|
Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 5, 2017 14:19:29 GMT -6
Thanks drbill, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. As you said, it's a world that I'm very unfamiliar with and I think it's interesting to hear about. I wasn't aware that the composer generally handles all of the production from start to finish and licenses their music. I had always assumed that they were hired by the production company to compose the pieces, a different team would put them together, and another team would mix. I didn't realize that it is generally a one man show from start to finished product. I care for the reasons that I already mentioned. I like knowing what sort of productions people are working on. I think knowing what kind of background people have is important for this type of dialog. What AM I doing? Look at my signature. I mostly run live sound on jazz and blues gigs. I work on occasional rock/indie/folk studio productions. Mostly just a hack. "I don't recall ever saying my opinion carries more weight than yours." This is true. I will put you in the category of dudes who state opinion as though they are fact though. It's not what you say, it's the way you say it. It's probably just a case of subtlety lost on the internet rather than speaking face to face. Anyway, thank you for clearing some things up. Really appreciate it.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jun 5, 2017 14:34:05 GMT -6
Thanks drbill , that's exactly what I wanted to hear. As you said, it's a world that I'm very unfamiliar with and I think it's interesting to hear about. I wasn't aware that the composer generally handles all of the production from start to finish and licenses their music. I had always assumed that they were hired by the production company to compose the pieces, a different team would put them together, and another team would mix. I didn't realize that it is generally a one man show from start to finished product. It goes all kinds of different ways. Hired, commissioned, or licensed. Works all different ways. Many times - especially on large features - there is absolutely a "team" effort. One person cannot physically handle it. Sometimes I'm wearing writing shoes, other times mixing shoes. I've chosen to leave a lot of that hectic part of my career in LA. These days I'm enjoying a more fulfilling, relaxed (kinda...) work life - although Disney seems to have found and followed me over..... Starting my own record company, finishing up some personal projects, writing more for libraries these days than for features - which can be mind numbingly brutal.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Jun 5, 2017 15:27:14 GMT -6
We all try to be egalitarian and respectful of a range of opinions in a conversation, but I think it does matter who we are and what we've done and/or what we're doing because it brings perspective to a conversation. There may be no fine line between sharing and name dropping, boasting, and the dick measuring that can follow, so it's even more critical that we respect the background of others and the experience and expertise they bring to the table. No, we're not looking for clips with every comment, but as we all know "Music expresses what can not be put into words." I may be using the quote in a slightly out of context fashion because often the conversation is not so much about the music as it is about the technologies and methodologies we use to capture and preserve it. Which brings me to a thought concerning why folks post here in the first place.
Some who post here are professionals, from the budding to the consummate and experienced varieties. I think that for the most part they realize that you have to give to receive, and not in a tit for tat way. Yes, you can learn from lurking, but participating in a conversation with your ideas and opinions guides and invites appropriate alternate opinions and even disagreement, which broadens your knowledge in turn.
Some who post here are heavily experienced professionals (a number whom are apparently retired or semi-retired). They may be interested in learning a bit, but they've seen it all and are not necessarily here to have their opinions change. I can only hope that they post here mostly to inform, and even help, with the goal that in the process they keep alive some of the knowledge they've acquired.
Regardless of what category folks fall in, I completely respect any reticence they have to post personal examples of their work. Their reasons may be personal or professional in nature, or they may think it has no constructive bearing on the conversation - it doesn't matter. But speaking for hopefully some of us who do not fall in any of the above categories, I find that examples speak volumes. I love hearing the work of those who post here not just because it furthers and gives depth to the conversation, but because it gives us all an extra window into who we are as producers/engineers/designers/diy enthusiasts/musicians/artists/whatever, and that brings the site alive to me.
There ..I'm done spewing.
