regulators, and rectifiers—and as we all know, heat is the enemy of electronics. It causes unwanted changes in operational parameters and premature component failure." I have no idea of the validity of this scientifically. If others have opinions/facts concerning the science I'd be interested in knowing about it. That being said, my Vintech clone (4-1073i's) has an internal power supply, while my API 3124 is internal- and both are quiet to me. One has EQ and the other doesn't though. The only EQ I have is a GML 8200 and it has an external power supply as well. I will say that it's nice to drive my four Vintech's from one power supply. I have too many power chords as it is. Same— I have vintage, professional grade mic pres racked up here with both internal and external PSUs. (Specifically Spectra Sonics and Quad Eight). Both work great, although I use them differently as they differ in gain quite a bit.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 12, 2018 19:53:15 GMT -6
Best to move on with grace. Yeah, you could.....but the Grace's sound nothing like a 1073. and you know, my daughter Grace: always just sounds like her anyways !
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 12, 2018 19:58:33 GMT -6
Oh wow. I did not read it that way at all. I thought he was saying “I guess you could swap in _______, if anything, though I don’t see the point”. Since he was replying to Rocinante’s comment that nothing needing upgrading. I wonder which interpretation is correct. Check out his other recent posts about the new Warm 1073 stuff here and on GS. It will paint a picture. There is a little more bad blood in the background here than I will go into: unfortunate though !
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Post by Quint on Jan 12, 2018 20:42:12 GMT -6
Check out his other recent posts about the new Warm 1073 stuff here and on GS. It will paint a picture. There is a little more bad blood in the background here than I will go into: unfortunate though ! Yeah, I figured there was some sort of bad blood thing going on there. I had to wonder if this all somehow tied into the back to back release dates of these two products. It seemed very "coincidental"....
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 12, 2018 21:40:05 GMT -6
Thereby hangs a tale
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Post by Quint on Jan 12, 2018 22:01:01 GMT -6
Thereby hangs a tale Well, that story is probably best left out of this thread. No reason to muddy it up when we could just talk more about the WA273. I think I'll be getting one later this year.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 12, 2018 22:15:01 GMT -6
Agreed:) Yes , I’ll be going for the wa2 73.
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Post by gouge on Jan 12, 2018 22:26:08 GMT -6
I was wondering why you guys picked the wa over the aml 500
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Post by Quint on Jan 12, 2018 22:37:44 GMT -6
I was wondering why you guys picked the wa over the aml 500 Well it's nearly $500 cheaper for two channels, plus I like the idea of having the extra HF points on the WA273. I mean, I still want to hear some positive user reviews before I'll likely pull the trigger, but I'm leaning towards the WA over all other contenders at the moment.
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Post by ragan on Jan 13, 2018 0:17:44 GMT -6
Oh wow. I did not read it that way at all. I thought he was saying “I guess you could swap in _______, if anything, though I don’t see the point”. Since he was replying to Rocinante’s comment that nothing needing upgrading. I wonder which interpretation is correct. Check out his other recent posts about the new Warm 1073 stuff here and on GS. It will paint a picture. Ehhh. I read that stuff. I interpret what Chad is saying differently from you. I don't think any real shade is being thrown at all. Anyway. No need to muck around in gossipy stuff here, just wanted to respond briefly. To each his own.
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Post by cdkelly on Jan 13, 2018 1:06:40 GMT -6
Check out his other recent posts about the new Warm 1073 stuff here and on GS. It will paint a picture. Ehhh. I read that stuff. I interpret what Chad is saying differently from you. I don't think any real shade is being thrown at all. Anyway. No need to muck around in gossipy stuff here, just wanted to respond briefly. To each his own. Right, and thank you, Ragan, I wasn't really trying to throw shade at anyone, and didn't mean to irk Quint, but understand why it may have been taken in the wrong light and I tried to clarify a little better what I meant in the 'mainstream' forum earlier. All good. I don't have a horse in that race at all... I hand-make my own microphones these days. I'm friends with the Heritage guys (and at least 4 other companies who do Neve reproductions in fact) and I also try to stay on good terms with people I've worked with in the past. There are aspects to the WA versions that I directly worked on, mainly with regard to layout; so obviously I would be only pleased if those choices resonated well with people. I also avidly follow what everyone else is working on at the same time... and this whole area is bound to become more competitive in the coming months and years as more folks try to compete in this range. This is in part because the 'ultra high end' price range of products is just not moving numbers anymore.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 13, 2018 2:54:26 GMT -6
Curious what peeps thoughts are about to eq or not if buying.
