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Post by mrholmes on May 13, 2020 7:32:04 GMT -6
Dear RGOs.
Thanks again for your input and advice.
I have no idea which devil rode me that I could do without the KM184 for two years. I did try four times inexpensive SDCs, and I was four times not happy. The KM180 family is simply a class of its own. Even close on axis @ 14th fret the guitar sounds 90% more like what I would expect from the players position.
Just 30 seconds of recording showed many flaws of inexpensive China Microphones.
Neumann KM 184
• There is nothing harsh, not a single resonance is hyped, it's a solid sound picture.
• The signal is to 90% where I want it. • EQing works excellent, the signal is not collapsing.
• Placing the mic is easy.
• Room sound is more together with the guitar - even if it's not the best sounding room. • Room sound is suppressed in close / with the cheapos the room sound is often as loud as the direct signal.
If gear makes a big difference? Then yes start with a great microphone.
I will never again buy a china mic, what ever some marketing people tell me.
To me this shows that globalization is producing crap. When I ever hear again that the china car or china guitar is as good as a Mercedes-Benz or a Martin guitar. I will just smile and do it my way.
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Post by mrholmes on May 12, 2020 12:10:21 GMT -6
I don't need the most of this.... and it gets even faster and faster, I want to slow down....
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Post by mrholmes on May 11, 2020 3:02:12 GMT -6
I just checked out the new DSEQ from TBProAudio as an alternative to soothe, and it seems to work really well on acoustic guitars, especially for this particular issue. Definitely worth checking out. But in general, here’s an approach that seems to work pretty consistently for me: - One or two narrow cuts between 100 - 300Hz, at specific resonant frequencies, usually 7 - 10dB - One wider cut in the same range, about 3 - 5dB, just to de-emphasize the LF/LMF a bit - One narrow cut at the most annoying upper midrange peak, usually around 4kHz, again about 7 - 10dB I try to think of this as my starting point, and then keep it very simple from there (compress/distort to taste, brighten or darken, etc). I’ve definitely had to learn NOT to obsessively hunt down problem frequencies. The less I chase after spectral perfection, the more natural my guitars sound.
It's an interesting topic because guitars are based on resonances. There are also papers about it and for all my guitars I can confirm that there is always some more or some lesser low-end air around 100Hz / 200Hz. Depending on the playing the region around 1 kHz can be pretty annoying with not so great microphones.
I find compression pretty hard to do on acoustics. It can sound great or it can ruin everything - IMO two extremes.
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Post by mrholmes on May 11, 2020 2:45:19 GMT -6
AGAIN it goes also overseas now? I mean, there will be an upcharge, but I’ll split it with you. That being said, I don’t think either of us want a $150 t-shirt lol
Anyway can say how much that would be going the cheapest way to Germany. My guesswork is it's the LOGO of the forum, so I take a gray one in L.
If the costs including the shirt go way up count me out because we don't know when work starts again over here. Otherwise, you could send me the LOGO I let print a shirt and I make donation to RGO pay pal account.
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Post by mrholmes on May 10, 2020 18:36:48 GMT -6
Dang, that's good! If you know what you're doing it's probably a must have. I'd most likely just use a preset, ha! He is using presets in the demo and it sounds awesome....
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Post by mrholmes on May 10, 2020 17:32:32 GMT -6
Thx, I know about this and that it is possible, but I had read it’s kind of burdensome with a dual boot and like two operating systems? Neat that they got it working but I’d just get a newer machine that was designed for tbolt.
If it runs stable I don't see a problem to run a partition with Windows to make it work. Did it in the past for other things - Windows worked like breeze on the mac.
I upgraded CPU and RAM I had to do changes on the OSX for the CPU Upgrade.
Everybody told me I would get an unstable Mac but my Cheese Grater runs and runs and runs.
I have no doubt to try this when I get an T Bolt interface one day.
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Post by mrholmes on May 10, 2020 16:21:36 GMT -6
I’ve been trying to decide what to buy myself. At home I use HD Native Thunderbolt with a (cheap) Mac Mini and it works but I wouldn’t trust it with tracking. I don’t know if I should buy a modern Mac Mini or iMac...I have too many Thunderbolt interface to get an old 5,1 Mac Pro tower. The ol cheese grater doesn’t tbolt normally so not really good for tbolt? What drive is in the new mini above ? am still running a 2012 mbp i7, 2 internal ssd snd 16g Ram, works fine but have KB issues so use wireless KB.
Watch this.... T BOLT ON OLD 5.1
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Post by mrholmes on May 10, 2020 14:28:29 GMT -6
AGAIN it goes also overseas now?
