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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2015 13:55:42 GMT -6
I find it ironic that there's such an outcry for software developers not getting paid, but no one seems to care that there are billions of dollars of revenue lost by songwriters for the same type of theft.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 23, 2015 14:19:11 GMT -6
I'll never forget Craig Anderton condemning copy protection of music in the very same editorial he was defending copy protection of software. Can you say "follow the money?"
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Post by formatcyes on Dec 23, 2015 15:09:37 GMT -6
I find it ironic that there's such an outcry for software developers not getting paid, but no one seems to care that there are billions of dollars of revenue lost by songwriters for the same type of theft. Maybe that's the truth a reset required where everyone's rights are respected. However the small software guy's are just pawn's to.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2015 16:24:45 GMT -6
And btw, songwriters have to pay exorbitant prices to make the music they are getting stolen.
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 18:28:32 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2015 18:28:32 GMT -6
and so it begins: Part 2
So although what little we have been told is that only windows based systems were compromised.
Out of the blue, I got an email from Livestream today indicating that their system may have been hacked and recommending password resets.
Unrelated ? A co-incidence ? A hoax? Phishing? I am on a MAC. Internet paranoia ?
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 18:43:08 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 23, 2015 18:43:08 GMT -6
and so it begins: Part 2 So although what little we have been told is that only windows based systems were compromised. Out of the blue, I got an email from Livestream today indicating that their system may have been hacked and recommending password resets. Unrelated ? A co-incidence ? A hoax? Phishing? I am on a MAC. Internet paranoia ? Why would live stream be related to bypassing iLok? I don't see the connection.
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Post by LesC on Dec 23, 2015 19:12:44 GMT -6
I've been using iLok since the beginning many years ago. I wish all my plugins were on it, it makes system upgrades trivial. I have had hundreds of plugins on them including Waves Mercury before they had their own authorization system. I'm on PC running Cubase, never had an iLok related issue of any kind.
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 19:20:05 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2015 19:20:05 GMT -6
and so it begins: Part 2 So although what little we have been told is that only windows based systems were compromised. Out of the blue, I got an email from Livestream today indicating that their system may have been hacked and recommending password resets. Unrelated ? A co-incidence ? A hoax? Phishing? I am on a MAC. Internet paranoia ? Why would live stream be related to bypassing iLok? I don't see the connection. They shouldn't be at all is my hope. But I probably provided similar or identical personal information into both their "secure' databases. I was more commenting on the co-incidence.
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Post by M57 on Dec 23, 2015 19:40:01 GMT -6
A coincidence is a week when only one company is hacked.
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 20:22:27 GMT -6
Post by porkyman on Dec 23, 2015 20:22:27 GMT -6
i have a usb problem on my pc. it only has 6 but 2 are mouse and keyboard. another one for wifi, so technically i only have 3. 1 interface. 1 flash (waves), and 1 for ilok. every time i want to use midi or external HD i have to lose wifi. not that big of a deal but its annoying. lol buy a USB hub. They're like $20 from NewEgg or less. You can't seriously expect us to believe that this is a problem anymore. www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2V51YU3966lol back. the first question people usually ask when you have an ilok problem is "are you using a hub." heres an ex. from duc duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-367705.htmlhubs decrease the bandwidth of your usb ports (obviously) by spliting the signal. there is nothing i would put on there except keyboard. youre right though. that was a reach. i usually remove the wifi anyways when im mixing even if im not using the port.
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 20:40:40 GMT -6
Post by porkyman on Dec 23, 2015 20:40:40 GMT -6
The iLock 1 crack sent several small plug-in developers into bankruptcy. I've been told developers watch their sales drop by 90% every time they get cracked. No developer who has investors can afford to not use the most secure copy protection available. youre right Bob. i was being selfish. if these guys are willing to pay $40,000 then it must mean a lot to their company. i have tech-rage. i go from 0 to postal every time doesnt work perfectly. i often yell out loud at my phone in public like a crazy person whenever it doesnt do exactly what i want instantly. i dont know what it is but i have zero patience with anything "tech." i still hate ilok though. i hope theres a new standard around the corner.
