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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 23, 2017 0:42:56 GMT -6
Did they fix the messed up multithread system? Because I just posted how Logic splits the CPU load terribly uneven, and I am having trouble on their flagship Mac Pro 12 core with 64GB of RAM running an Apple software. That rubs me the wrong way. Have tried every solution under the sun, and I am still having overload issues, which is making these fast approaching deadlines more stressful than normal. To my knowledge, Logic is apparently the least efficient of this out of all of the major DAWs.
I'm pretty unhappy that they locked 10.3 behind an OS upgrade. I am at 10.10.5 Yosemite with no plans of upgrading because A. I would lose a bunch of older plugins and B. I figure if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
This is the last nail in the coffin for me, and after almost a decade using Logic, I will be switching to Cubase Pro 9 as my main DAW after I complete this final project in Logic.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 23:06:23 GMT -6
Plus the Tone Bakery unit has a tone control in addition to mix and dwell.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 23:04:51 GMT -6
I have! Still too much of a beginner with DIY to feel fully comfortable taking a stab at that, plus I'm swamped with these project deadlines and these CAPI builds I am planning on. They look awesome though. For hardly any money more though, I am able to get that Tone Bakery which also comes in a nice tweed case, preassembled. At least that serves as proof that high quality tube driven spring verbs can be built affordably without cutting corners.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 22:48:45 GMT -6
So I tried switching multithreading to playback only.... and thread one got much better but thread 24 got worse. Quite frustrated. And I think my LA2A has a microphonic tube now as of tonight, which I am using on the lead vocals. Gosh darn it. Help me DAW gods. Attachments:
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 22:29:57 GMT -6
Just became aware of this Tone Bakery tube driven spring reverb Fender clone, and it looks kick ass. Comes in 2 spring (boingy, splashy) and 3 spring (lush, smooth) variations. Seemed too good to be true for the price (it is on sale right now for under $400, shipped), but everything checks out. Point to point, good components, time period correct Accutronics tank, input, output, and driver tubes... dwell, mix, and tone knobs. The Little Walter Tube Amp spring reverb is my favorite spring verb of all time... possibly my favorite reverb of all time. The Walter is a 3 spring design, which I would opt for that option with the Tone Bakery as it appears to be somewhat similar for a fraction of the cost. The one person who told me about them today who went from the more tweedy 2 spring option loves his. I do not know for sure, but for the price I assume it uses modern production tubes. I would swap those out for NOS tubes when I get it. 12AX7 input, 12AT7 reverb driver, 6V6 output tube.
I plan on using it with a Radial EXTC to mix and record not only guitars... but definitely vocals, and possibly keys / drums (snare mainly). Anyone ever use one? Either the 2 or 3 spring variety? They look awesome, and I thought I would check here before I picked one up.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 22:17:23 GMT -6
Thanks! Let me know what they say. I recently had my computer serviced about 2 or 3 months ago, and they said everything is in perfect shape now. So I'm curious to hear your findings. They said it was a RAM issue. I have only 6GB and they recommend at lest 8. Never had a problem before- and a run tons of plugins + VST's- but I used Drumagog for the first time and it shut me down. Out the door tomorrow to buy more RAM. That makes sense. This Mac Pro has 64GB of RAM, so that isn't the problem It is a raw CPU thing where it just isn't utilizing all 12 cores as it should. Drumagog is a big CPU hog, so that also makes sense. I would recommend trying to get to 16GB of RAM so you don't have to upgrade again as fast. My old Macbook Pro has 16 GB of RAM and I was able to run 48K projects for a long time no problem. I run projects in 96K now though, since I got the new Mac Pro.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 22:14:57 GMT -6
- I believe the MOTU drivers are fairly efficient. Make sure you try the latest versions? Sometimes a lower buffer size can work better than a higher one (weird I know). - I think the latest Logic update was meant to improve multicore performance - are you up to date? Updating OSX can also help. - You can also try changing the "process buffer" to large and "multithreading" to "playback only" when you aren't recording (in the Logic audio preferences). - Freezing tracks will turn them into audio files and print any plugins you are using on them. It will not disable any bus processing though. You can slide your mouse down the freeze buttons to activate it on a lot of tracks quickly (also works for solo, mute etc.). - If you play the project and bypass plugins while watching the CPU meter you can get an idea what exactly is giving you trouble. Don't forget to think about any routing. - Remember that just muting an audio track does not disable the plugin processing. You have to bypass the plugins or use the track On/Off buttons (Track Header components>On/Off). - Record/Input arming a track can also cause CPU spikes. Disabling inputs can also save a little power. - Sometimes it takes a few play throughs for Logic to balance the cores.
