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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 5:55:54 GMT -6
I have to accept the fact that my pair KM184 are gone (2 years ago).
A longer story, but never borrow gear to anyone.
I just remember that the 184 are foolproof. They sound great what ever is in front of them, good guitar, bad guitar, hard strumming finger picking. Bad sounding room, good sounding room.... they worked in 99% of the cases.
At the time I am on the Dynamic MIC - trip ...
I think it's a good reminder.
KM184 is not option due to my COVID-19 losses @ 650 Euro.
-
My retailer mentioned the WARM KM84 copy as good as the real deal.
The 3U Audio was mentioned with and without transformer coupling as good as NKMs.
You worked with one of the contenders? Let me know your opinion!
KM 184
| Neumann | 699 €
| KM84 CLONE
| WARM AUDIO
| 399 € | | 3U Audio Warbler | 127-C-Flat | 280€ |
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Post by Vincent R. on May 1, 2020 7:16:21 GMT -6
Sorry to hear someone stole your microphones. That stinks. Here is a comparison between the KM184 and the WA84. Should give you some idea how they compare. I don’t own either, so I can’t really comment.
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Post by theshea on May 1, 2020 7:30:20 GMT -6
Been turned on to the warbler 127 c-flat by ragan. He posted some km84 vs 127 sounsamples here and that made me buy the 127‘s. I don‘t regret it. went for the cardoid c-flat and use them mainly for acoustic guitar recording. They do delivery nice smooth sounds no mather what guitar and what player.
I‘ve got no expierence with km184 except beeing miked with them when i played a live radio show some 10 years ago, so i can‘t compare them to the warbler 127.
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Post by sean on May 1, 2020 7:36:31 GMT -6
***sorry to recommend other microphones I don't have experience with those models but lots of experience with KM184s and KM84s
Have you consider the Oktava MK-012-01? I find them incredible useful. I have 5 of them (and 3 KM84s). They have a similar vibe to KM84s. Another one of my favorite affordable SDCs are AKG C460B-ULS with the CK61. They are fairly neutral sounding and are around $250 second hand.
Both those microphones also have swappable capsules. AKG makes some really great omni capsules. And with an adapter you can use the old CK1 capsule as well if you want a brighter sound from the 460
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2020 7:42:22 GMT -6
Just get the Soyuz 0-13 FET and you're golden. It's worth every penny and is the only SDC I've heard that competes favorably with the KM-84.
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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 8:00:29 GMT -6
Just get the Soyuz 0-13 FET and you're golden. It's worth every penny and is the only SDC I've heard that competes favorably with the KM-84.
Sure I understand but I have 50% lesser income due COVIT19. It's not an option...
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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 8:04:23 GMT -6
***sorry to recommend other microphones I don't have experience with those models but lots of experience with KM184s and KM84s Have you consider the Oktava MK-012-01? I find them incredible useful. I have 5 of them (and 3 KM84s). They have a similar vibe to KM84s. Another one of my favorite affordable SDCs are AKG C460B-ULS with the CK61. They are fairly neutral sounding and are around $250 second hand. Both those microphones also have swappable capsules. AKG makes some really great omni capsules. And with an adapter you can use the old CK1 capsule as well if you want a brighter sound from the 460
Interesting advise.... Heard Oktava Samples on dreadnought and thought that the HF range smears is less detailed compared to KM184. With the 184 I can hear a string separation which I can't hear with the MKs
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Post by Omicron9 on May 1, 2020 8:27:19 GMT -6
***sorry to recommend other microphones I don't have experience with those models but lots of experience with KM184s and KM84s Have you consider the Oktava MK-012-01? I find them incredible useful. I have 5 of them (and 3 KM84s). They have a similar vibe to KM84s. Another one of my favorite affordable SDCs are AKG C460B-ULS with the CK61. They are fairly neutral sounding and are around $250 second hand. Both those microphones also have swappable capsules. AKG makes some really great omni capsules. And with an adapter you can use the old CK1 capsule as well if you want a brighter sound from the 460 +1 on the 460. Another option is the Shure KSM-141. Cardioid and omni. Truly wonderful mics that excel in many applications, and have the usual Shure build quality. Highly recommended. The 141 pair in omni is my favorite classical guitar setup. -09 |
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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 8:39:28 GMT -6
Been turned on to the warbler 127 c-flat by ragan. He posted some km84 vs 127 sounsamples here and that made me buy the 127‘s. I don‘t regret it. went for the cardoid c-flat and use them mainly for acoustic guitar recording. They do delivery nice smooth sounds no mather what guitar and what player. I‘ve got no expierence with km184 except beeing miked with them when i played a live radio show some 10 years ago, so i can‘t compare them to the warbler 127.