I understand people who say the WA isn’t exactly like the 73 and has eq more like I think the 84?. Authentic names aside, how important is the eq to people for tracking and mixing ?
I think the change for the WA eq, makes it more versatile, but if cost is a consideration, first of all I tend not to eq while tracking and try to use mike positioning, pre type and filters to get the sound I want or the closest approximation.
I also have 16 channels of delta deluxe 4 band British EQ and am modding each channel to have a hpf, Harrison like. Also, I have the 2 channel kush electra, which I find very versatile.
Finally, you can’t Send/recieve to the WA eq without to some extent also going back to its pre, which would re-impart some colour to the signal, which may or may not be desirable but I think not in every situation ?
So, I’m thinking for me , just get the WA273: the 2 channel 73 style pre. This will compliment my WA-412 API pres (4) and again the delta provides 16 other British pres. All my channels are getting modded for improved sonics but there is natural console variation in those 16 pres, which I think a good thing: as I have been testing things with my WA-87, I sure like what I am hearing.
So, I feel like ordering the WA2-73 just to get that neve like quality which I don’t have now. My delta has a transformer option but I don’t have them and I understand Warm worked very closely with the transformer company to ensure it’s 73 pre is really dialed in to specs.
Thoughts about to eq or not to eq ? Thx !
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Post by wiz on Jan 13, 2018 3:08:51 GMT -6
Curious what peeps thoughts are about to eq or not if buying. I understand people who say the WA isn’t exactly like the 73 and has eq more like I think the 84?. Authentic names aside, how important is the eq to people for tracking and mixing ? I think the change for the WA eq, makes it more versatile, but if cost is a consideration, first of all I tend not to eq while tracking and try to use mike positioning, pre type and filters to get the sound I want or the closest approximation. I also have 16 channels of delta deluxe 4 band British EQ and am modding each channel to have a hpf, Harrison like. Also, I have the 2 channel kush electra, which I find very versatile. Finally, you can’t Send/recieve to the WA eq without to some extent also going back to its pre, which would re-impart some colour to the signal, which may or may not be desirable but I think not in every situation ? So, I’m thinking for me , just get the WA273: the 2 channel 73 style pre. This will compliment my WA-412 API pres (4) and again the delta provides 16 other British pres. All my channels are getting modded for improved sonics but there is natural console variation in those 16 pres, which I think a good thing: as I have been testing things with my WA-87, I sure like what I am hearing. So, I feel like ordering the WA2-73 just to get that neve like quality which I don’t have now. My delta has a transformer option but I don’t have them and I understand Warm worked very closely with the transformer company to ensure it’s 73 pre is really dialed in to specs. Thoughts about to eq or not to eq ? Thx ! I would wait, see how you get on with the modded delta EQ.....see how the Kush and those do or don't work for you. Then after a while decide. cheers Wiz
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Post by pope on Jan 13, 2018 3:35:42 GMT -6
I was wondering why you guys picked the wa over the aml 500 Because most people nowadays judge by the eye...
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Post by subspace on Jan 13, 2018 9:51:39 GMT -6
Curious what peeps thoughts are about to eq or not if buying. I also have 16 channels of delta deluxe 4 band British EQ and am modding each channel to have a hpf, Harrison like. Also, I have the 2 channel kush electra, which I find very versatile. Finally, you can’t Send/recieve to the WA eq without to some extent also going back to its pre, which would re-impart some colour to the signal, which may or may not be desirable but I think not in every situation ? So, I’m thinking for me , just get the WA273: the 2 channel 73 style pre. This will compliment my WA-412 API pres (4) and again the delta provides 16 other British pres. All my channels are getting modded for improved sonics but there is natural console variation in those 16 pres, which I think a good thing: as I have been testing things with my WA-87, I sure like what I am hearing. So, I feel like ordering the WA2-73 just to get that neve like quality which I don’t have now. My delta has a transformer option but I don’t have them and I understand Warm worked very closely with the transformer company to ensure it’s 73 pre is really dialed in to specs. Thoughts about to eq or not to eq ? Thx ! My 2 cents. I've got 16 channels of 4-band EQ on the Trident, swept mid-bands, fixed high and low shelves, fixed HPF. I also have a pair of ACMP84s and a pair of EQP-KTs. The console EQ is cool for mid-range tweaks across guitars, drums, etc, but the 1084 and Pultec EQs bring something entirely different to the party when it comes to sculpting the lows and highs. I actually kind of resent my preamps that lack line input/EQ come mix time.