- I do find Logic more annoying for this stuff than Ableton Live. Haven't tried Cubase for a while.
- There is no manual way to assign plugins to cores. - This thread in the purple place might amuse you www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1136148-logic-10-3-cpu-spikes.htmlThank you for all of the feedback! Thread 24 is the mix bus mainly I have figured out... so I have to leave off my mid/side EQ while finishing it and apply it in mastering, which kind of sucks. I have tried just about every option you said. I am on 10.10.5 Yosemite with no plans of upgrading as I would lose a ton of older plugins that I still regularly use, and they have the new Logic 10.3 locked behind an OS update, which as a Logic user of almost a decade, comes off rather insulting and is lousy business practices if you ask me. It didn't get me to upgrade, it just got me more motivated to fully learn Cubase 9 Pro faster and make a full switch. Nothing is armed, Motu drivers are up to date... it's in playback only, and I will try a smaller buffer size one last time to below 1024. Freezing tracks helps enough to get it going, and reduces the load to thread 1, but not by as much as I would ideally like it to. If I was able to freeze busses... that would help much more. I figured 12 Cores and 64GB of RAM would prevent any problems, which is why I decided to cash in the savings and make the investment to try to avoid things like this. Luckily the project is almost done.. the fine tuning is just going to suck. I appreciate your help. I'll try your suggestions one more time, but it's looking like I'm a Cubase guy now.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 22:07:54 GMT -6
Wow and logic is made for OS X mac platform only and can't even function efficiently... that's crazy... I hope you get sorted and figure out thenroot of the problem plus an answer. I know stuff like this can be maddening especially when you feel like you are stuck. I would try a Save as on the problematic session make a copy and save it to another partition or SSD/ HDD and see if that helps or hurts your performance... Good luck hope you get up and running asap 🙏 Thanks for the feedback man, I will give that a try! Have it running from a Glyph StudioRAID thunderbolt... in RAID 1 mode. I guess it can't hurt to try it external. BUT, it says my disk usage is well below half, so it doesn't seem to be the hard drive. It just sucks because 90% of the project is done, with the first songs deadline being this week. It is making the fine tuning difficult, and I have to leave my mid/side EQ off the mix bus and just apply that in the mastering stage. I just left another post on how it is nonsense that Apple's flagship DAW can't even run properly on their beefiest flagship computer. Plus they are locking updates from this point forward behind an OS update as I said below, which I can't do since I need to say on Yosemite otherwise I will lose a bunch of older plugins I like. After this project... Cubase Pro 9, here I come.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 22, 2017 22:03:54 GMT -6
So I am currently in the process of slowly learning and switching over to Cubase (I have PT 10 and 11, but never personally fell in love with either) but still have to finish up some projects with fast approaching deadlines in Logic Pro X. About a year ago, I got the biggest, baddest, Late 2013 Mac Pro 12 Core with 64GB of RAM so that I would have more than enough CPU (I typically run projects in 96K), and I wouldn't have to buy a new computer for years and years. I have had problems with these last projects overloading, and when I checked the CPU from within Logic, I learned that only cores 1 and 12 were overloading, while I want to say either cores 2-8 or 2-9 were at between 1/2 and 2/3 useage, and cores 8-11 or 9-11 were hardly being used at all... almost inactive. This is a relatively big, full band project, but definitely nothing outside the norm. There is also a fair bit of plugins but nothing ultra CPU hungry like Ozone 7 Advanced. I save most of the CPU hogs for after everything is printed. Turns out that Logic is unable to process threads over multiple cores, and that each channel strip is permanently assigned to a particular core, and it is unable to split tasks across multiple cores. Is this STRICTLY a Logic problem, and will these issues go away once I switch to Cubase? I am only getting about 1/2 of the power at my disposal, and it's driving me nuts with all of these clicks, pops, and overload messages. I have heard Logic is notoriously bad at CPU distribution, since I have friends and colleagues that work at 96K constantly also, except from within Cubase or PT. They have less available CPU and RAM, and seem to never have any problems. My buffer size is currently at 1024 as well, which is insane that I am having CPU issues even then. I have read about a vague solution where you re-bus everything so that the plugins are theoretically spread across multiple cores, but it's extremely tedious and cumbersome, with no guarantees of it working. Does anyone with Logic have a workaround, or is there any other solution to this besides shooting in the dark with the sub-bus idea where you would i.e. take all of the plugins from the mix buss and split them over two busses which you route