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Post by mcirish on Feb 24, 2022 15:58:28 GMT -6
I have a Wunder CM7GTS-M7. That's the one with a EF800 tube and the "Suprema" electronics upgrade. I've shot it out with a vintage U48 and a multitude of other mics. It's good. The U48 had a bit more air to it but nothing that a dB or so of 10k wouldn't fix. Mine has a Thiersch Red M7 (mylar) in it. A number of years ago, I had to send it back to Mike because there was an odd noise problem. After he swapped everything, he eventually found it was the capsule. It took a long while to get it back and it was an expensive repair. It's never sounded quite the same. I'm sure the capsule swap just threw off my ears as I was so used to the original. I'm not sure what capsule was in the U48. It may have been a K47, which would account for the slight sound difference. Anyway, the CM7GTS-M7 works well for me (though a little different than when it had the earlier capsule) and I'm sure it isn't keeping me from great recordings. I also modified a Miktek CV4 and replaced the (horrible IMO) capsule with a Beesneez K7. That is one fine sounding mic and is my favorite on a specific alto voice. It has most of the U47 bigness and is a great second main vocal mic option for me. I've often thought about picking up another CV4 and putting in one of Tim's capsules. That would give me another flavor too. I'd love to get my hands on a good U67 to see what I thought. I had one in the studio a couple months ago and was really disappointed in it. So much so, that I think it may have had issues. It was very thin sounding and boring. Comparing it to my other options, it went back in the case within a few minutes. I did have a Bock 251 for a while and it sounded great too. I was surprised by how U47ish that sounded in the low mids. I expected the 251 to be a little lowend light but it was very nice. Thanks for the info. Ya I've been intrigued by the Miktek CV4 with the Shannon Rhodes mod. Tim Campbell only makes a C12 style capsule right? Yes, I was thinking of trying a CK12 capsule in it
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Post by teejay on Feb 24, 2022 17:15:01 GMT -6
The Chandler Redd can rightfully be called a flagship mic. I like it better than a dozen Neumann's I've heard. Of course there's always a few Neumann's that seem unbeatable, but you'd have to have a whole bunch of them to compare to find "the one". The Chandler is right there now. It has a high end in the same class as a 251. The words "mid forward" struck the REDD from my list almost instantly... I typically put the disclaimer at the front of my comments that I am not the expert pretty much everyone else here is, and this is no exception. That being said, I want to address the "mid-forward" thoughts as that has not been my personal experience. Sounds like I may be in the ballpark with you vocally in that I have a naturally strong mid presence. Many mics just enhance that, and the sound is not better. I'm more of a 251 guy sonically than 87/47...at least as I hear my own voice. I demoed the Heiserman HT47 with both M7/K47 caps, the Flea 47 Next, ADK Z-67, and the Upton. Incredibly nice mics. I also owned an ADK Z-251, which while not the true 251 sound is in the ballpark and is a great mic as well. I really wanted to like the Heiserman or Upton (in fact, my wife offered to let me keep both!). Kept trying to talk myself into them. But, the reality was they were all a bit too mid-heavy in the wrong spots for my taste, especially at that level of investment. Then I tried the REDD. That's the one I kept. On my voice the REDD was a much more balanced sound (not scooped...balanced) and was not pushing my mid areas. If I want more mids I can easily pull out the Low Contour knob and "Voila!"...more mid emphasis. But when it is not engaged I hear no overt mid issues. All that to say, be careful about writing the REDD off for being "mid forward" without hearing it on your own vocals in your own room if you can arrange that. (Same for any mic of interest, right?)
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 24, 2022 17:21:03 GMT -6
Honorable mention... C37a and Tonelux JC37. Chris Where is the M49 love?
