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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 1, 2017 12:53:43 GMT -6
Would love to hear some of these #1 hits... I have tried to look up Dr Bill but without knowing his actual name I can't find the work. Would love to hear how the bricasti is worlds better than Plugin's...
I know I would defend my bricasti too if I spent that much On it ... Wonder how many bricasti users would pass ABX between the HW and SW ( I know there is not a 1:1 SW version of bricasti )
Not trying to offend anyone ...
Reverberate the positive Irie Vibes Mon 😤
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Post by keymod on Jun 1, 2017 13:03:24 GMT -6
The problem with the M7 for me is that , since the M10 is so frickin cool I would have to buy that also thereby doubling the cost to almost five grand.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 1, 2017 13:05:28 GMT -6
Some of us put our money where our mouth is and bought the expensive hardware. There is no substitute for the M7. You would need 10 core 7 Intel processors to attempt to keep up with the M7's data rates. Your little PC cannot do that. Hey Moneybags, got any samples of mixes you've done with that M7? ...that's what I thought. Hahaha too much coffee 😂😎😤 not enough Irie
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 1, 2017 13:07:56 GMT -6
And there's no need to get in a pissing match over it all. But there are some heavy hitters on this board. Do some research and check out some discogs from some of the cats here. I'm certain Jim Williams has some killer sounding mixes using the M7. His reputation is somewhat legendary in the audio industry as one who clearly understands what it takes to make something sonically superior. My Bricasti has served me well with mixes - 10 to 15 #1 Billboard hits using the Bricasti and more on the chart than I could list, mostly contemporary jazz stuff. I'm not gonna take time to start posting links to it all, but using quality tools does make a difference. The M7 has benefited me greatly. And my resume pales in comparison to some. Check out drbill 's resume for TV and film. It's staggering. He does more in a year than most do in a career. I've checked out your stuff and it sounds great. You've posted links in the past. Not making jabs at you at all. "Some of us put our money where our mouth is and bought the expensive hardware." That was a dick comment and I was calling him out for it. That's all. If you're certain Jim has some killer mixes with it, feel free to point me in that direction. I can't find anything that I'm positive he's done, other than him playing guitar with some buds (which I'm sure he doesn't want posted).
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 1, 2017 13:10:56 GMT -6
Hey Moneybags, got any samples of mixes you've done with that M7? ...that's what I thought. Hahaha too much coffee 😂😎😤 not enough Irie I've from New England. We're not Arie up here, as much as I try. If we're getting Arie up here though, check out this mix. Nasty. Too early for a Bricasti though (I think).
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 1, 2017 13:16:53 GMT -6
jcoutu1There we go positive vibes my man 🤠Great song added to my chill soul collection to vibe too. I thought Bricasti was New England / Boston or maybe Maine? Monitors Bro .... Monitors ... Focus 😀😆
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 1, 2017 14:04:15 GMT -6
I've used a Bricasti plenty of times. It's great.
All I gave was a great review of a software plugin that not many folks seem to use much...
I've staring at an emt140 controler on top of the meter bridge of the console I'm working on today. The 480 and 960 are sitting right next to it. The 250 is in the back of the room. And you know what, sometimes altiverb works great instead of those others. :gasp:
The holier than thou attitude just gets real old sometimes. It generally isn't on this board but it can tend to creep it's way in occasionally.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 1, 2017 14:47:07 GMT -6
My friend had an Altiverb and used it on his albums all the time. I thought it was excellent, extremely clean. I would've just bought the Altiverb when I was getting started 5 years back, but it was a bit too pricey and I was unfamiliar with DAW's at that time. Later on, I bought the $400 Relab XL480 because I was familiar with Lexicon's sound and it was very very close. Today I would take that $400, add some more and buy a PCM 70 or MX300 or even the Eventide H9.
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Post by wiz on Jun 1, 2017 17:31:35 GMT -6
The thing about the Bricasti, is that it does "depth" in a way I have not heard any plug in do.... and I have used/owned most of the really good plugs that do verb/spaces that have come out over the last 15 or more years. (don't mean to come off as a wanker, just saying I have used em, and bought them)
For a person who essentially has to close mic everything, the Bricasti is a revelation as it can tie all those disparate elements into a cohesive space.