every other track through, and then run the output of those busses to the mix bus? The thing with that, is there is nothing definitive about what core controls what in Logic, so it would be shooting in the dark. After experimenting, I believe core 12 (which is one of the cores overloading) pertains to the mix bus. But I have no more on the mix bus than I do in any other project or any other channel strip, and again, nothing ultra CPU heavy that the computer shouldn't be able to handle. I went through the whole Logic multi-thread nonsense (switched from automatic to 24, etc), and double checked that all applications were closed, including Dropbox and Google Drive from the top of the screen. I am currently running 10.10.5 Yosemite with no intention of "upgrading" any time soon as I would lose some old plugins. I also don't want to print anything quite yet as I am currently mixing the vocals, and would like to be able to fine tune the instrumental to the vocals if need be. Save me RGO. At least it is better than tape shed. That is funny. I had the same problem with Logic 9 it seemed to be related to Adictive Drums... Anyway I did try all tricks too, busing out and audio tracks with no output as the active track. No chance one core always was on overload. The project had to go on and I muted a few of the slate plug ins and went on with the arrangement. From the moment on a second software instrument joined the show the power was spread over 4 cores instead of 1,2 cores. Please don't ask me why that is like it is the spread is even better if the active channel in an software instrument in record mode. It was the opposite of the usual tricks which made my session run with all plug ins in use. I still do not know why. Thanks for the reply. That is so strange! I don't have a single virtual instrument on this project as it is all live recordings. I even created a "dummy track" that is totally blank that I will leave it on while I am playing it back. Doesn't seem to help all that much. Luckily the track is 90% done (still have to master, in a separate project file), but the deadline is in a week. And we are doing last minute lapsteel overdubs so I'm going to have to bypass everything on the mix buss and freeze a bunch of tracks so I can turn it off of 1024, cause I have had the latency really mess with recordings, even if there is no latency while recording through playback / over headphones, there is recording latency that puts the track off time. It seems to be thread 1 (1st half of core 1), and thread 24 (2nd half of core 12). What is infuriating is the first half of core 12 isn't even being utilized at all.... so just pull from that core Logic! Thread 24 seems to be isolated to mainly the mix buss... but yes, the bussing trick didn't work. Can't figure out thread one, but freezing whatever tracks I can seems to help. I just bought a Raven MTi2 this week and got it with a Cubase code in addition to Logic.... this will be my last ever project on Logic since there is no solution. You would think that the flagship Apple computer could run the flagship Apple DAW, but nope. They also locked Logic 10.3 behind an OS update, and if I update past Yosemite I will lose a good bit of plugins. I don't agree with those business tactics, and as a Logic user of almost a decade, I don't appreciate it. I left them one of those 200 word feedback messages but I doubt I will get a response. Bummer. At least it motivates me to move to Cubase 9 Pro faster.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 20, 2017 0:31:36 GMT -6
Here's how to balance cores in Logic - pay close attention to Live Input Mode etc: support.apple.com/en-us/HT201838The disadvantage of having a 12 core machine is that each core is slower than say a 6 core. Also be aware that some audio interfaces are more efficient than others (e.g. RME). Failing all that - make friends with the freeze function? I just tried the core distribution trick and made two stereo busses and split what I have on the mix bus between the two... with everything routed to the first bus, which is routed into the 2nd bus, which goes into the stereo out. The same thread, thread 24 (2nd half of core 12), which is giving me most of the problems is still doing the same thing, so unfortunately it didn't work. The first half of core 1, which is thread 1, is still giving me issues though it doesn't stay maxed out, especially now that I have froze the couple tracks I can right now. Would it be a good idea to freeze absolutely everything except what I am mixing currently, and unfreeze only if I have to adjust? When I bypass all of the plugins on the mix bus, the core 12 usage (or rather thread 24) goes down by about 1/4. Do you know what core/thread corresponds to what? It is driving me crazy that the first half of core 12 (thread 23) isn't being utilized at all, but thread 24 is maxed.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 19, 2017 23:09:20 GMT -6
So we have established that it is only Logic that will behave like this? If that is the case I will prioritize moving to Cubase.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 19, 2017 13:50:22 GMT -6
