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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 11, 2016 14:49:13 GMT -6
Wow, didn't know this. Saw you could get it stock with 16GB RAM... figured you could at least upgrade it to 32GB. Even my old 2011 Mac Book Pro I used for years before upgrading, I was able to get to 16GB installed. I figured in 5+ years that wouldn't be the case though..
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 11, 2016 14:40:17 GMT -6
No filter / Conditioner is going to help ground issues or get you more current. plugging strips or conditioners into each other isn't a problem Unless your drawing more current then they or the circuit are capeable of carring. Gotcha! So if I am not having any current issues or grounding issues now, then I should be fine feeding all the gear into a single outlet. I am running my studio off of 2 different circuits / outlet banks, all within the same breaker box currently, but if moving it all to a single outlet through a UPS or something similar causes any issues I can just power things like my computer, computer monitors, and maybe even reference monitors (active Auratone MixCubes) from the 2nd outlet.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 11, 2016 14:36:00 GMT -6
I've been meaning to get an UPS anyways, so that seems like a solid option. Do you recommend any models? Also, it's not necessarily tripping the circuit I'm worried about, since I have a start up sequence in place, it's more fires and things of that nature. A voltage regulator was the first (and until now, the only) safe way suggested to plug everything into a single outlet. I see that a lot of these UPSs have conditioning in addition to regulation. Is it in anyway bad to run a power conditioner (filter) through another power conditioner? Even if said "master conditioner" is also a UPS and regulator? Does it also being a regulator and UPS eliminate the reasons it is not recommended to daisy chain power conditioners into each other? I've never looked into the science behind this, I've just been told conditioner -> conditioner = bad / dangerous. I assume it should be fine since it's got to be accounted for that a lot of people with UPSs have enough gear that power conditioners are going to come into play, and be plugged into it. Looking at the Furman F1000 and F1500 now, and reading up about them a bit. I don't know where all the "conditioner into a conditioner" stuff comes from so I can't speak to that and I also don't know about claims of some UPS's providing conditioning or whatever else. That all sounds like marketing type stuff to me. Also, amps are amps. Your electrical circuit either can or can't provide the necessary amps to power the needs of your equipment. The startup sequence is irrelevant. Fires shouldn't be a concern if the wiring and circuit breakers in your place are in order and NO amount of power conditioners will magically improve that. If the wiring at your place can't provide the amps to power all of your equipment then none of this other stuff matters. Your breaker(s), assuming everything is up to snuff, will trip if you overload them. Also, voltage regulation is about providing a relatively tight voltage supply to your equipment which is good for the equipment but has nothing to do with the total amount of amps you are drawing and is the bigger concern as it pertains to overload or potential fires. All that being said, and in the context of online UPS's, don't think of them as some sort of regulator or conditioner because that implies some sort of circuitry designed to correct or control the voltage that comes out of them. The nice thing about online UPS's is that you are basically running everything through a battery, so no regulation or conditioning is required past that point. The circuit in an online UPS is such that you get pure sine wave power free of noise and exactly at the intended voltage as a product of the ac to dc to ac to conversion process. It just naturally comes out of the battery (and subsequent circuitry) that way. Think of an online UPS as your own little miniature power station, if that helps. No further "correction" necessary. Cheaper UPS's which aren't of the online variety may claim to provide some sort of conditioning or regulation but those aren't the type I'm talking about. Search for double conversion online UPS's. That's the kind I'm talking about. Look at www.upsforless.com to find some good deals on refurbished UPS's. APC are good as well as Leibert and others. Thank you! Ok that's cool, I like the idea of essentially having my own pure sine wave mini power station. I'm new to DIY audio, and therefore, a rookie at electrical / electronics related issues and shop talk. Since I don't have any problem tripping circuits as is, sounds like I should be fine hooking everything into one outlet, which I'm probably going to spring for a APC or something of that nature. You seem to get a whole lot more for a whole lot less than say, a Furman, because they aren't pushing it as studio purposed though it does the exact same shit. Not sure where I got the conditioner to conditioner warning, but it seems to be bullshit after talking to you guys. The slight improved safety of my gear and studio alone seems well worth the price of admission for an UPS, so I'll start doing some research. For four racks of gear (LA2A, a bunch of preamps..mainly transformer balanced, a Tube Tech LCA 2A, 2 tube eqs, a 10 unit 500 series chassis, FET compressors, Mac Pro, 2 sets of active monitors, converters, etc etc), is there a ballpark of the VA I should be looking for if I were to ever have to have to use the battery back up? 1500, 2000, 2500? I hope to never have to use this feature but just in case. Also, I need to do more research but I see a lot of the Furmans are only rated at 12A. Would I still be getting the full current of my outlet / mains (20a), with the battery back up being what is only rated at 12A? Have yet to check what models such as the APCs are rated at. Just curious of what this spec means.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 11, 2016 1:07:22 GMT -6