|
|
|
Post by joseph on Jun 5, 2017 15:32:53 GMT -6
I see a bunch of BIll on IMDB, but don't really know what that means. Why are you letting that bother you so much? Why do you find the need to discuss "me"? Why do you continually find the need to bust my chops? I do everything you mentioned in your post, and then some. That's what guys who do what I do - i.e.: TV/Film composers - that's what we DO. I'm not unique in it. We work with musicians, we work with VSTi's, we do live drum sessions, we use loops, we deal with singers, we do instrumental music. We do whatever it takes to make the picture be the best it can be - whatever the client and whatever the music requires. From your comments it seems like it's a world you are very unfamiliar with. The definition of a TV/Film composer is someone who writes "background music" for in show use - and although I do or have done almost every job in music, that's how I would primarily categorize myself in 2017 - as a composer. Sometimes its featured, mostly it's disposable - and buried. I have no control over either. Sometimes it's commissioned, sometimes it's licensed and I have no idea where it's headed. Sometimes you hear what I do almost every day on radio/TV, other times (mostly) it's buried so far under some TV show that they could have used a polka band and it wouldn't matter. Am I bummed that it's not front and center where I can point you to a Billboard Top 40 album? Hardly. Can you discern what kind of reverb I used? Probably not. I'd be pretty impressed if you could. Is there a soundtrack album? Rarely. Why do I do it? Because it makes me a good living doing what I WANT to do, I get to buy cool gear, and I get to live off royalties and use my time as I see fit. i.e.: I get to make a nice living writing and producing music that I want to produce. Are you doing that? What ARE you doing? By definition, I have to turn in finals, so that means I mix and often master the music I send in. That makes me a mixer / mastering engineer too (although I master ONLY because of time issues, and sometimes money issues. I hate mastering.) By definition, doing all the above makes me "the producer" as well. I've been know to do music editing as well. In the past I've been heavily into the studio musician world in LA. I've been an orchestrator, an arranger, and guess what - I take out the trash as well. I've been awarded a grammy, I've written music for an Academy Award winning film. I've got music in over 1500 episodic TV shows. I've worked for Disney, Warner Bros., Universal, New Line, Amblin, and virtually every major network in the US, and most of the cable networks. So what? My opinion is no different, or no more valid than yours. It's our OWN opinions. Nothing more. Mine doesn't have to match up with yours. We're each unique individuals with unique musical esthetic's that are evidently vastly different. If someone wants to attribute more credibility to my opinion due to my past musical experiences over yours or someone else's, that's THEIR prerogative. Not mine. I don't recall ever saying my opinion carries more weight than yours. Hey, I don't care about your credits. Why do you care so much about mine? You've obviously already found them on IMDb. I'm not going to post clips every time I make a comment, and I think that's your major gripe. WHY don't I post clips when you demand it? Mostly because of three reasons : because I can't legally, or; because of the obvious time and hassle constraints, or; mostly, mostly - because there's people like you out on the internet who are going to bring a wazoo load of ***** negativity into my life if I do, and my productivity is increased when I try to stay positive. That's the bottom line. So.... Maybe let's just get over it and agree to live and let live in our own separate musical universes? Just answer us this, are you a real Dr. or not?
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Jun 5, 2017 15:36:04 GMT -6
dandeurloo, yep I'm familiar with them. I can't find Jim on either and I see a bunch of BIll on IMDB, but don't really know what that means. composer: additional music To me, that means that he wrote some background music in the show/movie. Are they actually his full blown productions in the video or just stuff that he wrote that's being recut elsewhere. Did he fully produce them? Did he mix them? Are they using real instruments or VI's? Is he pushing out big Pimp Dawg tracks like ChaseUTB or new age jazz like drsax or ethereal background music. I'm trying to put their opinions about gear into perspective. I'm personally not using VI's in my productions. I'm not against them, but that's not the kind of stuff I do. If they happen to do all instrumental music using VI's, their toolset and gear selections/uses will be very different from mine. I just don't understand why someone will talk a big game and say "turn on the Disney channel if you want to hear my work", but can't tell me if they're mixing foley or writing the hit songs from Frozen. Also, FWIW, I'm nobody. I can't make a living mixing. I'm not trying to come across as better than anyone here. I'm sure a bunch of you cats probably think my mixes/music suck. At least you can check my stuff out and form your own opinions. Well, maybe this'll be helpful and give you and ChaseUTB the chance to hear the Bricasti in a totally different context. I don't produce new age jazz... most of the contemporary jazz I do comes from