Here's how to balance cores in Logic - pay close attention to Live Input Mode etc: support.apple.com/en-us/HT201838The disadvantage of having a 12 core machine is that each core is slower than say a 6 core. Also be aware that some audio interfaces are more efficient than others (e.g. RME). Failing all that - make friends with the freeze function? Thanks. This is the article I saw about the sub-bus method. Looking like I'll have to give it a shot for this. I opted for the larger core option in the 12 core configuration, so I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, but for whatever reason with this project that decision is biting me. Normally the advantages seem to outweigh the disadvantages, besides with issues such as this for whatever reason. Live input mode is just for if you are recording or if you have a software instrument track enabled right? How can I tell that Live Input mode is on or off? If so I'm not sure why it would be doing that, but I will try creating a blank crack with no input and having that selected during playback. Also, I wish that you could freeze bus tracks! Also, I am using a Motu 16a at the moment.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 19, 2017 13:45:51 GMT -6
I'd suggest trying Reaper before going with Cubase. It's lean and mean. I use it on a humongous catchall "noodling" project for writing and arranging new ideas. Tons of plugins, tracking 5 Vox, 2 Guitars triggering 5 Synths (incl. Kontkt loaded up). The project folder is over 41 GB, all on a 3.3 GHz Core 2 Duo with 8 GB RAM. I have a web browser, Email Client open plus several other programs running at the same time. Reaper does Scoring and Video. The installation file is 10.5 MB.... it just works. Cubase is what I have to switch to since the one studio in town I do the most work out of besides my own uses Cubase (and he has sold me on it), plus I already went out and purchased it. Heard great things about Reaper though, but unforuntely it's not in the stars for me anytime soon. Good to know it's most likely just a Logic imperfection then! Most 96K projects are fine, this one is just not balancing the cores properly for whatever reason.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 19, 2017 13:42:44 GMT -6
I currently have a big Cubase 8 project with lot of plugins and vst's that is taxing about 50% of my i7 and half of my RAM. It won't even open. Meanwhile, I can open smaller projects. I have a tech calling me Monday. I'll let you know what he says Thanks! Let me know what they say. I recently had my computer serviced about 2 or 3 months ago, and they said everything is in perfect shape now. So I'm curious to hear your findings.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 19, 2017 2:51:44 GMT -6
So I am currently in the process of slowly learning and switching over to Cubase (I have PT 10 and 11, but never personally fell in love with either) but still have to finish up some projects with fast approaching deadlines in Logic Pro X. About a year ago, I got the biggest, baddest, Late 2013 Mac Pro 12 Core with 64GB of RAM so that I would have more than enough CPU (I typically run projects in 96K), and I wouldn't have to buy a new computer for years and years. I have had problems with these last projects overloading, and when I checked the CPU from within Logic, I learned that only cores 1 and 12 were overloading, while I want to say either cores 2-8 or 2-9 were at between 1/2 and 2/3 useage, and cores 8-11 or 9-11 were hardly being used at all... almost inactive. This is a relatively big, full band project, but definitely nothing outside the norm. There is also a fair bit of plugins but nothing ultra CPU hungry like Ozone 7 Advanced. I save most of the CPU hogs for after everything is printed.
Turns out that Logic is unable to process threads over multiple cores, and that each channel strip is permanently assigned to a particular core, and it is unable to split tasks across multiple cores. Is this STRICTLY a Logic problem, and will these issues go away once I switch to Cubase? I am only getting about 1/2 of the power at my disposal, and it's driving me nuts with all of these clicks, pops, and overload messages. I have heard Logic is notoriously bad at CPU distribution, since I have friends and colleagues that work at 96K constantly also, except from within Cubase or PT. They have less available CPU and RAM, and seem to never have any problems. My buffer size is currently at 1024 as well, which is insane that I am having CPU issues even then. I have read about a vague solution where you re-bus everything so that the plugins are theoretically spread across multiple cores, but it's extremely tedious and cumbersome, with no guarantees of it working.
Does anyone with Logic have a workaround, or is there any other solution to this besides shooting in the dark with the sub-bus idea where you would i.e. take all of the plugins from the mix buss and split them over two busses which you route every other track through, and then run the output of those busses to the mix bus? The thing with that, is there is nothing definitive about what core controls what in Logic, so it would be shooting in the dark. After experimenting, I believe core 12 (which is one of the cores overloading) pertains to the mix bus. But I have no more on the mix bus than I do in any other project or any other channel strip, and again, nothing ultra CPU heavy that the computer shouldn't be able to handle.