There are some Furman F1500's floating around for a good price if this ends up being the best solution.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 11, 2016 1:01:41 GMT -6
Provided you have the necessary available amps and adequate grounding to the plug(s) you would use, one or more double-conversion online UPS's can provide noise clean up due to their ac to dc to ac conversion. Pure sine wave power and very steady voltage. If necessary you could just get an existing outlet or two (or a new outlet or two) wired up with proper grounding and appropriate wire gauge to handle the amps you need and just run everything off of that through one or more appropriately sized online UPS's. It's a relatively cheap option but you would have to make sure you have somewhere you can put them where fan noise won't cause a problem. You could then run power distribution from there as needed. I've been meaning to get an UPS anyways, so that seems like a solid option. Do you recommend any models? Also, it's not necessarily tripping the circuit I'm worried about, since I have a start up sequence in place, it's more fires and things of that nature. A voltage regulator was the first (and until now, the only) safe way suggested to plug everything into a single outlet. I see that a lot of these UPSs have conditioning in addition to regulation. Is it in anyway bad to run a power conditioner (filter) through another power conditioner? Even if said "master conditioner" is also a UPS and regulator? Does it also being a regulator and UPS eliminate the reasons it is not recommended to daisy chain power conditioners into each other? I've never looked into the science behind this, I've just been told conditioner -> conditioner = bad / dangerous. I assume it should be fine since it's got to be accounted for that a lot of people with UPSs have enough gear that power conditioners are going to come into play, and be plugged into it. Looking at the Furman F1000 and F1500 now, and reading up about them a bit.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 11, 2016 0:07:42 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. I had a bit of electrical hum that did indeed disappear when I got the Furman conditioners, and my electricity here is not absolutely horrible, it's just not super up to date / studio purposed. Besides the hum that immediately went away when filtered, I've had no significant powers with that. I am indeed renting right now.
Let me rephrase, as I probably made things more complicated than I had to. My main concern is that I'm just about out of outlet space, and a power regulator seemed like the only safe way to have 4 separate power conditioners plug in to a single outlet (running through the power regulator, which I would have hooked up to the outlet). The regulation itself would be a bonus, or so I thought. I've had no issues with my power since the conditioners, but my Sweetwater Engineer played into the whole "this will not only let you have all your power conditioners hooked up to a single outlet, but it is much better for your gear, and hey, it might even sound marginally better". Again, he is recommending a unit which has +-5V regulation, which seemed illogical to me as my power averages between 118-122, with a bad day once in a blue moon maybe going an extra volt or so up or down. He still insists it will keep it closer to a constant, "perfect", 120V. It's my understanding it is unsafe to plug multiple conditioners into a power strip, or daisy chain power conditioners, which is the main reason the regulator got brought up. If there is a simpler solution I'm all for it.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 9, 2016 21:31:02 GMT -6
Hey guys, now that I am finally on rack 4, and about to get my 4th power conditioner (Furman PL-8C), I'm quickly running out of available outlets in this room, and to my knowledge, it's pretty darn dangerous to daisy chain power conditioners or to plug them into a power strip. The power at my place is pretty crappy, as I believe it was built in the 30s and then renovated, so I'm thinking I could get a power regulator and kill 2 birds with one stone. The thing is, if I were to plug all of my conditioners into the regulator (as recommended by my Sweetwater Sales Engineer), the whole desk would be running off a single outlet. Also, when I say crappy I don't mean currently, I mean prior to getting the power conditioners a while back. No noise, but when I see the voltage fluctuate from 120V I notice a little bit of increased heat coming from certain units.
I have my power up sequence all set up so everything is able to turn on and shut off in the correct order, and only maybe 3-4 pieces of gear I own do not have an on/off switch, meaning it won't all power up right away from just turning on the power conditioners. I also have all gear without an on/off switch besides my D Box all powered off of the same power conditioner, so that I can use that one as a master on/off essentially. I also recently got my landlord to upgrade this place to 20a from 15a.