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 21:15:47 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by LesC on Dec 23, 2015 21:15:47 GMT -6
lol back. the first question people usually ask when you have an ilok problem is "are you using a hub." heres an ex. from duc duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-367705.htmlhubs decrease the bandwidth of your usb ports (obviously) by spliting the signal. there is nothing i would put on there except keyboard. youre right though. that was a reach. i usually remove the wifi anyways when im mixing even if im not using the port. I think that like most things there are good hubs and bad. I use a hub for everything except my RME UFX, including the iLok, with no problem. Because my PC is in a closet, I have my hub and the UFX on 16 foot USB extenders plus 8 foot USB cables, again with no problem.
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 23:36:00 GMT -6
Post by porkyman on Dec 23, 2015 23:36:00 GMT -6
lol back. the first question people usually ask when you have an ilok problem is "are you using a hub." heres an ex. from duc duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-367705.htmlhubs decrease the bandwidth of your usb ports (obviously) by spliting the signal. there is nothing i would put on there except keyboard. youre right though. that was a reach. i usually remove the wifi anyways when im mixing even if im not using the port. I think that like most things there are good hubs and bad. I use a hub for everything except my RME UFX, including the iLok, with no problem. Because my PC is in a closet, I have my hub and the UFX on 16 foot USB extenders plus 8 foot USB cables, again with no problem. you dont get any latency? i would like to move my pc to the back of the room but im already getting lag from my mouse from 20' dvi cable. i didnt think extending the usb would be a very good idea.
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Deleted
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iLok 2
Dec 23, 2015 23:36:58 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 23:36:58 GMT -6
Obviously a dongle system that leaves more angry customers than happy ones would be out of business lightning fast. *But* this does not mean there could not be many out there that actually had or have problems with it. When i said "a constant source of errors", i meant dongles since the beginning of dongles, that is around *DOS* times or maybe Apple II. Dongles have been used for all kind of software since. Yes, maybe most people or even the vast majority of users may run maybe hassle-free, but those who actually have them are mostly, ehem, screwed. Dongles always need drivers. If you have any hardware incompatibility, well, you will mostly run in trouble over and over. Worst case: You have to buy another computer, different mainboard... Therefore, it is also easier to test dongle + driver for Apple systems, because the hardware is extremely restricted to very few components in comparison to PC world. Next, USB standards were always a bit of a PITA since USB 1.0. While the standard seems to be pretty clear about how USB interfaces have to work, the practical side of things was different. AFAIK all USB standards had troubles the first...years(!)...with quite some manufacturers, hit or miss. Also - often enough system driver problems. it got better, but still - i know USB 3.0 ports still often behave differently as expected on quite some mainboards. And this is by far not only happening in cheap hardware. So - hit and miss. USB has a long tradition of sometimes beeing annoying and troublesome. Again - Apple is easier to handle in this regards, because the hardware is so restricted, that driver problems are easier to debug. So my sceptical view on dongles is a general one, not specifically on ilok. So, personally i really like systems like the XLN one for example. Another reality we must face, and i say this as someone with professional training in programming+coding in several computer languages, so - from a developers perspective - there is no safe copy protection for software, like there is none for music. Remember CD's with copy-protection mechanisms? DVD encryption? DRM? All this could not really protect intellectual property. As an analogy - audio software copy protection methods are just as safe as little interest is on the crackers side to invest a few evenings of time *more* than they already do on other kinds of software. Yes, there is by far more interest in games and office or picture editing software as in the niche audio software. Example: 1 hour after the selling of the actual game "Fallout 4" started in NZ, the first cracked and running copy was in the net for download. Some people in Europe and America played it, before it was available in the stores due to the timezone. That for actual copy protection systems. It's odd, but really, it is not new. Some developers go the way of financing their work by crowdfunding, which works obvuously extremely well, because there is no way to see the software before the financial goal is reached. And this is absolutely not only for small projects or companies. Biggest budget 100% crowdfunded software project right now is "Star Citizen". It's the biggest crowd-funding project ever with 1,000,000 supporters and a crowdfunding sum of 100,000,000 USD. A quite interesting and relatively new concept for software developers to make sure they get paid. And if there is not enough interest - maybe it would not have had a chance to pay off anyway...
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2015 7:15:10 GMT -6
I too am runing my iloc in a cheap usb 2 hub. Sometimes when loading a session pro tools doesn't see the ilok so I have to reinsert it: problem solved.