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Post by drbill on Jan 13, 2018 10:45:47 GMT -6
"Authentic names aside, how important is the eq to people for tracking and mixing ?" For what it's worth - I think that vintage guru's and guys who know how this stuff works and how to build and design it (Colin, Dan, etc.) will tell you that the EQ is an integral part of the sound due to the way it loads the circuitry - even when you're not using it. Hence the valid argument that a 1073 isn't a 1073 without the EQ. But we really don't want to go down that road again do we?? Haha. Manufacturers incessant use of nomenclature to sell a product that isn't what the number says it is? FYI - a 1073 without EQ is for all intents and purposes a 1290, but it's all just numbers, right? So....it all depends on how "close" is "close" and where you want to fall on the continuum.
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Post by Quint on Jan 13, 2018 10:52:22 GMT -6
Curious what peeps thoughts are about to eq or not if buying. I understand people who say the WA isn’t exactly like the 73 and has eq more like I think the 84?. Authentic names aside, how important is the eq to people for tracking and mixing ? I think the change for the WA eq, makes it more versatile, but if cost is a consideration, first of all I tend not to eq while tracking and try to use mike positioning, pre type and filters to get the sound I want or the closest approximation. I also have 16 channels of delta deluxe 4 band British EQ and am modding each channel to have a hpf, Harrison like. Also, I have the 2 channel kush electra, which I find very versatile. Finally, you can’t Send/recieve to the WA eq without to some extent also going back to its pre, which would re-impart some colour to the signal, which may or may not be desirable but I think not in every situation ? So, I’m thinking for me , just get the WA273: the 2 channel 73 style pre. This will compliment my WA-412 API pres (4) and again the delta provides 16 other British pres. All my channels are getting modded for improved sonics but there is natural console variation in those 16 pres, which I think a good thing: as I have been testing things with my WA-87, I sure like what I am hearing. So, I feel like ordering the WA2-73 just to get that neve like quality which I don’t have now. My delta has a transformer option but I don’t have them and I understand Warm worked very closely with the transformer company to ensure it’s 73 pre is really dialed in to specs. Thoughts about to eq or not to eq ? Thx ! The EQ is THE main reason I'm interested in the WA273 and/or the new Heritage 1073 pre/eq. All the other Neve style pres I have don't have the eq, just the preamp section. I've been wanting one with eq in the same box for the reasons Bill mentioned above. The 273 especially checks the right boxes for me. If the sound is there, I'm probably in for one.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 13, 2018 11:38:08 GMT -6
All good points and you hit the nail : is the pre by itself going to get you where you want to go or just jump to the chase and buy the pre with EQ and be done ? As I am now leaning back to get the eq, I have modded 4 of my 16 deltas and added the hpf, taking me about 1.5 hours per, but not rushing, want to do it once right, last 3 have worked perfectly first time got my build process dialed in !
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Post by ariel on Jan 13, 2018 17:19:22 GMT -6
One concession to cost that has not come up yet— appears they did not include line input transformers, FWIW. I wonder if the Heritage Elite did the same? Also it has an internal power supply. I really don't know enough about the subject to weigh in, but the BAE website says, "When power supplies are built into the same chassis as the audio circuitry, nearby audio paths are susceptible to nasty magnetic fields radiated from the transformers, which adds noise and hum. Additionally, the preamp’s components are subject to extra heat generated from transformers, regulators, and rectifiers—and as we all know, heat is the enemy of electronics. It causes unwanted changes in operational parameters and premature component failure." I have no idea of the validity of this scientifically. If others have opinions/facts concerning the science I'd be interested in knowing about it. That being said, my Vintech clone (4-1073i's) has an internal power supply, while my API 3124 is internal- and both are quiet to me. One has EQ and the other doesn't though. The only EQ I have is a GML 8200 and it has an external power supply as well. I will say that it's nice to drive my four Vintech's from one power supply. I have too many power chords as it is. My Focusrite ISA110LE's have built in supplies and my BAE's don't, the BAE's are noisier once I start to compress and eq them.
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Post by pope on Jan 13, 2018 17:25:08 GMT -6
Are there any similarities in topology between the ISA and the BAE? I think you're comparing two totally different units.
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