I went through the whole Logic multi-thread nonsense (switched from automatic to 24, etc), and double checked that all applications were closed, including Dropbox and Google Drive from the top of the screen. I am currently running 10.10.5 Yosemite with no intention of "upgrading" any time soon as I would lose some old plugins. I also don't want to print anything quite yet as I am currently mixing the vocals, and would like to be able to fine tune the instrumental to the vocals if need be. Save me RGO.
At least it is better than tape shed.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 18, 2017 18:06:07 GMT -6
Also, I personally always wanted a tape machine, so I did it as much for myself as I did for my current and future clients. If you want a tape machine and can get a good price, then I say go for it. With everything I said above, I still plan on getting a Studer or Ampex someday for the different tonal option. I currently have two channels of Ampex 601, but they have been modified into microphone preamps, and I love how they sound. Tape machines that aren't intended just for mix down and mastering are a different beast though. 4, 8, 16, and 24 track machines take a special kind of artist to request, since they have to rehearse much more and can't lean on "fixing it in the mix" as much as they can tracking straight into a DAW. It's also a fine line if you want to charge more to track or mix down to tape. It takes up more time, and requires what nowadays can be considered a special skill set, but at the same time many artists may scoff at the idea of not only giving up complicated comping and editing, but paying extra to do so... even if it's just your typical hourly rate. Of course, artists who still know their songs like the back of their hand, and actually want that experience still exist. Those numbers are just unfortunately somewhat limited as far as my generation at least, based on my experience.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 18, 2017 17:55:38 GMT -6
I rescued an Otari MTR-12 from an NBC storage unit about a year ago, and got it for a great price since the guy who owned the storage unit was moving and had a bad back. It has only been requested maybe twice (after being offered) since I purchased it, so it is hardly "in demand", but I have found it quite handy for tape mix down when I want something more authentic than a plugin, and for slap / tape echo. Since it has a vari-speed, its been pretty cool for that application. For the price I paid, I'm very happy to have it though. It is well under the going rate of a good tape echo these days, and it certainly wows the artists every now and then when they walk in, but I feel like I haven't really gotten all that much of an increase in work at all for offering the option. As stated above, that is mainly a reputation thing that drives traffic, and then things like microphones and compressors. Granted, it may look good to an artist that I am a younger guy offering tape mix down, but it hasn't ever been, and will probably never be the driving factor behind me getting my work. When I was in Chuck Ainley's room for a gear demo, and asked him about the Ampex in the corner, he stated he had not used his at all in a couple years.
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 27, 2017 20:53:14 GMT -6
That is what I hear! It is just fringing on dark, at least compared to many modern condensers (many of which I don't love), but I would describe it as balanced. Have you used the CM47FETce? Considering picking one up very soon to try out, which at the price is very tempting knowing the quality. Plus it uses the same capsule as the 47VE, and CM48 Tube. Yes, I am actually talking to Dave now about the CM67se mod. He is going to give me instructions and I am going to complete the mod myself to save on shipping and time. I haven't used the CM47FETce. I debated picking it up a few times, but never had a real reason to. When you do the Mod for the CM67, just note that in cardioid it seems to be missing a little top end. I generally use it one notch toward Omni. That's the nice thing about having 9 polar patterns. I find it matches my I/O Audio MK U67 really well on that setting. The MK U67 is about as close as you can get to a brand new U67. It's a kit that plugs into the TLM67 and U87AI that uses the Neumann capsule of the host mic and uses a near exact replica of the U67 circuitry. There's at least two threads discussing that kit on here. So that's my experience with the CM67 anyway. I started recording a friends album with the CM67 in that mode and am finishing it with the MK U67. My U67 thread: realgearonline.com/thread/6267/u67-style-microphoneThanks for the heads up! Yes I love being able to adjust the polar pattern, almost as a form of subtle EQ while recording. I figure the CM47FETce or CM48FET will hold me over till I get a CM47ve. The CM49 looks great also, so it is good to know you have been enjoying it so far. I have to unfortunately prioritize utility purchases at the moment such as a new patch bay and DB25 snakes, as well as building some more GOBOs and continue saving for a larger facility. Plus, it'll be nice having a U47FET style microphone where FET is called to opposed to a tube microphone I figure, for certain vocals, upright bass, electric guitar, and drums. I actually recently read the one thread, and they look badass! Still very much a beginner as far as DIY, but I will get there, sooner rather than later hopefully. About to start work on some CAPI kits now that Jeff just got a new batch of transformers, and I may even build a JLM LA500A or a pair of them, if I decide to go that route over a Serpent Audio Chimera. Also will end up with a Brute at some point, but that has a sound of its own, and isn't necessarily LA3A-ish.
