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Post by Quint on Apr 3, 2024 14:54:02 GMT -6
Other than the clock, and that depends on how you view the clock as a component, all of the other mod components are analog components, so there wouldn't really be any parts that could be "checked" by the system. I'm curious about this mod. I've considered it before, but never pulled the trigger. It's not even because I necessarily had any complaints about the sound. It was mostly just FOMO, but that always got cured when I looked at the price and wondered if it actually made a difference. That said, I do own two x16s, so I would actually be able to mod just one and then do a true A/B comparison. That's always been part of my reason for not doing the mod. Before I got a second x16s, I was always put off by the ability to do a real comparison, and was otherwise left to reading opinions or listening to loopback files which were still passing thru my own Apollo. So I never could be convinced to pull the trigger. Maybe one of these days. I'll be curious to see what John thinks. Can you hear a difference between your x8 and x16 converters? cheers Wiz I've never had any of the 8 channel models. I used to have a silverface 16, and then upgraded to an x16, ultimately adding a second x16.
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Post by Quint on Apr 3, 2024 13:45:00 GMT -6
I've always been curious what might happen after the mod if Universal Audio decides to update the firmware. Does it do a components check like some PCs do? Other than the clock, and that depends on how you view the clock as a component, all of the other mod components are analog components, so there wouldn't really be any parts that could be "checked" by the system. I'm curious about this mod. I've considered it before, but never pulled the trigger. It's not even because I necessarily had any complaints about the sound. It was mostly just FOMO, but that always got cured when I looked at the price and wondered if it actually made a difference. That said, I do own two x16s, so I would actually be able to mod just one and then do a true A/B comparison. That's always been part of my reason for not doing the mod. Before I got a second x16s, I was always put off by the ability to do a real comparison, and was otherwise left to reading opinions or listening to loopback files which were still passing thru my own Apollo. So I never could be convinced to pull the trigger. Maybe one of these days. I'll be curious to see what John thinks.
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Post by Quint on Apr 2, 2024 6:13:20 GMT -6
I've had a pair of BM5As that are about 20 years old. They still work fine. I only just upgraded to a different pair of monitors last year, and that was only because I was jonesing for a 3-way, so I got the Neumann KH-310s, which I have been very happy with.
That said, I'd agree with some of the advice above about using what you know (the BM6As). I guess it depends on how long you think you will continue to want or need a functional pair of monitors. Or, if you're feeling that sort of retirement age urge to splurge, just get something nice like a new 3-way, and live a little.
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Post by Quint on Apr 1, 2024 13:05:14 GMT -6
I like the famous "artists" interviews .... well the part when the artists speak. I asked ChatGPT if it could code me a "RB Blocker" extension for Google but alas so far ChatGPT hasn't been able to help I joke - I'm being mean. His channel is alright - I just get a bit tired of the endless self-promotion and check "me" stuff - but he is actually quite a good interviewer. He's using his current popularity to draw in some great musicians to interview - who are only on there of course to promote their current project. RB is probably making $50K month - good luck to him. I haven't cared for all of his whining about how some of his videos get taken down for copyright infringement. I'm like, you work in the music industry, and are making money by basically standing on the shoulders of the people who actually wrote/played these songs so that you can create some kind of lame "how to" video on what "makes a song great". The artist interviews are fine, and in some cases even good, but I can't watch his other videos. And if he is actually making $50k a month off of his videos, I find his whining all the more distasteful then.
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Post by Quint on Apr 1, 2024 6:51:40 GMT -6
I found that more watchable than Rick Beato Rick Beato is watchable?
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Post by Quint on Mar 28, 2024 11:33:47 GMT -6
Wow - that’s impressive - a big sound I imagine. Two questions. Which converters do you use to handle so much I/O? What is your strategy for recalling the hardware? Thanks THT my system is a Universal Audio Apollo system with an Apollo eight, two Apollo 16s, and an Apollo X4 on my desktop. I have several high-end converters connected to the digital I/O on the Apollos. For anything less than two channels, conversion is Burl, Lynx Hilo, or Svartbox. A second Lynx Hilo is always on the Master buss. For everything else, I use the conversion on the two Apollo 16’s. I make hardware decisions about what sounds and feels good to me, and then I print that back into my session alongside the original tracks. If I ever need to recall a mix, the hardware is already printed into my session. In rare circumstances, I can always take the original tracks and re-run them through outboard if something isn’t working in the mix. My master buss settings almost never change so if I ever need to recall, then it’s a non-issue. In rare circumstances, I might throw an extra piece of gear on the master buss, and when I do that, I will be careful to note the settings. I have a pair of x16s and when the new Apollos come out (but also not until Luna gets HW inserts) I'll get a third 16 channel Apollo for a total of 48 channels of HW inserts. That's as far I ever intend to take it though.