I used to do similar things, with multiple instances of really good convolution reverbs and UAD plate.
I would have at least 3 busses set up for verbs, a small space, a larger space, and a plate.
Each track would get put through those verbs via aux sends in varying amounts, the small room to tie the elements together , the large room (often a hall) to give height to this artificial space, and the plate to give the depth.
It worked pretty well, and I did many releases with this approach, it was a bit computer intensive, especially back in the pentium days....
The Bricasti, does all the same sonic trickery for me in an instant.
Now, maybe if you worked in a different way to me, and remember I am mic-ing everything here in the same reasonably smallish room (8m by 3.5m ish, with 2.4m ceiling raked) so I need to sonically tie things together, and I am using all real instruments.
If you were using sampled instruments, midi drums of some sort, and really only recording vocals live, it may not suit you very well ....as say as if you were doing all real instruments.
Also, if you were distance mic-ing everything, and using room microphones etc, perhaps it also would not spin your wheels as hard.
The Bricasti is no doubt expensive... when you price it against a plug in.
There is incredible value for me in the purchase, I saved for a year to get it...
Everyones needs are different, I am no better a studio than anyone else just because I own a Bricasti..... its my winning personality and sense of hygiene that puts me ahead on that front... 8)
If you record real instruments, close mic, and maybe don't have a commercially designed room, its really worth checking out if you can... to see if it will add the sort of value for you that it has for me.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by swurveman on Jun 1, 2017 18:29:28 GMT -6
The thing about the Bricasti, is that it does "depth" in a way I have not heard any plug in do.... and I have used/owned most of the really good plugs that do verb/spaces that have come out over the last 15 or more years. (don't mean to come off as a wanker, just saying I have used em, and bought them) For a person who essentially has to close mic everything, the Bricasti is a revelation as it can tie all those disparate elements into a cohesive space. I used to do similar things, with multiple instances of really good convolution reverbs and UAD plate. I would have at least 3 busses set up for verbs, a small space, a larger space, and a plate. Each track would get put through those verbs via aux sends in varying amounts, the small room to tie the elements together , the large room (often a hall) to give height to this artificial space, and the plate to give the depth. It worked pretty well, and I did many releases with this approach, it was a bit computer intensive, especially back in the pentium days.... The Bricasti, does all the same sonic trickery for me in an instant.cheers Wiz For me to have a small space, a large space and a plate with my Bricasti, I'd have to my Bricasti on an Aux and bounce three times in real time, let alone having to reset the setting on the Bricasti and then tweak the sends. It is definitely way more labor intensive than plugins. I own a Bricasti, but feel (not singling you out Wiz) there's this kind of internet snobbery about it too. It probably existed back in the day with Lexicon. I just listened to a mix done by a famous London engineer for a friend of mine. The mix engineer has one Bricasti, but he's got Lexicons (4) and AMS (2) reverbs and a real EMT plate.