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 26, 2017 23:19:39 GMT -6
topshelfmg , if you think the CM251 is dark, wait till you hear one of the K47 offerings. I just got my CM49 and that is a rich and natural sounding mic. Much darker than the CM251. Dave also gave me a cool custom mode for my CM67 that gives it a dark, vintage sound as well as the standard sound. That's also much darker than the CM251. The CM251 & CM67 are two of my favorites. I just received the CM49 and look forward to a few friends I record with to try it. PS: the CM251 is probably my favorite mic for the legit female Broadway and jazz singers I record in my studio. The CM67 in vintage mode has been my favorite for legit male singers, including myself. I only just upgraded from it to an MK U67, and I still kept the CM67. That is what I hear! It is just fringing on dark, at least compared to many modern condensers (many of which I don't love), but I would describe it as balanced. Have you used the CM47FETce? Considering picking one up very soon to try out, which at the price is very tempting knowing the quality. Plus it uses the same capsule as the 47VE, and CM48 Tube. Yes, I am actually talking to Dave now about the CM67se mod. He is going to give me instructions and I am going to complete the mod myself to save on shipping and time.
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 26, 2017 1:20:11 GMT -6
The entire SDC line seems to have gone away, there are still some pages up if you know where to look, but they don't seem to be obvious. They ran out of stock of their tube SDC is what I was told, but they recently restocked them. The FET SDC 1084s are still under the FET column... with the tube CM28s being under the tube column. It is weird getting to it from your phone for whatever reason. On the computer it pops right up on the left hand side. Cheers
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 26, 2017 0:28:45 GMT -6
I will let you guys know once I record RnB lead vocals on Tuesday.. and I may even use it for acoustic guitar on Monday! Tuesday is female RnB vocals, and a little later in the month I will be recorded a different male RnB artist, so I will definitely report my findings. So far.. I am impressed, to say the least. I love it.
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 26, 2017 0:23:40 GMT -6
topshelfmg just got an AA251 interested to hear more from him regarding the mic. I follow his Instagram and he posted about it the other day. Hand built and hand tweaked from aamicrophones maybe you can shed more light on this model 😀 I did! I want to start by saying, I have loved everything I have ever used from Advanced Audio. I absolutely LOVE the CM251. It is a contender to replace the CM67se as my favorite one of their microphones... which currently may be thew microphone I use the most alongside the AEA N22. I used it to record BGVs and harmonies this morning for its first true session. The singer is a soprano and she is quite sibilant, and I have been using ribbon microphones on her up until this point for this reason. I used a Cloud JRS-34 for lead vocals through my Serpent Audio SB4001 and was going to use an AEA N22 through my (slightly) modded Tube Tech LCA-2A for harmonies. I ended up using the CM251 in super cardioid, and it kicked serious ass. For male singers (when I tested just my speaking voice), I'm estimating that cardioid or wide cardioid would sound best as it would give it just a tiny bit of air. Preamp I used my RTZ 9762 Dual Combo, which is essentially an extremely well built 1073 style preamp with more clarity. Also, it is my favorite preamp of all time (bold words, I know), recommended to me by Randy Kohrs, as he said it is one of his, if not his favorite preamp as well. For lead vocals, I terminated the output transformer for a flatter and more traditional Neve sounding preamp, and for harmonies and BGVs I unterminated it for a bit of an air boost. Backing up, I originally got a CM12se from Dave at Summer NAMM for a pop singer who wanted very bright, in your face vocals. Now that I no longer work with that client, and I tend to like darker or more neutral microphones, I sent it to Dave and he was kind enough to convert it into a CM251. Plus, I have two RnB projects this month so it seemed like the logical choice. I recorded reference recordings with the CM12se before I sent it in, and when I recorded with the CM251 onto the same session file, I got very excited when I listened back. Incredibly detailed, but very smooth and neutral... almost leaning on dark, in a great way. If sibilance wasn't a problem on a female soprano, I don't think it will ever be. To me, not only is there less high end, but the bass response and low mids sound extraordinarily rich and full by comparison. Dave explained this is the psychoacoustic effect of having less high end response, but