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Post by jazznoise on Feb 9, 2018 9:54:25 GMT -6
Have to agree that a band should rehearse a whole lot before recording a record. It's hard to emphasize, pre-production is the record. It's where you decide things, it's where aesthetic decisions that will be done can be discussed and maybe even demo'd and evaluated while money/time factors are not stressing everyone out. RE: Foldback effects. Usually a room mic on the headphone feed. If we're running modulation, pitch or distortion FX, they will be monitoring that.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 29, 2018 18:40:59 GMT -6
If we're looking for simple tricks in pop music - 2nd verse comes: Mute something. Use things like Hipassing and Flanging like a DJ would on a mixer. Reverse tricks for fade ins. Print the chorus 0.5dB louder than the chorus. Take the double track, apply extreme FX to it and cut between it.
In terms of a band style production, ideally the band is left as uninterfered as possible and then everything after that is done in sympathy with the band's ideas. Often that means just capturing the sounds as well as possible, helping them chose sounds where they're unsure, and not really fucking with them too hard from that. You can use stuff, but don't get obsessed with your toys when there's a perfectly good song in front of you.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 29, 2018 3:46:18 GMT -6
I think the market rate reference probably makes a lot of sense for publishing companies and record companies who bulk sell music rights. Again we're all looking at it like independent businessmen and they're legislating for those with a monopoly on song ownership - which isn't artists.
Spotify took a serious hit over this. Not sure how I feel about it, it's more Silicon Valley vs. The World stuff but in this case I'd be quite happy to watch both fail. The record companies agreed the rates, it's only under the intense negative pressure that they've been forced to get more money for their artists. So they're doing it without losing a penny of their share, naturally.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 21, 2018 19:00:05 GMT -6
I have the textbook that comes from originally, it's a german book that describes the dispersion pattern of most Orchestral instruments (including voice) and then the acoustics and the acoustic variability of performances spaces. Really good resource.
+1 on not going for the DI. Ever. They just don't sound good, at best they're for running into FX for when you're doing weirder stuff.
Did another session today with cello, did a Fig 8 about 3 feet above pointing down and it worked well enough. Bass response is lumpier than you'd get from an omni, but the sound was the most appropriate for the type sound we were going with.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 20, 2018 21:06:41 GMT -6
For something reasonably dry/close I'd opt for a bright LDC (usually my Oktava MK220) in Omni about 2-3 feet back, placed closed to the point where the neck of the instrument joins the body. If bleed is an issue use it in figure 8 and point the nulls at the other musician, but be aware that strong proximity effect can make a cello or double bass feel uneven from note to note. You'll notice people tending towards more directional mics will take a top-down approach to avoid interference from the F holes.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 18, 2018 12:53:40 GMT -6
Audience here the kit in mono, drummer hears the kit in stereo. So drummers perspective always, unless I'm instructed otherwise.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 16, 2018 10:32:30 GMT -6
Reverb on close mics almost always sounds like an effect, I rarely if ever do it as a mixing thing. As an effect, it can have its own place.
Agreed massively on room sounds, you can augment a space or smoothen out the character or add some early reflections but you can't make a space something that it isn't. It's always been a marketing thing.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 15, 2018 4:47:05 GMT -6
If you're not sure about distance, chose an omni. It makes it easier to make a call on distance. If you decide you don't like certain reflections or the amount of ambiance on the center mic, then moving to a Fig 8 or Cardioid mic from there is sensible.
I like the idea of a ribbon side mic but they often don't sound as wide because they're relatively dark.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 10, 2018 6:01:34 GMT -6
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 9, 2018 16:26:38 GMT -6
Meh. That snare sound is trash.. Sounds like someone put the head on and got it to pitch, but didn't make the lugs equal. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't ever hear the Steven Slate Black Beauty snare sample and where are the Nuke'd room mics? What a hack. For real, I've seen this vid before and it's great. He's extremely transparent in his approach and it serves him. In terms of critiquing individual instrument sounds - meh. He's done enough good drum sounds for me to assume the snare tuning was what the guy playing drums wanted.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 25, 2017 13:22:30 GMT -6
Merry Christmas all! Hope 2018 is an even better year for everyone!
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 18, 2017 8:24:22 GMT -6
All I got is my Art MPAii and then the preamps in my 18i20 and my ADA8000. Gonna upgrade to an ADA8200 this year. I'd love a pair of 1073's,but anything else would just be so I could run processing in line. Any pre with a low enough noise floor is fine for me, really.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 11, 2017 3:04:32 GMT -6
I just yell over when I need to talk, but walkie talkies sound way more fun!!!