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Post by wiz on Jun 1, 2017 18:37:22 GMT -6
The thing about the Bricasti, is that it does "depth" in a way I have not heard any plug in do.... and I have used/owned most of the really good plugs that do verb/spaces that have come out over the last 15 or more years. (don't mean to come off as a wanker, just saying I have used em, and bought them) For a person who essentially has to close mic everything, the Bricasti is a revelation as it can tie all those disparate elements into a cohesive space. I used to do similar things, with multiple instances of really good convolution reverbs and UAD plate. I would have at least 3 busses set up for verbs, a small space, a larger space, and a plate. Each track would get put through those verbs via aux sends in varying amounts, the small room to tie the elements together , the large room (often a hall) to give height to this artificial space, and the plate to give the depth. It worked pretty well, and I did many releases with this approach, it was a bit computer intensive, especially back in the pentium days.... The Bricasti, does all the same sonic trickery for me in an instant.cheers Wiz For me to have a small space, a large space and a plate with my Bricasti, I'd have to my Bricasti on an Aux and bounce three times in real time, let alone having to reset the setting on the Bricasti and then tweak the sends. It is definitely way more labor intensive than plugins. I own a Bricasti, but feel (not singling you out Wiz) there's this kind of internet snobbery about it too. It probably existed back in the day with Lexicon. I just listened to a mix done by a famous London engineer for a friend of mine. The mix engineer has one Bricasti, but he's got Lexicons (4) and AMS (2) reverbs and a real EMT plate. I only use 1 aux with the Bricasti, it replaces the 3 Auxs I used with plug ins... sorry that wasn't clearer. The Bricasti, can be a bit evangelical... I see that.... in a way I can understand it too, it was such a revelation for me. But, I can see how it can run a bit thin on people. cheers Wiz
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Post by swurveman on Jun 2, 2017 5:22:27 GMT -6
For me to have a small space, a large space and a plate with my Bricasti, I'd have to my Bricasti on an Aux and bounce three times in real time, let alone having to reset the setting on the Bricasti and then tweak the sends. It is definitely way more labor intensive than plugins. I own a Bricasti, but feel (not singling you out Wiz) there's this kind of internet snobbery about it too. It probably existed back in the day with Lexicon. I just listened to a mix done by a famous London engineer for a friend of mine. The mix engineer has one Bricasti, but he's got Lexicons (4) and AMS (2) reverbs and a real EMT plate. I only use 1 aux with the Bricasti, it replaces the 3 Auxs I used with plug ins... sorry that wasn't clearer. The Bricasti, can be a bit evangelical... I see that.... in a way I can understand it too, it was such a revelation for me. But, I can see how it can run a bit thin on people. cheers Wiz Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Wiz, but even though you have it on one Aux, you still have to do a real time bounce at least twice. Or, are you printing while you record?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 2, 2017 8:47:26 GMT -6
And there's no need to get in a pissing match over it all. But there are some heavy hitters on this board. Do some research and check out some discogs from some of the cats here. I'm certain Jim Williams has some killer sounding mixes using the M7. His reputation is somewhat legendary in the audio industry as one who clearly understands what it takes to make something sonically superior. My Bricasti has served me well with mixes - 10 to 15 #1 Billboard hits using the Bricasti and more on the chart than I could list, mostly contemporary jazz stuff. I'm not gonna take time to start posting links to it all, but using quality tools does make a difference. The M7 has benefited me greatly. And my resume pales in comparison to some. Check out drbill 's resume for TV and film. It's staggering. He does more in a year than most do in a career. Jim's post was a bit obnoxious. I'm sure it was just a response to that. But moving on.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 2, 2017 8:58:00 GMT -6
You guys are getting to the crux of my initial question - which is really more of a personal thing I guess...Is it worth the investment - for me. I guess no one but me could answer that. I know that I have gone back and forth with the Kemper...and I've come to the conclusion that for me - for what I do - demos, mixing, small record projects - it's worth it. Yes, I could get two nice amps and mic them...but the range of sounds I can get for the price - and the ease - works for me. I could see the Bricasti going either way. I could see me saying, "yeah, I hear the difference, but I don't feel like it offers a competitive advantage." Or I could see myself saying,"wow - I see why everyone is so gaga over this thing. It adds a dimension I just couldn't get before."
I guess I'm just gonna have to get one and try myself.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 2, 2017 10:58:03 GMT -6
John, does blackbird have one you can rent for a day?