funk, pop, R&B and soul. Contemporary jazz is quite a bit different from New Age. But I have produced many different styles from jazz to rock to R&B and more. With that said, here's a song I produced and mixed 5 years ago for an independent rock band from Chicago/Milwaukee. It's hard rock combined with pop and rap elements. I had nothing to do with the video. I produced and mixed the song. As a cool side note, the drummer who is a good friend of mine, went on to be Prince's drummer the last few years before Prince passed away. Anyway, the Bricasti is the main verb in this song. It's the only verb on the drums. I set up a patch that sounded great on the drums and then most of the mix elements got a taste of it too. That single Bricasti patch was used on Drums, Vox, Guitars, Rap, and several other mix elements. The YouTube compression makes a very compressed mix even more so... but feel free and check it out. You may dig the sounds or not... but here's a chance to hear the Bricasti in a different context than what you might expect.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 5, 2017 16:46:34 GMT -6
dandeurloo, yep I'm familiar with them. I can't find Jim on either and I see a bunch of BIll on IMDB, but don't really know what that means. composer: additional music To me, that means that he wrote some background music in the show/movie. Are they actually his full blown productions in the video or just stuff that he wrote that's being recut elsewhere. Did he fully produce them? Did he mix them? Are they using real instruments or VI's? Is he pushing out big Pimp Dawg tracks like ChaseUTB or new age jazz like drsax or ethereal background music. I'm trying to put their opinions about gear into perspective. I'm personally not using VI's in my productions. I'm not against them, but that's not the kind of stuff I do. If they happen to do all instrumental music using VI's, their toolset and gear selections/uses will be very different from mine. I just don't understand why someone will talk a big game and say "turn on the Disney channel if you want to hear my work", but can't tell me if they're mixing foley or writing the hit songs from Frozen. Also, FWIW, I'm nobody. I can't make a living mixing. I'm not trying to come across as better than anyone here. I'm sure a bunch of you cats probably think my mixes/music suck. At least you can check my stuff out and form your own opinions. Well, maybe this'll be helpful and give you and ChaseUTB the chance to hear the Bricasti in a totally different context. I don't produce new age jazz... most of the contemporary jazz I do comes from funk, pop, R&B and soul. Contemporary jazz is quite a bit different from New Age. But I have produced many different styles from jazz to rock to R&B and more. With that said, here's a song I produced and mixed 5 years ago for an independent rock band from Chicago/Milwaukee. It's hard rock combined with pop and rap elements. I had nothing to do with the video. I produced and mixed. As a cool side note, the drummer who is a good friend of mine, went on to be Prince's drummer the last few years before Prince passed away. Anyway, the Bricasti is the main verb in this song. It's the only verb on the drums. I set up a patch that sounded great on the drums and then most of the mix elements got a taste of it too. That single Bricasti patch was used on Drums, Vox, Guitars, Rap, and several other mix elements. The YouTube compression makes a very compressed mix even more so... but feel free and check it out. You may dig the sounds or not... but here's a chance to hear the Bricasti in a different context than what you might expect. Damnit...now I have to buy it again.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jun 5, 2017 17:17:18 GMT -6
Why are you letting that bother you so much? Why do you find the need to discuss "me"? Why do you continually find the need to bust my chops? I do everything you mentioned in your post, and then some. That's what guys who do what I do - i.e.: TV/Film composers - that's what we DO. I'm not unique in it. We work with musicians, we work with VSTi's, we do live drum sessions, we use loops, we deal with singers, we do instrumental music. We do whatever it takes to make the picture be the best it can be - whatever the client and whatever the music requires. From your comments it seems like it's a world you are very unfamiliar with. The definition of a TV/Film composer is someone who writes "background music" for in show use - and although I do or have done almost every job in music, that's how I would primarily categorize myself in 2017 - as a composer. Sometimes its featured, mostly it's disposable - and buried. I have no control over either. Sometimes it's commissioned, sometimes it's licensed and I have no idea where it's headed. Sometimes you hear what I do almost every day on radio/TV, other times (mostly) it's buried so far under some TV show that they could have used a polka band and it wouldn't matter. Am I bummed that it's not front and center where I can point you to a Billboard Top 40 album? Hardly. Can you discern what kind of reverb I used? Probably not. I'd be pretty impressed if you could. Is there a soundtrack album? Rarely. Why do I do it? Because it makes me a good living doing what I WANT to do, I get to buy cool gear, and I get to live off royalties and use my time as I see fit. i.e.: I get to make a nice living writing and producing music that I want to produce. Are