ragan would love to hear those samples. |
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Post by EmRR on May 1, 2020 8:58:17 GMT -6
Have you consider the Oktava MK-012-01? Interesting advise.... Heard Oktava Samples on dreadnought and thought that the HF range smears is less detailed compared to KM184. With the 184 I can hear a string separation which I can't hear with the MKs
In my experience a modified Oktava makes the top end clear up considerably, with perhaps some detriment to the bass, but then they are very bassy mics to begin with. I thought a modified example matched the top of my KM140 pretty well, unmodified examples did not. |
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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 9:11:14 GMT -6
Interesting advise.... Heard Oktava Samples on dreadnought and thought that the HF range smears is less detailed compared to KM184. With the 184 I can hear a string separation which I can't hear with the MKs
In my experience a modified Oktava makes the top end clear up considerably, with perhaps some detriment to the bass, but then they are very bassy mics to begin with. I thought a modified example matched the top of my KM140 pretty well, unmodified examples did not.
ok and which mod is this?
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Post by Bender on May 1, 2020 9:12:00 GMT -6
I’d go 127 warblers- I have a pair of the non flat cardioid and love em. As close as I’ll get to the real deal in foreseeable future unless a great 70s pair comes up and the price is unbelievable
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Post by EmRR on May 1, 2020 9:12:47 GMT -6
In my experience a modified Oktava makes the top end clear up considerably, with perhaps some detriment to the bass, but then they are very bassy mics to begin with. I thought a modified example matched the top of my KM140 pretty well, unmodified examples did not.
ok and which mod is this?
The one EVERYONE does to Oktavas. Most commonly known as the Joly mod, the Dorsey mod, then the Sitler mod, all based on or same as Dorsey. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2020 9:39:30 GMT -6
Used c460’s, my personal favorite if your patient a pair of used Sony C535p’s. If you can find a T power adapters some of the early Sennhiser MKH can be had pretty cheap if you move fast.
On the cheap Old C451’s and Shure SM81’s are not as bad as everyone says. If you put one up on OH or acoustic, move it around a bit you will hear the sound of the 80’s and early 90’s.
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Post by EmRR on May 1, 2020 9:43:14 GMT -6
If you can find a T power adapters some of the early Sennhiser MKH can be had pretty cheap if you move fast. Duh, right. Those should be all around you, and you can probably try them first too. When I got my MKH 406's it convinced me to sell my KM140's. They may come with a T supply already. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2020 9:47:16 GMT -6
If you can find a T power adapters some of the early Sennhiser MKH can be had pretty cheap if you move fast. Duh, right. Those should be all around you, and you can probably try them first too. When I got my MKH 406's it convinced me to sell my KM140's. They may come with a T supply already. I’m always amazed at how many people don’t know how cheap adaptors are these days and dump great old mics! |
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Post by thirdeye on May 1, 2020 10:02:37 GMT -6
I've not used the 127, but I do have a WA84 and (2) KM84s. I thought the WA84 compared nicely on acoustic guitar in the setup we tried. My opinion was the WA has a bigger low end than the KM, midrange on the WA was not as articulate and 3D as the KM, but the top end was similar. What I wish I'd tried was a comparison of their off axis response which is where the KM84 shines!! I think for the price, the WA is a good choice though. Warm have a kit now with cardioid and omni capsules. I think the price just dropped on them as well.
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Post by brenta on May 1, 2020 11:06:04 GMT -6
I had the Warbler 127 with flat and regular capsules. I also used to own KM184s and have used 84s extensively.
I didn’t love the Warbler 127s but didn’t hate them either. The off-axis response was pretty horrid. Ex: when micing an acoustic where the guys was singing and playing at the same time it picked up an absurd amount of sibilance.
I have the Soyuz fet SDC’s now and am much happier.
I haven’t tried the Warm but of the two choices I would go for those over the Warblers. 3U makes the capsules in both mics but the Warm has arguably a better transformer.
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Post by drbill on May 1, 2020 13:46:20 GMT -6
The MODDED Oktava 012's are the closest thing to KM84's that I have heard. I proved it with that clip that intercut back and forth between KM84 and Joly modded 012 13X's that no one could hear the cuts on. They are better than 184's for me. That said, overall, in a wide variety of circumstances, the 84's are still preferred here. But the Joly 012's are EXTREMELY close. And the top end is not smeary after the mod. But the LF is bigger on the 012's than my 84's - for better or worse. The 84's can pull further off a source, and can take bad rooms better.