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Post by mrholmes on May 9, 2020 17:43:59 GMT -6
Are you sure that you can do work on the road? I still recommend the old mac pro 5.1 12 cores @ 1.2K fully refurbished. They are still fast machines. With full-blown RAM they don't cost you a leg or an arm. You get 1-Year warranty on top I could not be happier with my computer... I still run a mac pro 1.1 upgraded as server for Vienna. Unbelievable stable machine.... i run a Mac Pro 5,1 as my daily studio machine, and while it’s great, a current MBP smokes it in terms of performance, as do the iMac Mini or iMac options mentioned above. How much is the current mbp and maybe it's the loudest mbp again?
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Post by mrholmes on May 9, 2020 6:07:05 GMT -6
Are you sure that you can do work on the road? I still recommend the old mac pro 5.1 12 cores @ 1.2K fully refurbished.
They are still fast machines. With full-blown RAM they don't cost you a leg or an arm. You get 1-Year warranty on top I could not be happier with my computer...
I still run a mac pro 1.1 upgraded as server for Vienna. Unbelievable stable machine....
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2020 20:11:31 GMT -6
BTW another HW alike sounding plug in is the Fuse Labs VCL4. Smash a LV with 15db GR and you smile because its near invisible.
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2020 17:33:39 GMT -6
How do you decide in removing resonances wolf tones by instruments?
Resonances are so obvious with one of my acoustics it made me revisiting files/mixes which were taken in pro places, with some of my more expensive guitars as well as some which my guitar store gave me for tracking.
I can't find a single acoustic guitar without resonances.
On the more expensive ones they may sound nicer that's it. Seems to be pretty much the same case as with room acoustics - you can't have it perfect.
Removing resonances often removes the character of the instrument as well.
Very often I remove them switch on and of the EQ and I decide to go with the resonances.
Before tracking, move the microphone or change the microphone. Pulling it back further can really help with this. dealing with resonances after you've already tracked, try the TDR slick eq GE and the "deresonate" function. you have to be gentle with it, don't be heavy handed, and it can do wonders VERY naturally.
Thanks for the slick EQ tip because removing them by hand is time-consuming. I also realized that I had lesser body / port resonances using KM184 in close. It seems to me that some mics emphasize resonances where others make the picture more smooth.
My two 184 got stolen lucky me that I get a new one soon. Damn COVID-19 makes delivery a looooong wait.
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2020 9:10:04 GMT -6
I'm glad they finally added a phase flip, trim, and the hi pass filter with VUMT. I remember emailing them years and years ago asking them to implement that, and like stormymondays said it's on every channel so I can check phase and trim down tracks that are recorded too hot. Handy when sending to outboard for mixing.
GRRRR not getting it should not an VU also react on the low end?
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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2020 10:41:32 GMT -6
Just a word on this one. ABing with recordings done with the KM 140 there is no contest.
They fall short in every aspect.
Dynamics / Resolution / Depth / Dimension etc.
I can hear why people like drbill into Neumann KMs
Beleiving it can be done on the cheap is not getting me the results I want to hear in my speakers.
I’m confused. The Neumann KM140 is almost identical to the KM184. Did you mean the 040?
typo 184
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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2020 8:34:41 GMT -6
mrholmes please tell me you are buying a 184 used. They are everywhere and can be had at a pretty decent discount off of MSRP in excellent condition. Some people require handholding and blindly purchase at full MSRP from Vintage King or Sweetwater...they pay for the "privilege" of returning (and for all the other deadbeats that return once they've tracked their record....trust me, that happens). I have always shopped for used gear in excellent condition from trustworthy buyers. And when I require something new, I know exactly what it is and that I'm not going to return it...I order from certain dealers who are known for the best prices but are not into coddling buyers because their margin is so tight. Our fearless leader Johnkenn is a great one to talk with about new purchases.
There are reasons why I bought new, first one is Neumann are Berlin (I love you) homies. I want to support them during COVID-19. Second one is I don't trust used mics in higher ranges at least the seller can show me a measurement which is not too long ago.
I may, can save 200 bucks and miss 3 years full guarantee and free service just in case something is wrong.
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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2020 8:30:34 GMT -6
For those who are interested in my LEWITT 040 MATCH TRY. I just noodled a bit on my Dreadnought @ 7,8 inches away from the 12 fret on axis, to suppress the bad sounding room.
I know art, gear and sonics can be subjective, and I know some mic's are standards for legitimate sonic reasons while other mic's seem to be legitimized or de-legitimized by brand or price range before sonics, but I don't think they sound bad and agree with your earlier comment they are far better than the NT5 along with remembering how many acoustic tracks sound solo'd when they are Eq'd to sit in however busy a mix they're in, ...my impression from clips and video demos is that like several of the Lewitt mic's they punch above their price weight. I'd be curious to hear the 140 version with the pad, 80 low cut and flat or air switches.