Anyways, my first question is, theoretically, is it fine to run all of my gear through the power regulator, which is powered off of a single outlet?
2nd: I was originally going to get the Furman M-8X AR regulator, but I see that it only wrangles voltages to within +-5V of 120V. I have one Panamax power conditioner I bought from my bass player a while back in addition to the 3 PL-8C's, and it has a voltmeter on it. My power typically seems to run between 116-123 or 124 (on a bad day), so does this mean that a +-5 regulator wouldn't even do anything? My Sweetwater Engineer of course insists that it will keep it closer to 120, but I'm not so sure.
3rd: Because of the above stated reasons, I am looking at a the Monster AVS 2000, which is an absolute behemoth and would eat rack space, but it keeps it within 10% of 120V, so +-1.2V. Anyone have an suggestions here as to models they recommend, if any? Since this is more of a utility / convenience purchase I'd rather not drop too too much on it.
4th: Now that I have 20a, do I need a 20a regulator, as most of them see to be rated for 15a?
5th: Would there be any kind of noticeable fidelity / dynamic range increases in getting things just a little closer to a constant 120V, or is it just a gear lifespan kind of thing?
Thanks.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 9, 2016 14:03:19 GMT -6
I'll keep it short so the reverb talk can be left to the other thread, but speaking of reverb, I've started using the new VerbSuite slate plug (free with the bundle), and I've gotten some really nice results with it. I was previously using the Slate collaboration with Relab, their 480L emulation, but they must have had a falling out because the new Slate plugin literally copies all of the same presets, and possibly the same IRs to the 480L emulation they have on their newest plug, and even starts you in that bank when you open up a new instance. Seems kinda like a "screw you, Relab", if you ask me. It includes many other hardware emulations besides the 480L in this case, including an externally linked download of M7 IRs, that sound really nice, for what it's worth.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 9, 2016 13:54:40 GMT -6
OK - I'm normally not the guy who puts threads like these back on topic, but.. I just watched what I think is a pretty well done review/demonstration video and I have to say that the difference the VCC 2 makes sounds pretty significant to me. Even if it's not as good as the real thing(s) - I like it and I want it, and that's all that matters. The only thing that's deterring me at this point is the ilok2, which I've avoided buying up to this point.. and the price. It looks like you can purchase it outright for $150 from Sweetwater (with an ilok), but I'm looking at the list of stuff you get for the subscription fee (basically $180 a year, right?), and I'm thinking about what else I might use to make it worth the yearly payout. The Virtual Tape gets mixed reviews, but I've got to believe it's good enough for me, The VerbSuite looks easy to use - There's mastering stuff.. yada yada.. So like everyone else, I'm looking at the big picture.. On the one hand, my standards get higher as my ear and skills as a engineer/mixologist get better. On the other, it's just a home studio where I'm making vanity recordings for myself - I.e, I'm a musician first and foremost. I have to remind myself that as sexy as it may seem at times, gear is just a means to an end. Honestly, the stock stuff that comes with Logic works pretty damn well, so generally speaking, when making a purchase, I look for plugs that are missing or lacking in Logic. Logic's suite of compressors are pretty amazing, both in quality, features, and range of character, not to mention they are easy to audition against each other. Are Slate's that much better? Will I use their pre-amp plugs? The mastering stuff looks awesome.. I'm in pretty good shape with mics and pre's - though I'd love to pick up something like a 1073 to complement my D4s, and it would be nice to get another WA-2A so I can bounce some stereo busses or mixes through them. Hmm.. a Silver Bullet or reasonable facsimile would be nice. But those are all things I need to save up for, and a couple extra hundo here and there adds up. I'm feeling dirty for having plug-in GAS. Anyway, thanks for listening in to my internal conversation with myself. Comments and recommendations are welcome.. The only tape machine I have is an Otari MTR-12 that I rescued from an NBC storage unit in New Jersey. Honestly, I'm 22 so I don't really have experience with real Studer's, but I get a lot of use out of the Virtual Tape Machines, especially when the deadlines / time restraints of a given project don't allow for me to run it through real 456 or ATR tape, when I feel like that would add something to the mix. I also think the custom series EQs, and V76 preamp emulation sound really nice, especially the custom series eq's as far as plugin EQs go. The new Rev A 1176 compressors are also solid for parallel compression until I get my Splice MKII. Finally, I think their new de-esser / MB comp is one best and most transparent de-essers I have ever used in my (short) life. I still use FabFilter MB for more surgical / complex MB comp applications, but for quick de-essing the Slate one sounds great... I can just use one instant of that where I would have used 2 instances of the FabFilter DS / MB before in a lot of cases. I even had one mastering gig I did for a client where he had another engineer record and mix vocals, who somehow managed to get sibilant male vocals from a SM7b. I put the Slate De-esser on the entire track on one of the "mastering" settings, and was able to tweak it till it drastically cleaned up the sibilance, and did so transparently / without effecting the rest of the mix.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 9, 2016 13:37:01 GMT -6