I've listened back to the comparison files a ton and it truly just sounds like a larger, more balanced recording with the CM251. I do believe the CM251 has a lower bass response, going down to 10Hz. I'm excited to try it on acoustic instruments and piano. The CM67se is an amazing counter-balance, being very balanced with just a tiny bit more air up top. My go to when recording acoustic guitar, paired with a second microphone, and many male vocals, just to name a couple. The CM67se directly beat out a well maintained U67 on a Lady Antebellum album, and they used it for vocals (both male and female), except for one song in which they used a vintage U47. It also was used to record all of the acoustic guitars on that album. I forget the other examples, but I know Fall Out Boy uses it on their guitar amps. I can see myself using the CM251 on the 12th fret with it, especially on brighter guitars like Taylors or Seagulls. I've wanted a 2nd CM67se for a while now for a true stereo recording of acoustic guitar, as well as piano, acoustic instruments, and overheads... and now I want a 2nd CM251 if I need a smoother / darker microphone. I also plan on picking up a CM47FETce or CM48FET this week to try out... since at the price, it's really hard to say no. I loved what I heard at Summer NAMM, and have heard nothing but good things about it. I will also be testing out a MT8016 mic preamp from them in a couple months here. But from what I heard when I tried out the prototype in their hotel room... I'll probably buy the unit I'm demoing. I want to say one last thing on the subject. Dave sent me comparison audio between a vintage, well maintained U87 and his CM87. They sounded so damn identical that we thought we accidentally loaded the same audio file in twice... and then again when I deleted and re-uploaded. It wasn't until I flipped the phase I could be sure. There was MAYBE 1db more in a certain section of the lower miss for the vintage U87... but it took a lot of critical listening to pick up. Nothing an extremely amount of EQ couldn't touch up, if you really wanted. And that was just the regular CM87, not the CM87se. Dave has informed me the only difference is that the CM87se has a more complex transformer, just to be able to record louder sources, like drums, without any worry of breakup. I believe the response is supposed to be identical. Hope this helped!
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 5, 2017 3:40:09 GMT -6
I didn't quite read through the rest of the thread, so I'm sorry if this was mentioned already... but I HIGHLY suggest the Advanced Audio CM67se. It is most likely my favorite microphone that I own. I own a custom one. It's an awesome microphone. The stock sound is closer to the M269. It's much brighter than a U67. I also have a custom mod on mine that gives me a more vintage, darker tone using the rolloff switch as the mode selector. I also have a good video shoot out comparison with the CM67se, CM12se, U87AI, and a modded Studio Projects C3 posted in another thread if you're interested. In this thread we've been discussing finding the closest mic to a vintage, unmodified U67. I just grabbed the Max Kircher I/O Audio MK67 Mod for the U87AI or TLM 67. It uses the Neumann capsule of the mic and gives you a replica of the circuitry in the U67. It also has a bright mode similar to the CM67se. I have both of these and am going to compare them. Nevermind! Just saw your response further into the thread.
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 5, 2017 3:30:53 GMT -6
I didn't quite read through the rest of the thread, so I'm sorry if this was mentioned already... but I HIGHLY suggest the Advanced Audio CM67se. It is most likely my favorite microphone that I own. I own a custom one. It's an awesome microphone. The stock sound is closer to the M269. It's much brighter than a U67. I also have a custom mod on mine that gives me a more vintage, darker tone using the rolloff switch as the mode selector. I also have a good video shoot out comparison with the CM67se, CM12se, U87AI, and a modded Studio Projects C3 posted in another thread if you're interested. In this thread we've been discussing finding the closest mic to a vintage, unmodified U67. I just grabbed the Max Kircher I/O Audio MK67 Mod for the U87AI or TLM 67. It uses the Neumann capsule of the mic and gives you a replica of the circuitry in the U67. It also has a bright mode similar to the CM67se. I have both of these and am going to compare them. That sounds like it would be right down my alley! Do you know what the mod consists of. I may end up paying Dave to perform the mod.
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Post by topshelfmg on Feb 4, 2017 14:11:54 GMT -6
I had an opportunity to hear the prototype at Summer NAMM, and it sounds fantastic.
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