Just a word on this one. ABing with recordings done with the KM 140 there is no contest.
They fall short in every aspect.
Dynamics / Resolution / Depth / Dimension etc.
I can hear why people like drbill into Neumann KMs
Beleiving it can be done on the cheap is not getting me the results I want to hear in my speakers.
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 18:41:36 GMT -6
Its crazy I had forgotten how a great mic sounds. When I pulled out my old files my mouth stood wide and open. A single mic depth dimension silk like top end nothing sounds harsh...open...... the bases are not just bases, they are strong and there is no fear to EQ them. I just hit buy a few minutes ago.... Just ask myself why run in cycles about such a topic. OK ADD..... I have to stop this NEXT TIME I JUST TRUST MYSELF.....
Damn it.... I fight this every day.......
You ordered another KM184? Cool! Sometimes I troll around with cheaper newer gear and just hope its good, once in a while you get lucky. Kind of a wake up call, like you said, when it's not. I'm about to send back another new thing I just got. A Steinberg UR24C. It's just not quite there sound wise. That makes two in a row of things that had to go back to sweetwater. Just a little demoralizing, but they accept returns graciously enough. I hope the stuff coming tomorrow is better.
Sometimes cheap can be good. Have P Base it sounds like a P base and was about 200 bucks. Most of the B. gear is bang for the buck.
I now learned for now and the rest of my time.
It's a bad idea to make compromises on the source.
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 17:46:42 GMT -6
In the sub $200 price range I haven't heard a whole lot of great condenser mics. The KSM137 and Oktava MK 012 (used prices on these) stand out by far in this price range. I only paid about a hundred bucks each for my Oktavas.
Its crazy I had forgotten how a great mic sounds. When I pulled out my old files my mouth stood wide and open.
A single mic depth dimension silk like top end nothing sounds harsh...open...... the bases are not just bases, they are strong and there is no fear to EQ them.
I just hit buy a few minutes ago....
Just ask myself why run in cycles about such a topic. OK ADD..... I have to stop this NEXT TIME I JUST TRUST MYSELF.....
Damn it.... I fight this every day.......
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 16:51:10 GMT -6
I remembered the Phoenix verb was very realistic, but it had been many years back when I heard it. I always wanted one, but having the UAD EMT-140, the Relab XL480, the Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven, Sound Toys Little Plate and a few others, it just wasn't worth it. I did jump on the sale though. I haven't been tracking lately, so I have no idea if I'll ever use it or not, but it was great to get it just in case. Swafford, how would you describe the difference between the R2 and Phoenix Verb?
The P verb rules the 7th H with ease IMO. Just the way how it glues with the signal...
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 16:00:25 GMT -6
I'm hearing some sibilant top end / treble. Not that surprising at the price point.
.... thanks for your words monkey....
Watched my savings.....
The WINNER IS......KM184.
The simple truth is that Quality costs' money. At least in mics there is yet no workaround.
Its just impressive how the KM184 captures a guitar, even if you go close.... There is no contest compared to my old recordings.
Just like you hear it...
If I remember right positioning was a lot easier too.... even easier than with my UMT70
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 14:24:05 GMT -6
I'm hearing some sibilant top end / treble. Not that surprising at the price point.
7 Inches away from the 12th fret my KM184 was pretty sibilant too. Not to forget I am 100% on axis. And I use a bright pick.
EDIT PULLED OUT SOME OLD KM 184 TRACKS....
You are right no contest...
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 13:46:06 GMT -6
For those who are interested in my LEWITT 040 MATCH TRY. I just noodled a bit on my Dreadnought @ 7,8 inches away from the 12 fret on axis, to suppress the bad sounding room.
EDIT.
AFTER I ABed with older KM 184 tracks... NO CONTEST Positive is the off axis thing...
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 13:19:14 GMT -6
Total sell out I thought it is crazy when P-verb was at 40 bucks and I forgot to buy it. Now I bought it at 8 bucks here in EU. One of the most natural sounding reverb plug ins a must-have for those who can't afford a nice tracking room, but they love acoustic music.
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2020 5:11:43 GMT -6
OK here in GERMANY MAY NEEDS A Relaunch AND A MORE MODERN DESIGN.... WORD PRESS IS YOUR Friend....
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Post by mrholmes on May 5, 2020 14:02:33 GMT -6
So far the LEWITT 040 cheapo arrived. Just had a few minutes with it.
I need to spend more time with it.
Its good and it works the dynamics well, but not as detailed and lively like an KM140. Everything else would have been a big surprise.
Very stable off axis I like this.
I have my doubts that EQing works well with the Lewitt signal.
Give me some more time....
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