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Post by Johnkenn on May 9, 2017 17:09:12 GMT -6
drbill wiz wanted to ask your opinion. I'm bored these days and just trying to spend money that I'll never get back lol. I've pretty much settled on conversion (it's all pretty damn good these days), I'm settled on instruments and vocal/acoustic mics but now I'm starting to question where to best put my money in outboard. (Which means I'll be selling my 46th sta-level and then buying it back in six months with a post saying I'll never do t again.) I'm wondering if maybe something like an M7 might be more valuable for what I do i.e., tracking my own demos and mixing for others. I've always loved the sta because of the tone it imparted on vocals - but with my Upton, I'm not really finding I need any extra girth. If anything, I'm carving some of that out in the mix. I can control the dynamics with any number of other solutions. What I'm NOT able to change is my recording environment. Think the M7 might be a better investment?
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Post by drsax on May 9, 2017 17:43:05 GMT -6
I'm not drBill, but yes. The Bricasti is magnificent for spaces... especially when your recording environment is not upgradable. If you're already getting what you need out of your equipment, microphones, compressors, etc., then I think the Bricasti would be excellent upgrade. I've had one since they first came out, and it is the one piece of outboard aside from a few compressors I own that is completely irreplaceable
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Post by drbill on May 9, 2017 18:09:32 GMT -6
drbill wiz wanted to ask your opinion. I'm bored these days and just trying to spend money that I'll never get back lol. I've pretty much settled on conversion (it's all pretty damn good these days), I'm settled on instruments and vocal/acoustic mics but now I'm starting to question where to best put my money in outboard. (Which means I'll be selling my 46th sta-level and then buying it back in six months with a post saying I'll never do t again.) I'm wondering if maybe something like an M7 might be more valuable for what I do i.e., tracking my own demos and mixing for others. I've always loved the sta because of the tone it imparted on vocals - but with my Upton, I'm not really finding I need any extra girth. If anything, I'm carving some of that out in the mix. I can control the dynamics with any number of other solutions. What I'm NOT able to change is my recording environment. Think the M7 might be a better investment? John - I really love the Bricasti M7. As drsax mentioned, it does natural spaces - especially smaller spaces - really well. Better than just about anything else I've ever used. It can glue mixes, really really well without being "obvious" - even mixed tracks and mastered mixes. Try the Studio A test I mentioned on the other thread. If you like that, be prepared to have your mind blown if you try it with the hardware. The interface is simple, and easy to navigate, and there's an inexpensive control plugin that you can use to see all the main parameters up front and easy to get to. Invaluable IMO. It's VERY different than Lexicon stuff like the 480L, PCM70, etc.. They also hold their value really well because they are GOOD, and Casey really keeps the value up by not degrading their value with deals, plugins, etc.. Also, aside from plugins, there are no competitors or clones IMO. The best way to see if you get along with it or not is to try some of the IR's and see if you dig em. If you do, you can be pretty confident that you'll like the hardware 25% better. Or more. When I demo'd the Bricasti, I had a mix open with I think stone room or something like that imbedded in an convolution IR plugin in my mix, I brought up the M7 on the same program, sent it via an aux send and matched return levels. By the time I had done that and listened for about 45 seconds, I knew I was buying it. So...if you buy used and don't get ripped, you can almost 100% be assured you can get your money back if you feel it's better spent elsewhere. I'd say go for it. It's a beautiful and well crafted piece of gear that should be in everyone's studio that does acoustic music. IMO of course.
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Post by wiz on May 9, 2017 18:21:55 GMT -6
If you are gonna buy one... get the one (IMHO) without the faceplate display... and buy the plug in... I had a loan M7 here, without the plug in, and with face plate buttons etc...I bought the other version when I returned the loaner,...and I don't miss it one bit.. the plug in is indispensable .
I really love my STAs and wouldnt think of tracking a vocal without it... I just love singing into it.
My songs wouldnt sound anywhere near as good without the M7. But, I am recording everything in this room... drums, bass, guitars vocals perscussion etc.... and I use the Bricasti to tie them all together in a much more expensive sounding space... not for its "reverb" per se... I use Relab or Space Designer for that.
They hold their value for sure, and the company has the right ethos for supporting the product and maintaining your investment.