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Post by chessparov on Feb 24, 2022 22:52:13 GMT -6
Love the M49 sound. But... My long term budget, will probably cap around $2500 tops. Having a vintage 87 accessible, helps a lot. And my U195 is quite nice too. Then a dozen other "Character Mics" to boot! Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 24, 2022 23:06:09 GMT -6
Love the M49 sound. But... My long term budget, will probably cap around $2500 tops. Having a vintage 87 accessible, helps a lot. And my U195 is quite nice too. Then a dozen other "Character Mics" to boot! Chris Pretty sure Chris from Barbaric could build you one for less than that…. Just saying.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 24, 2022 23:32:47 GMT -6
Thanks Vincent. It's a very good thought. I'm going to learn how to (hopefully;)) maximize what already here, before adding another premium mic. BTW the JC37 and Soyuz 017 FET have been two long term temptations. Chris P.S. And maybe some of that $$ might be smart, to get further vocal training! (Including VO)
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Post by hadaja on Feb 25, 2022 4:10:28 GMT -6
Thanks Vincent. It's a very good thought. I'm going to learn how to (hopefully;)) maximize what already here, before adding another premium mic. BTW the JC37 and Soyuz 017 FET have been two long term temptations. Chris P.S. And maybe some of that $$ might be smart, to get further vocal training! (Including VO) Well surpise surprise Chris, i bought the soyuz 017 new about a year agp and hardly use it so one day it could be yours...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 5:41:19 GMT -6
I'd say that the 67 is the "biggest" sounding mic ever. Somehow it sounds wider without losing focus. I had a Bock 195 mic that sounded wide, but it felt unfocused, more like an omni setting, even though it was set to cardioid. Hmm that's actually quite concerning, the first gen ISK 2B (K67 cap) version was like that. Great in a singer / acoustic setup where vocals benefited from some extra width but in a busier song it would get lost in translation. The Gen 2 reigned it fortunately.. Is this just a U195 thing or does it apply to other Bock mic's? P.S What I mean't by my other post is I tend to use brighter, more open and sensitive mic's in the studio where I control my voice to an extent and darker mic's / dynamic's live because they don't get ruined by volume or grit. There's a fair bit of difference between bright and brittle though..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 6:06:23 GMT -6
Honorable mention... C37a and Tonelux JC37. Chris Where is the M49 love? I'm probably one of the rare few who prefers the M149 through a chain with tube distortion options over an M49. I'll just say it the whole classic mic genre is a bit lost on me but unlike my somewhat "out there" dynamic stance I understand it. In a studio setting I'd often chose a mic to obfuscate and flatter a voice type and a lot of singers really don't do well with modern or accurate mic's. I'm a bit of an exception to the rule here (if you don't count pop, pop rock, country, R&B etc. singers ), I'm very technically accurate and if for some reason that isn't the case I'll practice constantly until I am, some times I can be a bit robotic due to the fact which is something I've worked on over the years. As said, my voice suits pop music and modern production (ironically being an extreme metal head for decades). Even the U67 mainly gets used on acoustic or certain instruments, for me there's no better mic for those applications but it doesn't see much use on vocals. I'm looking for modern mic's mainly.. teejay , understood.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 25, 2022 8:09:05 GMT -6
ShadowK said, "Is this just a U195 thing or does it apply to other Bock mic's?"
I think it was just that mic. Can't say for sure, but the two other Bock mics I've heard sounded really good.
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Post by Ward on Feb 25, 2022 8:50:41 GMT -6
I'm looking for modern mic's mainly.. Two recommendations: 1. Heiserman Type 19 2. Telefunken CU29 copperhead, with extra valves to experiment with tonal response. The Heiserman is present and clean. The Copperhead is gritty and dirty. It is delicious on modern vocals!
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Post by chessparov on Feb 25, 2022 9:32:32 GMT -6
ShadowK said, "Is this just a U195 thing or does it apply to other Bock mic's?"
I think it was just that mic. Can't say for sure, but the two other Bock mics I've heard sounded really good. I have the latest version of U195. Beats out a modern U87ai on me, as a benchmark. Chris
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Post by drsax on Feb 25, 2022 10:06:07 GMT -6
I can say unequivocally that the REDD mic is not mid forward. If something sounds mid forward through it, then it’s at the source, not the mic. I have mics that are mid forward. The REDD is not one of them. I have more time on the REDD than most as I’ve owned mine nearly as long as it’s been out. I’ve not once experienced mid forward tones from this mic. My Neumann mics though… I can confidently say that many of them, especially the ones with transformers, as nice as they are, exhibit obvious mid forward tendencies.
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Post by Ward on Feb 25, 2022 10:32:55 GMT -6
I can say unequivocally that the REDD mic is not mid forward. If something sounds mid forward through it, then it’s at the source, not the mic. I have mics that are mid forward. The REDD is not one of them. I have more time on the REDD than most as I’ve owned mine nearly as long as it’s been out. I’ve not once experienced mid forward tones from this mic. My Neumann mics though… I can confidently say that many of them, especially the ones with transformers, as nice as they are, exhibit obvious mid forward tendencies. Of course we need spock in here, but as Adam Fiori might point out . . . there are a lot of options on the Redd Mic itself!