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iLok 2
Dec 24, 2015 8:58:17 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by LesC on Dec 24, 2015 8:58:17 GMT -6
I think that like most things there are good hubs and bad. I use a hub for everything except my RME UFX, including the iLok, with no problem. Because my PC is in a closet, I have my hub and the UFX on 16 foot USB extenders plus 8 foot USB cables, again with no problem. you dont get any latency? i would like to move my pc to the back of the room but im already getting lag from my mouse from 20' dvi cable. i didnt think extending the usb would be a very good idea. I used to have latency issues years ago on an RME PCI 9652 card when I occasionally forgot to press the Cubase delay compensation button. These days during recording I monitor everything through a 12 input single rack space mixer so latency is not an issue regardless of my crappy memory.
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iLok 2
Dec 24, 2015 12:08:33 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 24, 2015 12:08:33 GMT -6
Monitoring through a computer interface always interferes with the performance as do headphones.
An analog mixer for headphones or loudspeaker monitoring solves the problem. The interference happens long before the performer perceives there is any problem so people typically blame the pitch and timing problems themselves.
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iLok 2
Dec 24, 2015 12:34:23 GMT -6
Post by drbill on Dec 24, 2015 12:34:23 GMT -6
Here's a few : - Instant portability. When I get called out of town to mix and produce, it's great to be able to take all my important software with me on two usb sticks (1 - iLok with authorizations, 2 - thumb drive with plugin folder), plug both in, swap out one folder, boot PT and start mixing / recording with all my fav / needed software. Simple. It takes me all of about 2 minutes to do this. - Super Quick OS upgrades. I don't like upgrading from a previous system - I like starting with a fresh drive and fresh OS install. iLok makes that MUCH, MUCH simpler than looking up all my account names, passwords, email addresses, etc. from years past and reauthorizing all my plugs. I dread that part of an OS upgrade. - if I'm out of town, lose, break or have the iLok stolen (never happened but it could), I've got the zero downtime thing. Back up and running in a jiffy. - Brainless, day in, day out operation (At least for me) that protects (at least it normally does) the developers that I want to keep in business and support. - A simple, standardized way to get your assets, authorize them and get back to work. Less hassle, less remembering arcane methods of authorization, Less time spent on stupid hunting down serials, codes, etc. No relearning and jumping thru new hoops developed and engineered differently by every other developer that uses proprietary methods to authorize. That's my main list of why I praise iLok. There's a lot of praise out there if you're actually looking for it. Plenty of hate too, but again, I for the life of me can't figure out why.... i feel ridiculous disagreeing with you Bill. kinda like the patient arguing with the doctor, but i can not even imagine a system free of ilok problems. i just searched "ilok issues" on duc and it came back with 500 thread results. - when you go out of town, why cant you use their licenses? why do you need to use your own licenses. do you download all your own software on somebody elses computer? what does ilok license manager do that waves license manager doesnt? wouldnt it be more efficient to store your licenses on the same drive as the installers? i have a usb problem on my pc. it only has 6 but 2 are mouse and keyboard. another one for wifi, so technically i only have 3. 1 interface. 1 flash (waves), and 1 for ilok. every time i want to use midi or external HD i have to lose wifi. not that big of a deal but its annoying. - totally agree here but its the same with waves licenses that are stored on regular flash drives. no need for ilok. - i guess that could be a plus. - so is/does waves, plugin alliance, xln etc. and they dont have to pay $40,000. - same as above. i just recently did a clean install and ilok was nice but none of the others were difficult at all. chrome remembered all my usernames and passwords. it was way more irritating tracking down all the installers. i understand the concept of ilok. i just think it does more harm than good. all these developers paid 40k for what? to prevent punk kids from using their software for a few years? its not like they were ever gonna pay for their plug ins in the first place. they just wouldnt use them. No worries man. It's all good. Each of us can only really share from our own perspective. I'm always curious about those who have a different experience than I have had. You seem like a balanced guy. Some of the iLok haters are more akin to Nazi's though. LOL I'm traveling right now, so can't really respond in detail. Merry Christmas! bp
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iLok 2
Dec 24, 2015 12:39:18 GMT -6
Post by drbill on Dec 24, 2015 12:39:18 GMT -6
i feel ridiculous disagreeing with you Bill. kinda like the patient arguing with the doctor, but i can not even imagine a system free of ilok problems. i just searched "ilok issues" on duc and it came back with 500 thread results. - when you go out of town, why cant you use their licenses? why do you need to use your own licenses. do you download all your own software on somebody elses computer? what does ilok license manager do that waves license manager doesnt? wouldnt it be more efficient to store your licenses on the same drive as the installers? i have a usb problem on my pc. it only has 6 but 2 are mouse and keyboard. another one for wifi, so technically i only have 3. 1 interface. 1 flash (waves), and 1 for ilok. every time i want to use midi or external HD i have to lose wifi. not that big of a deal but its annoying. - totally agree here but its the same with waves licenses that are stored on regular flash drives. no need for ilok. - i guess that could be a plus. - so is/does waves, plugin alliance, xln etc. and they dont have to pay $40,000. - same as above. i just recently did a clean install and ilok was nice but none of the others were difficult at all. chrome remembered all my usernames and passwords. it was way more irritating tracking down all the installers. i understand the concept of ilok. i just think it does more harm than good. all these developers paid 40k for what? to prevent punk kids from using their software for a few years? its not like they were ever gonna pay for their plug ins in the first place. they just wouldnt use them. Think I found your problem Haha!! I used to think that it was a PC thing, but there's quite a few Mac guys who are haters as well, so I'm not sure what to think.....