With you using sampled drums and sampled keys etc, I am not sure if its going to be as big a game changer for you as me though.... might be.... only one way to know....
cheers
Wiz
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Post by mrholmes on May 9, 2017 18:35:24 GMT -6
drbill wiz wanted to ask your opinion. I'm bored these days and just trying to spend money that I'll never get back lol. I've pretty much settled on conversion (it's all pretty damn good these days), I'm settled on instruments and vocal/acoustic mics but now I'm starting to question where to best put my money in outboard. (Which means I'll be selling my 46th sta-level and then buying it back in six months with a post saying I'll never do t again.) I'm wondering if maybe something like an M7 might be more valuable for what I do i.e., tracking my own demos and mixing for others. I've always loved the sta because of the tone it imparted on vocals - but with my Upton, I'm not really finding I need any extra girth. If anything, I'm carving some of that out in the mix. I can control the dynamics with any number of other solutions. What I'm NOT able to change is my recording environment. Think the M7 might be a better investment? John - I really love the Bricasti M7. As drsax mentioned, it does natural spaces - especially smaller spaces - really well. Better than just about anything else I've ever used. It can glue mixes, really really well without being "obvious" - even mixed tracks and mastered mixes. Try the Studio A test I mentioned on the other thread. If you like that, be prepared to have your mind blown if you try it with the hardware. @johnkenn When I compared the LS-SVH with M7 hardware files.....it was WOW. I cant agree more with drbill. The SVH plug in will be second choice just in case your HW is blocked. What jumped into my ear was not only the beauty of ERs and lates - what made the illusion of tracking in a room near perfect was the dynamic part @ different frequencies. If you do not have a nice sounding tracking room, like the most of us, I think the M7 is the next best choice if track very dry. I would trade this compressor for he M7 because I think we have too many options in the compression department today. Your AB comparison with the sta level plug showed me that some plugs can sound very similar. I say do it.....
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,809
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Post by ericn on May 9, 2017 18:55:24 GMT -6
Just do it ! Of course your next purchase will be another STA after that!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 9, 2017 21:17:21 GMT -6
To me, the quality of a lead vocal is more important han any other aspect of a song. For instance, you could use any of a dozen preamps for an electric guitar that no one would argue with, but getting the right one for vocals is much more difficult in my experience.
In a similar way, if the STA gets your vocals where you like them and nothing else does, then you can't sell it. If you can live with another compressor, maybe a Stam or Warm, the Bricasti will get you to a higher plateau, but it shouldn't be at the expense of a lead vocal.
When I heard the Bricasti, i knew instantly it was monster.
If all things were equal, and I was given the choice of either a STA or a Bricasti, I'd take the Bricasti.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 9, 2017 21:44:57 GMT -6
Don't sell the STA to get the Bricasti... If you can save up while getting By with the LS Seventh Heaven i recommend that... Also in that time period see how tracking / mixing without the STA goes. If after working say a month without the STA and having equal results i would then think of selling...
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Post by john on May 9, 2017 22:44:45 GMT -6
be advised that Bricasti intends to release a "more affordable analog rock and roll Reverb/delay" at the next namm. although I know I will eventually get the big dawg I'm also excited to see what this new model has to offer.
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Post by 79sg on May 10, 2017 7:05:30 GMT -6
I spoke with Bricasti a couple of days ago and asked about their upcoming V3 for the M7 and the new product M200, ended up coming away with the impression that both are down the road and probably not this year. I've been on the fence waiting for the M200 to try and save a few bucks but will most likely move ahead with an M7. I've been contemplating this box for too long always hoping a plugin will squash my desire for the real thing. Nothing like the real thing (at least at this time). There are great reverb plugins but I just can't get this out of my head.
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Post by swurveman on May 10, 2017 10:33:23 GMT -6
As a Bricasti owner, I'm going to give the contrarian opinion, that since you're using a drum virtual instrument with its own reverb and somewhat dense mixes that you;d be better off not buying a Bricasti and going with Lexicon's Random Hall reverb.
Listen to these samples. I don't think in a dense mix a Bricasti is going to give you anything better than this for vocal depth. In fact, what you'll get is darker and will have to be tweaked more.