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Post by chessparov on Feb 25, 2022 13:10:27 GMT -6
To me, the REDD mic makes the Source sound like it's "right there". Chris
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Post by drsax on Feb 25, 2022 14:09:36 GMT -6
To me, the REDD mic makes the Source sound like it's "right there". Chris yes, this. My take is that many are so “engrained” in what they have heard in the past that they have a difficult time embracing something new or “different” than what they are used to. The REDD is SO much more than most take the time to experience. It was stellar when I recieved it, but once the initial love affair cooled down, over time it has pretty much outperformed my other high end mics that seem to be the industry go-to’s. It is an advancement in mic design IMO. I welcomed the uncharted territory and now reap the benefits of it. I would sell my U67 in a heartbeat before selling the REDD. But please don’t ask… cuz I’m gonna keep them both as long as I can
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Post by enlav on Feb 25, 2022 14:23:57 GMT -6
I'm looking for modern mic's mainly.. Two recommendations: 1. Heiserman Type 19 2. Telefunken CU29 copperhead, with extra valves to experiment with tonal response. The Heiserman is present and clean. The Copperhead is gritty and dirty. It is delicious on modern vocals! Given ShadowK's mention of Neumann's beforehand (I know the Type 19 isn't a Neumann per se, but using the 47 capsule makes me think it might be closer to that sound signature), maybe it would be worth waiting for the "Type" microphone that has the edge-terminated capsule instead?
I know I'm nearing the edge of my budget now (just waiting on the Aurora(n) or UFX), so I may not have the dough to cough up for the Heiserman 251, but I'm still very curious about the "Type-" microphone that comes out with the same capsule.
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Post by Ward on Feb 25, 2022 14:49:46 GMT -6
Two recommendations: 1. Heiserman Type 19 2. Telefunken CU29 copperhead, with extra valves to experiment with tonal response. The Heiserman is present and clean. The Copperhead is gritty and dirty. It is delicious on modern vocals! Given ShadowK's mention of Neumann's beforehand (I know the Type 19 isn't a Neumann per se, but using the 47 capsule makes me think it might be closer to that sound signature), maybe it would be worth waiting for the "Type" microphone that has the edge-terminated capsule instead? I know I'm nearing the edge of my budget now (just waiting on the Aurora(n) or UFX), so I may not have the dough to cough up for the Heiserman 251, but I'm still very curious about the "Type-" microphone that comes out with the same capsule.
You mean the Type-21? You will have to bring that up with wave or mdmitch2 or Eric himself . . . I can only speak to the mics I have or have extensively tried out. Non-hyped, non-mid-forward, 'boring' mic (which isn't boring at all) would be a Heiserman H47 with the M7 headbasket. I have the H47 and both head baskets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 20:29:45 GMT -6
To me, the REDD mic makes the Source sound like it's "right there". Chris yes, this. My take is that many are so “engrained” in what they have heard in the past that they have a difficult time embracing something new or “different” than what they are used to. The REDD is SO much more than most take the time to experience. It was stellar when I recieved it, but once the initial love affair cooled down, over time it has pretty much outperformed my other high end mics that seem to be the industry go-to’s. It is an advancement in mic design IMO. I welcomed the uncharted territory and now reap the benefits of it. I would sell my U67 in a heartbeat before selling the REDD. But please don’t ask… cuz I’m gonna keep them both as long as I can You know what puts me off with Chandler? Their limited one year warranty. I mean it's better than Telfefunken but compared to Neumann with their 3 year warranty or Lewitt with their 10 year offering or even Audio Technica with their 15 year option it seems a bit lacking. I know practicalities are boring when we talk about super cool mic's but one of the reason's I owned a lot of Neumann's in the studio realm was readily available parts, rental replacements and great warranty offerings. Also Chandler aren't the only one's innovating in the mic segment so it becomes a bit of a tough sell in some regards. Quite interested in the Lewitt 1040 ATM..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 26, 2022 8:44:51 GMT -6
Shadow, the Chandler is a game changer, trust me.