you doing that? What ARE you doing? By definition, I have to turn in finals, so that means I mix and often master the music I send in. That makes me a mixer / mastering engineer too (although I master ONLY because of time issues, and sometimes money issues. I hate mastering.) By definition, doing all the above makes me "the producer" as well. I've been know to do music editing as well. In the past I've been heavily into the studio musician world in LA. I've been an orchestrator, an arranger, and guess what - I take out the trash as well. I've been awarded a grammy, I've written music for an Academy Award winning film. I've got music in over 1500 episodic TV shows. I've worked for Disney, Warner Bros., Universal, New Line, Amblin, and virtually every major network in the US, and most of the cable networks. So what? My opinion is no different, or no more valid than yours. It's our OWN opinions. Nothing more. Mine doesn't have to match up with yours. We're each unique individuals with unique musical esthetic's that are evidently vastly different. If someone wants to attribute more credibility to my opinion due to my past musical experiences over yours or someone else's, that's THEIR prerogative. Not mine. I don't recall ever saying my opinion carries more weight than yours. Hey, I don't care about your credits. Why do you care so much about mine? You've obviously already found them on IMDb. I'm not going to post clips every time I make a comment, and I think that's your major gripe. WHY don't I post clips when you demand it? Mostly because of three reasons : because I can't legally, or; because of the obvious time and hassle constraints, or; mostly, mostly - because there's people like you out on the internet who are going to bring a wazoo load of ***** negativity into my life if I do, and my productivity is increased when I try to stay positive. That's the bottom line. So.... Maybe let's just get over it and agree to live and let live in our own separate musical universes? Just answer us this, are you a real Dr. or not? It's a nickname that stuck. I've mentioned it many times here. I was what I always called "arranger / band leader" for a UK artist when she toured the US. She - and her manager - always called me "the MD". i.e. : Musical Director. Back then, that term was kind of new. At least it was in LA. All the guys in the band found it amusing, so they all started calling me "doc". drBill. Etc. The nickname stuck. I still run across those guys today who are scattered far and wide across the country and the first thing out of their mouth....."Hey Doc!!!" So that's it. The MD turned into doc, turned into drBill.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jun 5, 2017 17:17:27 GMT -6
Cool. Kind of a heavier 311, Disturbed kind of hybrid influence. I would love to see those guys play in a crowded bar.
|
|
|
Post by dandeurloo on Jun 5, 2017 17:56:15 GMT -6
Do you guys know about Allmusic.com? That is a good place to check folks out. Or IMDB for guys who do film stuff. I do that all the time. I can't get Allmusic to list a single thing I've been involved with. I've sent multiple emails - all with no response or changes. You or the record label has to send in physical disc with the info. That is the only way they do it.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jun 5, 2017 18:02:07 GMT -6
I can't get Allmusic to list a single thing I've been involved with. I've sent multiple emails - all with no response or changes. You or the record label has to send in physical disc with the info. That is the only way they do it. They don't do digital only releases?
|
|
|
Post by dandeurloo on Jun 5, 2017 18:10:32 GMT -6
You or the record label has to send in physical disc with the info. That is the only way they do it. They don't do digital only releases? They do, but it has to have a barcode and then all the info needs to be sent in by the band, label or producer in order to get it approved. Most all of my credits have showed up without issue. I think that the labels send it in or something? I have seen a few guys with multiple listings. I know Classical is always different listings. So if you recorded a Classical record as DrBill it would show up separate DrBill from your Pop recordings. No way to combine them for some reason. Well, at least that is what a guy at Allmusic told me a few years back.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 5, 2017 18:20:27 GMT -6
Man, I'm listening to that track on my iMac, and there's a naturalness to the reverb, where it's not obvious at all, yet the track just sounds great. Ugh.. Last night I was adding up what I could get for my compressors and EQP-1A, just thinking if that would get me a Bricasti, and the answer was.. no, not yet.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jun 5, 2017 18:33:21 GMT -6
They don't do digital only releases? They do, but it has to have a barcode and then all the info needs to be sent in by the band, label or producer in order to get it approved. Most all of my credits have showed up without issue. I think that the labels send it in or something? I have seen a few guys with multiple listings. I know Classical is always different listings. So if you recorded a Classical record as DrBill it would show up separate DrBill from your Pop recordings. No way to combine them for some reason. Well, at least that is what a guy at Allmusic told me a few years back. Good info dan - thx.!