I keep my Bricasti because I get a lot of acoustic guitar/vocal work for my studio where I need the warmth of Bricasti's rooms. For my more dense mixes, I hardly use it.
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Post by drsax on May 10, 2017 11:03:49 GMT -6
As a Bricasti owner, I'm going to give the contrarian opinion, that since you're using a drum virtual instrument with its own reverb and somewhat dense mixes that you;d be better off not buying a Bricasti and going with Lexicon's Random Hall reverb. Listen to these samples. I don't think in a dense mix a Bricasti is going to give you anything better than this for vocal depth. In fact, what you'll get is darker and will have to be tweaked more. I keep my Bricasti because I get a lot of acoustic guitar/vocal work for my studio where I need the warmth of Bricasti's rooms. For my more dense mixes, I hardly use it. I've used the Lexicon pcm random verb (hardware & software) for a long time alongside the Bricasti and haven't had that experience. I love the PCM Random Verb, but the bricasti adds depth and dimension that is far beyond the Lex in dense or open mixes. That's my experience anyway
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Post by Johnkenn on May 10, 2017 13:43:01 GMT -6
As a Bricasti owner, I'm going to give the contrarian opinion, that since you're using a drum virtual instrument with its own reverb and somewhat dense mixes that you;d be better off not buying a Bricasti and going with Lexicon's Random Hall reverb. Listen to these samples. I don't think in a dense mix a Bricasti is going to give you anything better than this for vocal depth. In fact, what you'll get is darker and will have to be tweaked more. I keep my Bricasti because I get a lot of acoustic guitar/vocal work for my studio where I need the warmth of Bricasti's rooms. For my more dense mixes, I hardly use it. Acoustic vocal is mostly what I do...
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Post by michaelcleary on May 10, 2017 14:42:02 GMT -6
Bricasti is a game changer. Pretty much the most effective verb I have ever used and the first time I used it I realized it can really make a mix into a different animal than if I didnt have it. Love it for rooms on drums, space on vocals or just vibe on any instrument. Sigh.... I have had one on indefinite loan for a year and hopefully I get to hang onto it for another year....
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Post by Johnkenn on May 10, 2017 16:00:10 GMT -6
Just tried tracking some vocals without the sta. The sta isn't going anywhere (or I at the very least would want something equivalent).
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Post by Johnkenn on May 10, 2017 16:01:06 GMT -6
Btw, that Lexicon reverb bundle is killer.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 10, 2017 16:05:15 GMT -6
Just tried tracking some vocals without the sta. The sta isn't going anywhere (or I at the very least would want something equivalent). Send me a vocal to put through the Weight Tank.
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Post by drsax on May 10, 2017 17:22:14 GMT -6
Johnkenn - yeah, don't sell the STA. You've been down that road before. But your desire for a Bricasti is justified. It's freakin' amazing!
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Post by jimwilliams on May 10, 2017 17:35:50 GMT -6
There are two kinds of studios, those that have the M7 and those that do not.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 10, 2017 20:50:46 GMT -6
Just tried tracking some vocals without the sta. The sta isn't going anywhere (or I at the very least would want something equivalent). Send me a vocal to put through the Weight Tank. I literally don't think I have anything without the Sta already on it...I've got another song to finish up tomorrow and Friday...I'll sing something and get it over. I definitely want to hear it.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 11, 2017 2:16:57 GMT -6
Send me a vocal to put through the Weight Tank. I literally don't think I have anything without the Sta already on it...I've got another song to finish up tomorrow and Friday...I'll sing something and get it over. I definitely want to hear it. I still want one 😫😂 ( weight tank )
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Post by Johnkenn on May 11, 2017 9:38:44 GMT -6
Me too...I'd love to be able to buy the WT and pocket $1200+
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Post by drbill on May 11, 2017 9:58:51 GMT -6
I don't think the weight tank is a replacement for the stalevel, but I'd LOVE to be proved wrong.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 11, 2017 10:01:27 GMT -6
I don't think the weight tank is a replacement for the stalevel, but I'd LOVE to be proved wrong. Not necessarily what I wanted to hear
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Post by ragan on May 11, 2017 10:10:29 GMT -6
What is a replacement for the STA?
I've always lusted after either a STA or a CL1B.
Someday...
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