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iLok 2
Dec 24, 2015 12:40:52 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 24, 2015 12:40:52 GMT -6
Waves and PLA probably pay a lot more than $40,000 each in developer salaries! Having protection that is unique to one developer makes a lot less appealing target to a hacker than protection supporting hundreds of products.
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iLok 2
Dec 24, 2015 12:43:47 GMT -6
Post by drbill on Dec 24, 2015 12:43:47 GMT -6
lol back. the first question people usually ask when you have an ilok problem is "are you using a hub." heres an ex. from duc duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-367705.htmlhubs decrease the bandwidth of your usb ports (obviously) by spliting the signal. there is nothing i would put on there except keyboard. youre right though. that was a reach. i usually remove the wifi anyways when im mixing even if im not using the port. I've ALWAYS had my iLoks on a hub. (I think there are 4 on there now. Maybe 3 and an eLicenser dongle....) Maybe your PC has a weak USB system? Have no idea, but hubs are not the cause of the problem.
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iLok 2
Dec 25, 2015 4:55:51 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 4:55:51 GMT -6
USB hubs are very cheaply made items. The expensive ones "may" have better connectors, maybe "active" (i.e. external PSU instead of bus powered and therefore stabilizing the 5V rail on the external devices, too). But normally same chips and even the more expensive ones can have serious flaws and you paid only for name and visual appearance. If the devices works directly on the computer port, it's all connector, cable and solder quality. And the 5V power rail not sufficient for the high demand passive/bus powered devices on the out ports. OK, USB has a bottleneck for streaming too much data e.g. when using more than one audio interface over the hub, but these dongles should not be too demanding, otherwise they would really eat up much too much ressources for the task.... For debugging usb devices, supporters always minimize possible sources of failure. USB hub and cable therefore are the first things to check. From my time supporting IT problems with hardware: 90% of the problems are connection and cable.
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iLok 2
Dec 25, 2015 5:04:05 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 5:04:05 GMT -6
I.e. drBill is totally right: if the hub is correctly working it should not be any problem to even use more than one dongle over it.
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Post by unit7 on Dec 25, 2015 7:13:45 GMT -6
During my eight years on gear forums I've looked upon all iLok hate threads with wonder, and almost thought that 'ok, when is this sh*t going to happen to me?..' I get it that when the tools you're totally dependent on fail you get upset, and the epic fail I believe iLok did themselves when licenses were erased a few years ago, is beyond unforgivable. But personally after 15+ years with iLoks on 4-5 different stationary Macs, and USB hubs, and - knock on wood - never a problem I'm totally pro iLok. The whole idea with portability, ZDT, platform for xfer licenses is brilliant. Needless to say, when (not 'if') any copy protection method is hacked the whole thing collapses.
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iLok 2
Dec 27, 2015 9:36:28 GMT -6
Post by swurveman on Dec 27, 2015 9:36:28 GMT -6
Add me to the group that never had an ILOK problem, and add me to the group who has a a hub that does not work. Thankfully, I've got lots of USB ports on my PC.
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