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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 12, 2020 18:24:16 GMT -6
"Grasshopper" (me!) asks... Dan could you give us a general idea, of how you did that recording? For example, how close are you micing the vocals? Etc. These are fantastic captures. Those harmonies are amazing too. I'm learning "If I Can Only Win Your Love"-Louvin Bros. & Emmy Lou's version BTW. Both lead and harmony. Were the harmony parts recorded at the same time, or overdubbed? With all due respect to Ross, IMHO Sally's Neumann vocal, is great "as is" too. Although I agree, a quality ribbon would be the alternative choice. (I love Alison's voice/fiddle playing (& Dan T.) too BTW) Thanks, Chris Let me give a little background. This track is from my record West of West Virginia, which was just released. However, the actual recording took place in several stages, starting in 2012. We cut it with a standard bluegrass band, but I kept wanting to get Buck Trent on his electric banjo from the Porter Wagoner Show. He recorded the original cut in 1967 with Porter and Dolly Parton. After sitting on the track for a few years, I finally asked Buck to cut it in 2017...exactly 50 years later, which was damn cool. The bass and mandolin are from 2012. The electric banjo, fiddle, and acoustic guitar from 2017. I used Sally's original 2012 vocal track, which (I believe) was recorded into a Peluso P12, into (probably) a Presonus ADL 600, and an LA2A. To get nerdier, Buck's engineer sent me a DI track of the electric banjo. I reamped it through a Fender Vibrolux. I then retracked my own vocal in 2017 through a Flea 47, which is on the album. The comparison video above is just me singing along karaoke-style with my original vocal muted. Sally lives here in East Tennessee. She was my voice student at ETSU and eventually began teaching voice for us a few years ago. She toured for several years with her mom, Grand Ole Opry star Rhonda Vincent. We love singing duets together, and her harmony is always spot on!
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 12, 2020 18:51:59 GMT -6
It's wonderful that you got such a great mic Dan. It's funny, when I bought my Ela M251, which costs about 10,000 dollars more than a U47 and mentioned it in the latest gear thread I couldn't get a rise out of anyone. I was so surprised. An M251 cost 10 grand MORE than a 47?
Really?
Wow.
So what's the current going price for a 47 in good shape?
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 12, 2020 19:14:40 GMT -6
Yes John. If you look around a decent U47 is going for 14-16,000 dollars, an Ela M251 between 20-25,000 dollars though I haven't seen any at 20,000 in a while.
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Post by ragan on Jul 12, 2020 19:47:20 GMT -6
*puts truck on Craigslist*
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 12, 2020 19:51:15 GMT -6
*puts truck on Craigslist* *puts house on Craigslist* OK, not really.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 12, 2020 19:58:06 GMT -6
Thanks so much Dan, for the detailed information. If you told me, you were all in one room... I would have believed it! Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 12, 2020 20:02:42 GMT -6
Okay, okay! JUST ONE MORE... This is it, I swear. Well, you got me. I just bought the album.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 12, 2020 20:13:35 GMT -6
...dupe...
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Post by Guitar on Jul 12, 2020 20:18:44 GMT -6
*Puts both kidneys and both lungs on black market*
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 13, 2020 8:22:27 GMT -6
Well I own a U47 and an Ela M251 along with many other wonderful mics and I will say it is easier spending that money on a microphone knowing that you will get your investment back if you decide to sell rather than buying a 3-5000 dollar mic knowing you have lost half your investment as soon as you open the box.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2020 8:36:59 GMT -6
Well I own a U47 and an Ela M251 along with many other wonderful mics and I will say it is easier spending that money on a microphone knowing that you will get your investment back if you decide to sell rather than buying a 3-5000 dollar mic knowing you have lost half your investment as soon as you open the box. There is something to be said for this, for sure. Can’t seem to get my wife on board, though. Btw - is $12.5k like a pristine 47 with a VF14? Knowing the VF14 was a finite investment would make me paranoid.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2020 8:45:09 GMT -6
Okay, okay! JUST ONE MORE... This is it, I swear. Just listening on my iPhone, but damn, the way these vintage 47’s handle the top - honestly, any vintage Neumann or AKG - is just THE difference. It reproduces the sibilant range the way the human ear hears it in the real world. For the life of me, I have no idea why it can’t be done now. Maybe it’s the aging process that mellows the capsule...don’t know...but it’s amazing.