Awesome, I'm waiting for UPS so I can sign for it as we speak. Glad the VCA count doesn't keep it from getting "gritty", because theoretically it should also have the possibility to be ultra clean with there being 4 VCA's running in parallel per channel, and with each channel having their own side chain VCA. Another example of why one shouldn't go based on specs / design alone, I suppose. Interested in trying it for lead vocal parallel compression also, which Mike honestly couldn't have made easier. Thanks for sharing your experience with it, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 7, 2016 22:31:33 GMT -6
I found it to be subtle on some mixes, and not at all subtle on others. It really depends on what's going on in the mix. I found it especially useful when a vocal was on the dull side. Do you mean you'll throw it directly on the vocal channel? Or when you throw it on the mix buss it brings out / livens up the vocal a bit?
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 7, 2016 22:29:47 GMT -6
Oh, guess I was late to the party with that last post.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 7, 2016 22:28:54 GMT -6
Is there a 19" rack mount unit of the SB4001? The 1176 Black/Blue stripe box is the one I'm very interested in. Is there anyone else that has used this piece and have more to say on it? They have the SB4000, which is a DIY kit that you can buy pre-built. It lacks one of the auto release modes, the mix/parallel feature, and the THD button feature though.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 5, 2016 17:02:40 GMT -6
The G series is probably the most "transparent" setting compared to the other emulations, probably followed by the E Series. That's probably why I typically prefer these two modes, especially for mix buss duties. It adds a nice cohesive feel to the mix, some nice separation, and "analog" depth without altering my mix / adding too many harmonics. The E series is kind of a happy median, and the one I use the most, as it adds a bit more tone and harmonics than the G, while still not drastically changing anything. I'll also use the same approach when applying the G and E series channel plugins to individual tracks. There are times when I'll throw the Neve emulation on (either the kick drum channel and/or drum buss) or the mix buss, and I'm like "damn I need to turn the kick down / tweak the EQ a bit", cause it definitely enhances the low mids. Nothing super drastic, but enough to be noticeable and have a slight impact on the mix... though more times than not it's in a nice way.
I also have VCC1, and to my ears, they did a much nicer job on VCC2. I didn't start using VCC regularly at all until VCC2 came out.
Any VCC2 users find anything they particularly love the RC Tube on? That, followed by the Trident emulation probably get used the least over here. I'll occasionally use the Trident setting for overheads, hi-hat spot tracks, and hand percussion.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 5, 2016 16:47:35 GMT -6
I picked up a Roll Music RMS 755 stereo mix compressor, it cost more than the Serpent Audio 500 sereis comp here in the UK but I've been very impressed with this unit. The bass end is very tight and BIG, and the Roll seems to add a lovely sparkle to the top end in a very "analog" way .... well it is analog :-) It doesn't do the SSL mid crunch sound like a Smart C1, but that's not my thing anyway it's more open sounding but with a great control of the envolope. Definately worth a demo, it's become my favourite mix bus compressor at the moment. Ended up getting the Serpent, thanks guys! I'll let ya know how I like it. As for a more opened, natural mix buss compressor, I have a Tube Tech LCA-2A that was just cleaned up real nice by my friend/tech here in Nashville. I was looking for a contrasting tone / compression type so that I have different options for different genres. I love the LCA 2A... its technically a VCA, so it's fast as hell, but it's almost like a mix between a VCA and a vari-mu based on it's design, since a dual-triode acts as the VCA. It definitely retains a good bit of that Tube Tech sound. Can either be clean or very tubey, and is an amazing BGV and drum buss compressor as well. Imparts a nice weight to mixes, and I tend to like it on RnB/soul, swing, and acoustic (singer/songwriter) tracks a lot on the mix buss. The Serpent will be more for pop mixes and heavier genres.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 4, 2016 15:08:56 GMT -6