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 5, 2017 18:37:08 GMT -6
Man, I'm listening to that track on my iMac, and there's a naturalness to the reverb, where it's not obvious at all, yet the track just sounds great. Ugh.. Last night I was adding up what I could get for my compressors and EQP-1A, just thinking if that would get me a Bricasti, and the answer was.. no, not yet. $300 in acoustic treatment will be the best investment you can make for your studio, not a Bricasti. Plus you don't have sell your other HW π€ π€
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jun 5, 2017 19:02:48 GMT -6
Man, I'm listening to that track on my iMac, and there's a naturalness to the reverb, where it's not obvious at all, yet the track just sounds great. Ugh.. Last night I was adding up what I could get for my compressors and EQP-1A, just thinking if that would get me a Bricasti, and the answer was.. no, not yet. $300 in acoustic treatment will be the best investment you can make for your studio, not a Bricasti. Plus you don't have sell your other HW π€ π€ My motto lately is grow, keep, no more shrink or trade.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 5, 2017 19:24:45 GMT -6
I can't get Allmusic to list a single thing I've been involved with. I've sent multiple emails - all with no response or changes. You or the record label has to send in physical disc with the info. That is the only way they do it. Good Lord, that's ignorant.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,937
|
Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2017 19:28:46 GMT -6
You or the record label has to send in physical disc with the info. Β That is the only way they do it. Β Good Lord, that's ignorant. That is the age we live in !
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 5, 2017 19:32:01 GMT -6
I sent corrections in a while back. There are several songs (I think the last time I looked) that lists all the damn co-writers but me. So they got that info from somewhere. Pisses me off.
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 5, 2017 20:04:15 GMT -6
jcoutu1 you are a not a hack bro π€ Get outta here with that nonsense ... Ball buster ... maybe ....but hack .... F no...
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 5, 2017 20:13:04 GMT -6
Yep, jcoutou can do his typical "hack" job on my tracks anytime and I'd consider myself lucky!
|
|
|
Post by noah shain on Jun 5, 2017 22:44:31 GMT -6
Allmusic doesn't have 1/10 of my credits up. Neither does IMDb. I don't even have all my credits up on my own site! Hahaha. My wiki is a joke too. Whatever. My credit is usually right on the records I do. People will see that when they're reading the liner notes!ππ
As far as reverb goes...if I've learned anything in the last 20 years of doing this stuff it's that 1 piece of gear will NOT make your records sound "pro". If you use a bricasti without good reverb technique it'll sound goofy like every other reverb does when you use it poorly.
But I want one BAD. I spent over an hour tweaking that damned slate reverb bricasti thing and my mix still sounded crap. Must be I need the real one.
C'mon @johnkenn let's buy bricastis!!!!
We'll finish our mixes so fast we'll have time to update our credits!!
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 6, 2017 1:01:23 GMT -6
Is bricasti mono or stereo? Or multi mono and stereo? Now that would be cool... what exactly does Bricasti do besides " space " ( bricasti noob here )
I thought Wikipedia was a collective knowledge that may or may not be fact but mostly true π I read liner notes .... wait a minute .... can I stream liner notes π€ π€¦ββοΈ? I just had to " ask " to be credited on a mic and master. Over 400 people had viewed the link before I was credited. That like 1 or 2 possible clients I coulda got π€·ββοΈππ
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:59:22 GMT -6
wiz's console mix of Lay Down had this amazing sense of space to it. So much so that I asked how he used his reverbs to get that effect. His answer was Bricasti. Now align this with svart's advice about buying quality gear once instead of crap twice, particularly with the resale values holding as they do, then a s/h M7 is a great investment if you're competing in the higher end of the audio world (only ever seen one s/h over this way, was sold in no time). Folks like me have to settle for the MX300 lol.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jun 6, 2017 2:23:39 GMT -6
wiz 's console mix of Lay Down had this amazing sense of space to it. So much so that I asked how he used his reverbs to get that effect. His answer was Bricasti. Now align this with svart 's advice about buying quality gear once instead of crap twice, particularly with the resale values holding as they do, then a s/h M7 is a great investment if you're competing in the higher end of the audio world (only ever seen one s/h over this way, was sold in no time). Folks like me have to settle for the MX300 lol. I don't drink or smoke...and eat very little junk food....that's where bricasti money can come from 8) cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by keymod on Jun 6, 2017 3:27:22 GMT -6
Yep, jcoutou can do his typical "hack" job on my tracks anytime and I'd consider myself lucky! Amen to that. I wish he could be my house engineer.
|
|