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 8, 2017 7:02:44 GMT -6
Usually it's just certain harmonics ringing out in the 120-180 range. A multiband over that range just to push some of those notes back into line will do the trick.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 6, 2017 4:16:00 GMT -6
Yes I agree with you then about reverb! Interesting. Do you find yourself using omnis much and if so what applications? I don't use omnis at all, but have been tempted recently to try them, obviously beyond the usual outrigger/organ/piano stuff. I think Omnis are a pretty essential part of my setup. Most commonly I use them as ambient microphones - AB pair on the floor in front of a drum kit, 6+ feet out from a singer during vocals but I also use them as close mics when I don't want a lot of proximity effect - That can be good for things like Cello or Double Bass where F holes start to quickly dictate placement if you're using cardioids or even just when you want a sort of photorealistic recording of a close instrument like a guitar cab. Probably very good on bass cab too if you're an RE20 fan. I also like things like the EV635a on vocals and brass where I want easy placement and flexibility in terms of distance. The off-axis response of cardioids tends to be frequency dependent, so some frequencies start to build and some to null, and it tends to make things sound strange. This is one of the reasons I like dead drum rooms OR huge drum rooms. The dead ones don't let errant reflections change the off-axis response much, and huge ones allow the time delay to be so great that the reflection doesn't cause comb filtering and other anomalies. Or just don't use cardioids in situations where they're not suited My view would be that I can't change the room, so I should be using the mics to 'work' it. You can do a lot to modify the early reflections with boundary microphones or the nulls of the figure 8 mics. Dead rooms are the nuclear option to me - controlling the reflections is very doable. It's in many ways down to topology and unfortunately cardioids are fussy about placement and in many scenarios the cons just outweigh the pros - the off axis response, the proximity effect.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 6, 2017 3:34:47 GMT -6
Yes but the e22s' sound great on everything, not just Tom Toms. I've access to a pair of KM184's. Until my recording budget moves on, those will be the only "fancypants" mics I'll be using. Cheers to @coil Audio and gouge for the advice on the ATM450's. I think I might pick some up over the summer, they're definitely brighter than the E22's from the graph I saw but not dramatically so. I'll be picking up an SM7 in the near future also, so if I'm not getting the low end I need I can always put that on Floor Tom duty.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 5, 2017 13:51:33 GMT -6
I do the same thing now. I will note that with not so reflective ceilings, fig 8 coles pick up a fair amount of pleasant malleable room compared to cardioid condensers which can pick up more problematic boxiness (wonder if it's standing waves), or m160s which are just tighter altogether, but as you said the fig 8 nulls help control amp bleed. So ironically I end up using less of the room mics. Also I do like to track live for performance and bleed reasons, things don't sound as canned. I don't entirely agree with what you said about synthetic reverb. Reverbs are not at all equal in my experience but the very best, like Bricasti TC 6000/Relab VSR or Exponential Nimbus can do a good job of softening and blending with captured early reflections and servings as "room" enhancement. Reverbs without sophisticated early reflection handling, not so much. They can enhance and lengthen tails/sustain, but don't do a good job with changing impression of early reflections which is half the battle. Likewise, if a room is no good and has poor early reflections, there's really not much you can do about it. Doesn't matter if it's a big or small room. Also I like parallel compression on the shells and a little master bus comp because it lets you leave the overheads sounding more open, and the drums sound bigger in the mix. Sorry, I think we actually do agree on reverbs but I might have misworded myself. I think synthetic reverb is fine to augment a room or overhead sound, but it's very hard to get it to work well on close mics. I'll add a reverb to give a room sound a smoother tail. Recently also started using parallels for close mics and sometimes for things like vocals where a boost in volume sounds too obvious. Not sure why cardioids are often so unflattered to room sounds. I sometimes wonder is it low frequency buildup at the rear of the capsule make it feel like the room response is lumpier than it is!