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Post by crillemannen on Feb 26, 2022 9:07:16 GMT -6
I can say unequivocally that the REDD mic is not mid forward. If something sounds mid forward through it, then it’s at the source, not the mic. I have mics that are mid forward. The REDD is not one of them. I have more time on the REDD than most as I’ve owned mine nearly as long as it’s been out. I’ve not once experienced mid forward tones from this mic. My Neumann mics though… I can confidently say that many of them, especially the ones with transformers, as nice as they are, exhibit obvious mid forward tendencies. The Redd is one of the most midforward mics I've used. Maybe we just mean different things. It is very, very bright in the 3-4khz range. I did like it allot but saying it's not midforward is very misleading. I own both a u47, m269 and tried most of the high-end boutique mics people usually talk about on forums and it is probably one of the brightest mics I've used. Good bright But bright. You can really hear that mid push from the tube preamp circuit too. Reminds me a bit of my m269 paired with my v76. Gets a bit grainy but with a very nice real mid resolution.
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Post by ragan on Feb 26, 2022 10:34:01 GMT -6
I feel like the Chandler guy must just really like bright. That TG mic was so pushed in the upper mids. Some people like it but I found it just bizarre. Every shootout I’ve heard with the REDD suggests it’s also really bright. A nice, interesting mic for sure, but very bright.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 26, 2022 10:57:13 GMT -6
Over the years, I seen many people online speak about how a U67 "takes EQ beautifully". Well, that's because it seems to NEED EQ often before sounding its best.
The Chandler to me was like a more transparent and better balanced Neumann. It has the same bigness the U67 has, and that's the only other mic I've ever used that does that particular U67 trick.
I found it no more mid-forward than any Neumann I've used. Where the REDD varies is the high end. It goes way high, but does it incredibly well.
So, like the U67 that needs EQ, a little EQ on the Chandler will do the same trick if you want to tame the highs. The nice thing is that you can dial it in to taste.
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Post by drsax on Feb 27, 2022 13:12:57 GMT -6
I can say unequivocally that the REDD mic is not mid forward. If something sounds mid forward through it, then it’s at the source, not the mic. I have mics that are mid forward. The REDD is not one of them. I have more time on the REDD than most as I’ve owned mine nearly as long as it’s been out. I’ve not once experienced mid forward tones from this mic. My Neumann mics though… I can confidently say that many of them, especially the ones with transformers, as nice as they are, exhibit obvious mid forward tendencies. The Redd is one of the most midforward mics I've used. Maybe we just mean different things. It is very, very bright in the 3-4khz range. I did like it allot but saying it's not midforward is very misleading. I own both a u47, m269 and tried most of the high-end boutique mics people usually talk about on forums and it is probably one of the brightest mics I've used. Good bright But bright. You can really hear that mid push from the tube preamp circuit too. Reminds me a bit of my m269 paired with my v76. Gets a bit grainy but with a very nice real mid resolution. yeah, where one defines mid range makes a difference in how we view a microphone’s response. I see 250-500Hz as low midrange, 500Hz-2000Hz as Midrange, and 2000Hz-4000Hz as upper midrange. I haven’t personally found the REDD accentuated in the upper mids…. But, many converters I’ve used DO accentuate that range. I record my REDD through my Burl AD and don’t experience any upper mid push with the REDD. That said, my apollo converters (although I like them) do have a more noticeable push in that upper mid range. Of course there is a massive price difference between those converters. Anyway, that’s my experience. And recording saxophone, which is generally quite pronounced in the 2-4K range, I haven’t heard the REDD as being overly pronounced in the upper mids. But I have encountered plenty of sources that are harsh in that range. In those cases I’d either EQ, or if the source is really pronounced in that range, I might use a different mic (a dark mic or a ribbon mic). My experience with the REDD, as opposed to many mics I’ve used, is that that it takes EQ beautifully after the fact, better than most mics - whether cutting or boosting. But… a dark, vintage Neumann it is not.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 27, 2022 16:45:31 GMT -6
I could tell performing on the REDD (through cans), reminds me of being in front of a live audience. FWIW I ALWAYS sing better live, than being recorded. Backed up by the local Club live sound engineers, who recorded me "through the board"/their unsolicited comments. So not "Just my imagination-running away with me". It's that combo of excitement/fear and pure adrenaline-and dancing onstage if warranted! (Anyway for me) Chris P.S. Whereas getting recorded, some of George Martin's "Ketchup" (Lennon)-including Reverb... Is a vulnerability of mine.
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