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Post by wiz on Jun 2, 2017 18:17:38 GMT -6
I only use 1 aux with the Bricasti, it replaces the 3 Auxs I used with plug ins... sorry that wasn't clearer. The Bricasti, can be a bit evangelical... I see that.... in a way I can understand it too, it was such a revelation for me. But, I can see how it can run a bit thin on people. cheers Wiz Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Wiz, but even though you have it on one Aux, you still have to do a real time bounce at least twice. Or, are you printing while you record? No problems, the written word is hard to get across....see if this clears it up for you if not, I will try again, no worries. I only use one AUX with the BRICASTI. Every track gets a little or a lot of it. I actually, believe it or not, now I know the Bricasti so well, leave it off, basically until final mix moves. Its that good! I make everything sound as great as I can , dry. Then turn on the Bricasti and adjust for it, and the mix is done. I just print the final mix. Working dry, makes me get the best out of the sounds... you have to keep in mind, I play/write/sing everything here, so objectivity is out the window pretty quickly, i find working with dry sounds keeps me honest longer. Before the Bricasti, is when I used multiple aux sends and verbs, to try and do the same thing, height/depth/space emulation. So I don't do multiple passes with the Bricasti, only the final mix make it clearer? cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on Jun 2, 2017 18:18:59 GMT -6
I dont record the instruments THROUGH the Bricasti... if thats what you meant. It gets applied via an aux just like any other verb.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 2, 2017 18:27:54 GMT -6
John, does blackbird have one you can rent for a day? Probably...I need to try that.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 2, 2017 18:56:59 GMT -6
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Wiz, but even though you have it on one Aux, you still have to do a real time bounce at least twice. Or, are you printing while you record? No problems, the written word is hard to get across....see if this clears it up for you if not, I will try again, no worries. I only use one AUX with the BRICASTI. Every track gets a little or a lot of it. I actually, believe it or not, now I know the Bricasti so well, leave it off, basically until final mix moves. Its that good! I make everything sound as great as I can , dry. Then turn on the Bricasti and adjust for it, and the mix is done. I just print the final mix. Working dry, makes me get the best out of the sounds... you have to keep in mind, I play/write/sing everything here, so objectivity is out the window pretty quickly, i find working with dry sounds keeps me honest longer. Before the Bricasti, is when I used multiple aux sends and verbs, to try and do the same thing, height/depth/space emulation. So I don't do multiple passes with the Bricasti, only the final mix make it clearer? cheers Wiz Thanks for clarifying. Hope you don't mind another question: I'm surprised you just use one reverb. Do you have a typical reverb setting - i.e. Studio A, Waits Room, Bright Plate, London Plate, Tiled Room etc.- as your go to setting? If not, what do you base your decision on which setting you'll use?
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Post by drsax on Jun 2, 2017 21:02:46 GMT -6
Over here I generally use a couple instances of the Bricasti in most mixes. Since I usually dial in drum sounds first, I'll use short room or ambient reverb to create a nice environment for the drums and percussion. I'll print that and then I'll use a different reverb like a plate or hall on the lead and other mix elements. Someday I'd love to have 2 M7's.
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Post by wiz on Jun 3, 2017 0:01:14 GMT -6
No problems, the written word is hard to get across....see if this clears it up for you if not, I will try again, no worries. I only use one AUX with the BRICASTI. Every track gets a little or a lot of it. I actually, believe it or not, now I know the Bricasti so well, leave it off, basically until final mix moves. Its that good! I make everything sound as great as I can , dry. Then turn on the Bricasti and adjust for it, and the mix is done. I just print the final mix. Working dry, makes me get the best out of the sounds... you have to keep in mind, I play/write/sing everything here, so objectivity is out the window pretty quickly, i find working with dry sounds keeps me honest longer. Before the Bricasti, is when I used multiple aux sends and verbs, to try and do the same thing, height/depth/space emulation. So I don't do multiple passes with the Bricasti, only the final mix make it clearer? cheers Wiz Thanks for clarifying. Hope you don't mind another question: I'm surprised you just use one reverb. Do you have a typical reverb setting - i.e. Studio A, Waits Room, Bright Plate, London Plate, Tiled Room etc.- as your go to setting? If not, what do you base your decision on which setting you'll use? I listen to the bricasti return, which is 100% wet, and I scroll through the presets listening to how it interacts with the wet sounds of everything and find one that works the best and usually end up with a couple....then Un solo the return and sdjust from there. cheers Wiz
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Post by swurveman on Jun 3, 2017 8:26:14 GMT -6
Thanks for clarifying. Hope you don't mind another question: I'm surprised you just use one reverb. Do you have a typical reverb setting - i.e. Studio A, Waits Room, Bright Plate, London Plate, Tiled Room etc.- as your go to setting? If not, what do you base your decision on which setting you'll use? I listen to the bricasti return, which is 100% wet, and I scroll through the presets listening to how it interacts with the wet sounds of everything and find one that works the best and usually end up with a couple....then Un solo the return and sdjust from there. cheers Wiz Sorry for the confusion, but what other wet sounds are you using? Delays? I don't consider them wet sounds, though I suppose a shorter delay with a lot of feedback could be considered wet. The semantics of audio.... lol!