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2020 15:05:50 GMT -6
Been turned on to the warbler 127 c-flat by ragan. He posted some km84 vs 127 sounsamples here and that made me buy the 127‘s. I don‘t regret it. went for the cardoid c-flat and use them mainly for acoustic guitar recording. They do delivery nice smooth sounds no mather what guitar and what player. I‘ve got no expierence with km184 except beeing miked with them when i played a live radio show some 10 years ago, so i can‘t compare them to the warbler 127.
ragan would love to hear those samples. A bunch of 3U SDC clips here (transformerless CM100 and transformer coupled Warbler 127): realgearonline.com/thread/6384/new-3u-sdcsAnd here's the thread where I posted the 127 compared to a KM84 realgearonline.com/thread/8944/sdc-clips |
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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 16:13:28 GMT -6
The MODDED Oktava 012's are the closest thing to KM84's that I have heard. I proved it with that clip that intercut back and forth between KM84 and Joly modded 012 13X's that no one could hear the cuts on. They are better than 184's for me. That said, overall, in a wide variety of circumstances, the 84's are still preferred here. But the Joly 012's are EXTREMELY close. And the top end is not smeary after the mod. But the LF is bigger on the 012's than my 84's - for better or worse. The 84's can pull further off a source, and can take bad rooms better.
Good news seems they produce the newer ones already like the suggested modification. Now it's the Oktava or the Warbler... LOL
I live in the EX GDR area it should be something PUTIN...😂
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2020 16:21:09 GMT -6
This may seem like a suggestion from another end completely, but my friend has had great results with his Lewitt 640 mic. He's on his second album with it now. You may want to research the lower priced Lewitt's, they're kind of like AKG's but warmer and fuller. There's also this. I'm sure it's mostly a Chinese rebadge with a little tweaking, but a friend recorded the NY Philharmonic with Schoeps SDC's and at the same time for fun, recorded with the cheap Gauge-USA mics. The conductor and producer chose the Guage for their record! www.gauge-usa.com/collections/microphones/products/ecm-84-condenser-microphone |
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Post by WKG on May 1, 2020 16:26:50 GMT -6
Looks like there's a sale on the Soyuz 013 FET until May 31. 539 USD, 486 Euro at the current conversion rate.
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Post by Guitar on May 1, 2020 16:42:20 GMT -6
I had the WA84 here, didn't like them. I found them a little too muddy sounding.
KM184 is "bright and tight" but I love that sound, so I know where you're coming from.
Right now I'm looking for Beyer MC930. There are some deals out there, lots of positive feedback.
Oktava MK 012 with mods are great. I like them on acoustics. I don't like them over a drum set. They have this sort of 2K upper mid presence to them that is nice on stringy things. And the "warm" sound from the low end or whatever. Top is not super clear, that's why I don't like them over cymbals/drums. Yes, mods help but only as much as they can IMO. If you get them, do have the mods done, easy call.
I also really like the KSM141 and KSM137. They are so neutral and clear enough that they work almost anywhere.
The KM184, to me, was the "next level" out of the mid grade stuff. I want to see if the MC930 can get me there. Before I just start shopping for KM184 or KM84 again.
That's the thing you have to surpass. To me the Warm mic was mid grade at best. Shure/Oktava all day for standard fare, and realistic prices. I have a pair of each.
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Post by mrholmes on May 1, 2020 16:46:41 GMT -6
I had the WA84 here, didn't like them. I found them a little too muddy sounding. KM184 is "bright and tight" but I love that sound, so I know where you're coming from. Right now I'm looking for Beyer MC930. There are some deals out there, lots of positive feedback. Oktava MK 012 with mods are great. I like them on acoustics. I don't like them over a drum set. They have this sort of 2K upper mid presence to them that is nice on stringy things. And the "warm" sound from the low end or whatever. Top is not super clear, that's why I don't like them over cymbals/drums. Yes, mods help but only as much as they can IMO. If you get them, do have the mods done, easy call. I also really like the KSM141 and KSM137. They are so neutral and clear enough that they work almost anywhere. The KM184, to me, was the "next level" out of the mid grade stuff. I want to see if the MC930 can get me there. Before I just start shopping for KM184 or KM84 again. That's the thing you have to surpass. To me the Warm mic was mid grade at best. Shure/Oktava all day for standard fare, and realistic prices. I have a pair of each.
Totally forgot about the MC 930 some here in Germany love them over the KM 184
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