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 13, 2020 9:07:01 GMT -6
John 12.5k will get you a pretty beat U47. I keep a couple of spare VF14's just for that reason but these days even they are going for close to 3000 bucks apiece.
People do seem to be pleased with their EF800 or EF12 tubed mics so there's hope
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Post by Ward on Jul 13, 2020 9:44:42 GMT -6
SNIP People do seem to be pleased with their EF800 or EF12 tubed mics so there's hope Pleased? Nay, thrilled and delighted! My Heiserman H47 choob has said EF800 in it, and boy howdy . . . you need scientific measurement tools to really tell the difference. Or the greatest ears in the world. Ok, I may be a little enthusiastic but I'm not prone to gross exaggeration.
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Post by Ward on Jul 13, 2020 9:51:23 GMT -6
It reproduces the sibilant range the way the human ear hears it in the real world. For the life of me, I have no idea why it can’t be done now. Maybe it’s the aging process that mellows the capsule...don’t know...but it’s amazing. Is it because the target market has been conditioned with extremely hyped asian origin microphones... and more 'presence' 'high end' or 'air' sounds 'better'?
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 13, 2020 10:02:30 GMT -6
Someone PLEASE send bluegrassdan a Heiserman H47T to test next to a FleA 47 and his beautiful original U47.
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Post by Ward on Jul 13, 2020 10:06:16 GMT -6
Someone PLEASE send bluegrassdan a Heiserman H47T to test next to a FleA 47 and his beautiful original U47. Ok . . . Heiserman, wave, tskguy, mdmitch2 . . . Dan isn't all that far away from you fine gents. Can you do it?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 13, 2020 10:29:33 GMT -6
I don’t even need to put them next to each other to tell you that the Flea lacks the low end and most especially the tightness. It’s a very slow mic by comparison. The high mid frequencies area also sounds very different.
That VF14 makes a certain difference.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2020 10:51:11 GMT -6
I don’t even need to put them next to each other to tell you that the Flea lacks the low end and most especially the tightness. It’s a very slow mic by comparison. The high mid frequencies area also sounds very different. That VF14 makes a certain difference. I’ve got the Heiserman, but my experience with doing anything like that is that the vintage always sounds better. That being said, for what I’m doing, they are close enough. I also know me and know that I would obsess over the VF14 going bad. Same reason I’d never own a Fairchild - or even the new ones. Too many variables. Oh...and I don’t have $15k
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Post by chessparov on Jul 13, 2020 11:53:19 GMT -6
Another factor for me, is that compared to a bunch of you on this thread, who also record other people...
If I had an original U47 (or 251), it would wind up being mostly (or entirely) "just for me". I feel better about a microphone like that, being available for a wider variety of singers and instrumentalists. Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 13, 2020 14:14:09 GMT -6
I don’t even need to put them next to each other to tell you that the Flea lacks the low end and most especially the tightness. It’s a very slow mic by comparison. The high mid frequencies area also sounds very different. That VF14 makes a certain difference. That's how I would describe the FleA 47 vs the Wagner 47 I had some experience with. For me it's about knowing I cannot afford an original. I'm curious which of those two gets closest, as either of these would be a more appropriate for my budget. I also need to hear everything for myself.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 13, 2020 14:45:53 GMT -6
If I were buying a new mic it would hands down be the Flea 47. I really did enjoy using mine. It was never "wrong" on anything. I tried out the Flea 49 Next at Vintage King LA a couple years ago and that was equally stunning.
Buying directly from Klaus put my mind at ease regarding the tube and originality. I almost bought a long body nickel top from another reputable outfit (not VK), but it had too many non-original components.
And Tim is correct. In the stepping stones toward the real thing, I found myself buying a Rode K2 back when I was super poor for $699. Sold it on eBay years later for like $350 (after fees and shipping). Bought a pair of sdc mics for $1,100 and lost several hundred bucks when I sold them. Bought the Flea and sold it for like $700 less than what I paid. However, when I bought an RCA 44, I sold it for more a couple years later.
My wife was convinced when we looked at the prices of U47s 10, 15, 20 years ago compared to now. My Tennessee State retirement and 401k are going in the opposite direction these days.
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Post by tskguy on Jul 13, 2020 14:52:38 GMT -6
I'm sure we can make that happen, Dan are you in the Nashville area?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 13, 2020 14:54:11 GMT -6
No. I'm in Johnson City.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2020 14:56:14 GMT -6
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