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Post by wiz on Jun 3, 2017 17:23:56 GMT -6
I listen to the bricasti return, which is 100% wet, and I scroll through the presets listening to how it interacts with the wet sounds of everything and find one that works the best and usually end up with a couple....then Un solo the return and sdjust from there. cheers Wiz Sorry for the confusion, but what other wet sounds are you using? Delays? I don't consider them wet sounds, though I suppose a shorter delay with a lot of feedback could be considered wet. The semantics of audio.... lol! When I say wet, I mean its all the effected sound. Eg no dry signal. So, any effect return would be "wet" or sometimes you see it as "Mix" on some effects... in Oz , I say wet... 8) Most mixes nowadays, I run a delay on an 1/8th note on a aux, the Bricasti on an aux, and occasionally another reverb, say a 480L random hall on another aux. I also channel effects, not on an aux but inserted on individual channels, and they might be, modulation, tremolo, phaser, distortion, and occasionally a specialty reverb, such as maybe convolution reverb on a harmonica part, or far away vocal sound etc cheers Wiz
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Post by swurveman on Jun 3, 2017 18:48:42 GMT -6
Sorry for the confusion, but what other wet sounds are you using? Delays? I don't consider them wet sounds, though I suppose a shorter delay with a lot of feedback could be considered wet. The semantics of audio.... lol! When I say wet, I mean its all the effected sound. Eg no dry signal. So, any effect return would be "wet" or sometimes you see it as "Mix" on some effects... in Oz , I say wet... 8) Most mixes nowadays, I run a delay on an 1/8th note on a aux, the Bricasti on an aux, and occasionally another reverb, say a 480L random hall on another aux. I also channel effects, not on an aux but inserted on individual channels, and they might be, modulation, tremolo, phaser, distortion, and occasionally a specialty reverb, such as maybe convolution reverb on a harmonica part, or far away vocal sound etc cheers Wiz Thanks Wiz. Love to see how people use effects.
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Post by porkyman on Jun 3, 2017 19:44:54 GMT -6
I just wanna chime in as an amateur speaking to the other amateurs that might be out there. Imo nothing will improve your mixes more than a bricasti. I would sell every piece of gea I had (except the perfect vocal mic for your voice) to get it. No pre comp eq is worth 1/10 the real value of a bricasti. If all you did was run a little of your full mix through studio A it would have more impact than any other piece of gear you own by far.
The biggest difference between a comercia and demo quality mix imo is reverb. Or space. Some of that is just the rooms they are recording in. Some of it is mic placement and proper technique. Some of it is processing.
I think it's mostly intuitive and not as audible or quantifiable as ppl think. Imo the best engineers are blessed with above average spatial intelligence even though they are not fully conscience of the ways they are affecting the tracks. In other words they can't actually hear the reflections or see them in their minds but they are intuitively able to construct the tracks and fit them in the same space and make them sound whole. it is that "glue" that everybody is chasing.
For example. Imagine going to a concert and seeing a band. All those reflections bouncing all over the place. Now imagine the guitar had no reflections. Everything would be bouncing off the walls except the guitars. Your brain would pick up on that instantly and you'd think you were in the matrix bc it's physically impossible for that to happen. This is what happens when you listen to a poor mix. Your brain picks up on it instantly. It knows these sounds are not coming from the same space. it sounds matrix. That's why in my opinion if you're gonna make a demo quality recording for promo or whatever reason you're better off setting up a couple room Mics and recording live. It will sound better than poorly mixed and you'll get more leeway from the listener.
Every honest amateur will admit what they struggle with the most is reverb. They can't get it to gel with the source track. That is why I believe the bricasti is the most important piece of gear you'll ever buy
in today's low budget world I don't see how you can get by without one unless you're recording/mixing tracks with naturally stellar ambience. Ppl always say "well how did they make all those hit records before the bricasti," and the answer is of course BIG BIG brains with BIG BIG budgets in BIG BIG rooms recording BIG BIG talent. If you ain't got any of that you're gonna have to fake it. The easiest way (only way imo) is with the bricasti.
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