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 5, 2017 5:34:06 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the ATM450's? Small side address condensor, 150dB dynamic range with the pad and a 3-7Khz presence lift. On paper it seems like it'd be great for tom sounds and the profile would make placement easy, not too expensive either (I guess about 150 US dollars?). Being the Albini freak I am I'd love the E22's, but I'm not spending 4 figures on Tom Tom microphones.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 5, 2017 4:20:29 GMT -6
I prefer a deader sound for modern drums. It's a lot easier to add synthetic reverb and ambience than it is to take away too much captured during recording. Also, you have to remember that the amount of compression added during the mix will make the ambience you do capture sound more up front in the mix. I've heard plenty of recordings where folks recorded in a very "live" room but then once they added compression to get the modern "smack" of the drums, the room tone was unbearable.. So I always say less is more. Get your ambience from crushed room mics and reverb boxes, or reamp the overhead/room mics through speakers in a large room and add your ambience that way. Couldn't have a more opposite approach. Synthetic reverb on its own, to me, sounds synthetic and on slammed to death spot mics is a very stylized sound. It's like saying every dish in your kitchen is going to come with BBQ sauce. It's just not always appropriate in my view. The decisions on sonics and how the production is approach should all flow from the aesthetic of the band. If you set up your overheads and ambient mics well you can give instruments a sense of distance and panning from the get go. If you want less ambiance - turn down your ambient mics and keep your overheads closer on the kit. They're basic tracking decisions for me, I'm making that call with the band in the room after 30 minutes. Most of the time recording drums I'll be in the same studio and I typically use ribbon overheads, with the nulls angled at the guitar cabs to keep the isolation good (a lot of the time the cabs are *blasting* - last big day session had a 100W guitar amp and a 200W bass amp dimed). If they like big room-y or more natural stuff then I'll go for higher up overheads (maybe 6 feet above the snare), and if not I'll bring them down to maybe 4 feet. If that's still not dry enough I'll swap my ribbons out for something cardioid, but that's a rarity and there's a tradeoff in drum bleed. I generally wouldn't factor the parlor trick stuff - compression, synthetic reverb. They're a modifier to the existing sound, like some plate on a room mic sound to soften it or a parallel for the cymbals for a heavy section. Going back to what others said. The main difference to me for under vs. overhead room mics is the ratio of the resonant heads of the drums (particularly the snare sound) to the top head. I tend to prefer the overhead stuff, but something less aggressive I could see going high working better. For anyone who wants to try it, any pair of omnis put on the floor and roughly equidistant to the kick and snare will give you a good idea of that. I'm a cheapskate, so I'm still running ECM8000's for that.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 21, 2017 11:55:36 GMT -6
Omni LDC's are useful when you just need a higher sensitivity rating. Distant mic'ing quiet sources, namely. There's a good paper I've posted here on the difference between single and dual diapraghm LDC's. The Omni mode of an LDC does have 'some' proximity effect but it's drastically reduced - in most situations I'd use an omni I'd consider the difference fairly negligible. Found It! cdn.shure.com/publication/upload/340/pdf_ea_dual_diaphragm_mics.pdf
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 19, 2017 20:10:17 GMT -6
I remember working on a project where we'd tracked 90% of the acoustic rhythm guitars with a KM84 during basics but had to do overdubs with a more limited mic locker. Rode K2 and Mojave MA-300 weren't cutting it but then my little (omni) EV 635A ended up fitting in well with what we'd already done. Gauge and I are also both fans of the EV635a on acoustic guitar. It just works sometimes.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 19, 2017 19:30:43 GMT -6
What I miss and what made me come to rgo was the days when an inexperienced up-and-coming engineer could ask some technical questions about a piece of gear and get a response from you some pretty respected and very knowledgeable folks. Every once and awhile some drama would flare up regarding someones knowledge, experience, and opinion of a product or a place or fellow engineer and it was funny. But it seems nowadays that's all it is with various weekend warrior home studio owners asking the obligatory: 'which should I get xxx or xxx for my untreated room in my basement?' Yeah I found myself arguing with misinformation for so long, and then just sort of clocking out. Begineer engineers in the Newbie thread who think their voice sounds thin are being told "Try using a multiband, I use them for making my beats PHAT" and there's no real respect or interest in getting the fundamentals right.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 13, 2017 18:42:35 GMT -6
Next time skip the girls, go straight for the Salt House. Probably the best beer-drinking-facility in Ireland. So... I need the address of this fine establishment, please. I may come visiting again sooner than later. It's just at the end of Dominic Street, if if you know the way, by the Spanish Arch. Do let me know when you're around!
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 12, 2017 4:38:20 GMT -6
Yeah I'd just ask for a revision. For our album I ended up sending it back twice to get the dynamic range right, I don't think that's particularly unfair. It's worse to be flippant on then- a band I did work for just accepted the masters and only after it was released did I hear it. Noticeable clipping in the middle of one of the songs!! Quite a highly regarded ME too, I was shocked
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 10, 2017 16:06:27 GMT -6
The 57 is a functional mic - I use em for live shows, mostly. Bottom snare. It's my "I'm out of mics" mic. NT5's might be passable on something like choirs but on drums or piano I'd rather not deal with all that hyped top end. I'd go so far as to say they're my least favorite professional level mics.
KM184's are nice. Maybe unsexy, but an honest midrange that makes them a reliable workhorse. They're good on guitar cabs - combined with a t.bone/Nady ribbon was my go to on my last 2 sessions for 'heavy' guitar sounds (Doom metal, grindcore, post-hardcore). Also like them on fiddle and choir.
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