I've had good experiences with VCC2. I use it in conjunction with Dangerous Music summing. I feel like when I use VCC channel on individual tracks (it is normally one of the, if not the first insert on just about all of my individual tracks), by the end all that "subtly" builds up and I notice quite a big positive difference as far as depth, tone, and how everything sits in the mix. A lot of the time i'll even use the mix buss VCC, in addition to analog summing. I feel like they each add their own thing. I agree with the SSL G and especially the E on most tracks (vocals, acoustic instruments, keys/synths, etc) being my favorites. I'll use the Neve and API channel emulations on drums and electric guitars every now and then, but as for the mix buss emulations I almost always use the E series, with the G probably being used 2nd most frequently. Another thing I will do with VCC that I really enjoy, is putting it on my FX sends / busses in my DAW, which makes it sound a little more like a console send / aux.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 4, 2016 14:37:26 GMT -6
Thanks for your feedback! I plan on picking up a Splice MKII as my next compressor purchase one way or another. It always seems to come back to these two units as far as this style of mix buss compression, even when I open it up to other model suggestions. Leaning towards the Serpent, which is reassuring based on your experience.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 4, 2016 13:50:09 GMT -6
Seeing if I can revive this post! I posted in more detail on the SSL Style comp poll before I saw this, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the SB4001 and the TK BC501. If I were to be getting the Serpent, I would be doing so in the next 9 hours while it's still $250 off ($999). Would mainly be using it on the mix buss, but I'm sure it would also get used on the drum buss, BGVS buss, and even vocals every now and then. I'm definitely looking for versatility, and the ability to have the compressor be both "clean" and "gritty/snappy/punchy", unless one just really excels on mix buss duties over the other, which, as of now, doesn't really seem to be the case. I've met Mike, who seems like a great guy and even better compressor designer, and it seems like the Serpent has more going on under the hood. The addition of the extra side chain options and variable release is cool also. Both come highly recommended to me though, and I'd like to gather some last minute opinions if possible before I spring for the SB4001 today.
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Post by topshelfmg on Nov 3, 2016 23:02:05 GMT -6
Perfect timing for this post! A SSL Style VCA comp is probably going to be my next major purchase. Though they aren't listed in the poll, the 2 ones I am between at the moment is the TK Audio BC501 and the Serpent Audio SB4001. I've heard a little bit of both, and heard the Serpent at Summer NAMM (for what that's worth), and met Mike from Serpent (who definitely knows what he's talking about) and I think both sound great in their own right. The Serpent is on sale for $250 off ($999, matching the TK) with the last day being tomorrow, so if I were to pick up the Serpent, it would probably be within the next 24 hours. Unfortunately I haven't been able to demo either, and Vintage King doesn't carry the Serpent stuff so I wouldn't be able to schedule a time to do a true audition between the two.
To me the Serpent sounds a bit cleaner (which makes sense since it uses 4 VCA's per channel in parallel), with a VCA per side chain bringing the grand total up to 10 VCA's. The TK is 1 per channel, with a single dual VCA in the sidechain. It seems like you can get a bit more "grit" out of TK with its respective THD button engaged, though its only a subtle bit more than the Serpent. I'm looking for both "clean" and "grit / punch", depending on the project. I've heard less of the TK, but it comes highly recommended. The TK seems a little more true to the design inspiration, while the Serpent seems cleaner, and slightly more versatile due to the extra release and sidechain features. These observations are both coming from limited samples of each unit, so I figure some hands on experience could push me over the fence. Bonus points to each for the mix/parallel feature in my book.
Anyone have experience with either? 500 series would probably be preferred, but if anyone has any other suggestions 500 series or otherwise I'd be interested to hear them. For this particular purchase, I'd love to keep it under $1,200. The Elysia Xpressor would also be pretty badass, and though the SSL inspiration is there, seems like it has it's own thing going on. With that said, I don't feel the need for it to sound perfectly like a SSL G comp. Similar to what was said earlier in this post, it sometimes sounds better for it to not be completely authentic to a SSL. Would be using it on the normal stuff (mix buss mainly, drum buss...maybe BGVS buss and occasional vocals?)
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Post by topshelfmg on Sept 18, 2016 23:33:26 GMT -6
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate it. A lot of what I've learned over the years has been due to resources such as RGO, so I am happy that Randy directed me here.
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