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Post by Quint on Mar 28, 2024 11:20:15 GMT -6
I've never found any specifics about exactly what Lanois has used for reverb... believe me I've gone digging. Found old Mix & various articles on Kingsway in NOLA etc... and maybe we call it trade secrets but there's not much to go on. Seems like, from interviews & whatnot he's the kinda guy who just won't get into specifics on that stuff. Or miking drum kits or anything of that sort. Has said things like he's more concerned with studios having enough power outlets & XLR cables... yet... well... obviously he knows what all the gear is. Obviously cares. A lot. Can tell you what I don't hear listening to his records... Like Wrecking Ball? That's not a Lexicon verb. Its not an EMT either. None of the usual suspects. And there's absolutely a good amount of 'stairwell' or ballroom or something happening. When I do the mono cancel trick, listen to the sides the room tone & leakage is really obvious. And Kingsway was/is an old 1890s mansion or something of the sort... so there 'ya go right? Ever catch this? Seems like nothing but room to me. Maybe a little extra 10% from something else, but mostly the natural space and digging for tone. Putting that work in. The "magic" is the simplicity? That's all I've ever come up with. Well that rhythm section is sick. That doesn't hurt. And yeah, that sounds like drums quietly played in a very live room. Very cool. So I went on a hunt for Lanois studio stuff, and came across this: Interestingly enough, within the first minute of this video, he talks about how he doesn't like room sound. So who knows what to make of that... Either way, this was a cool look inside Lanois' studio. A more recent version of his studio, in fact.
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 16:33:03 GMT -6
The reverb/delay/room/space/whatever on the Willie record Teatro is a benchmark for me. It's never been clear to me what all was used by Lanois on that record to create the overall ambience and space, or if anybody really knows (and has publicly divulged it)? But I would like to know. I would suspect it's a combo of that room (the actual theater in Oxnard, CA) and the usual suspects in Lanois's considerable delay/verb rack. Have you seen the making of video? Certainly the bleed from having two drummers firing at once is part of the sound as well. Yes. I have seen that. It's great. I guess I just need to go and read up more on what all he has in his rack for reverb/delay.
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 15:37:29 GMT -6
I don’t know the interview but he produced the Joe Henry album Fuse. In 1999. Lanois mixed some of it, but I have become somewhat obsessed with the bass sound on the title track. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to try and get that sound. Flatwounds. After that I have no idea. Fuse
Thoughts? Cheers, Geoff Overall that track kinda reminds me of Emmylou's Wrecking Ball... the overall space...depth... its so open & naked. And that big lush Lanois reverb. What WAS he using in those days?! The reverb/delay/room/space/whatever on the Willie record Teatro is a benchmark for me. It's never been clear to me what all was used by Lanois on that record to create the overall ambience and space, or if anybody really knows (and has publicly divulged it)? But I would like to know.
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 8:23:49 GMT -6
Sorry if this is a daft question but is this our Tbone as in Tbone81? If not, any vid's examples, songs etc.? T-Bone Burnett is a Texas based producer who is famous for Americana type stuff but has worked on a ton of things. I'd say he hit the mainstream consciousness with the soundtrack for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? because it was such a sensation but people heard him doing Counting Crows, Elvis Costello, Wallflowers, and a million other things even if they didn't know it. More recently he's worked Allison Kraus, Brandi Carlisle, and a bunch of stuff in that world of things. He was also a guitar player with Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue tour in the 70's. But I'd say he's most known these days for being the standard bearer for old school recording. People in a room. Real instruments. No headphones. Complete takes. Etc. etc. How much of that is true or not is beyond my knowledge, but that's how I think of him. Ever seen the documentary on the Rolling Thunder Revue? It's worth watching. There are some pretty great live versions of Dylan songs from that era (late 60s to mid 70s Dylan being the best Dylan, IMO). I also enjoyed the discussion at various points about Scarlet Rivera, the violin player in Dylan's band. She was apparently dating Gene Simmons at the time, and would sometimes walk around with a sword strapped to her side.
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Post by Quint on Mar 21, 2024 12:26:22 GMT -6
I have pretty much all of the exact same comments about Apollos and workflow as you have stated here. I have a pair of x16s, and will likely be adding a third 16 channel Apollo (for a total of 48 channels) whenever the new generation is released. I use my 2192 via AES for simple two track stuff. It all works great and sounds great with Luna. I have other complaints about some of UA's business practices, etc., but the quality of the Apollos, Luna, and workflow are generally not one of them*. *I WOULD like to see the next gen Apollos have better routing. That's why I've held out on buying a third x16. I'm hoping the new gen will be better in that context. totally agreed - about some of the business practices and the future routing… Even though I paid TONS of money for all my UAD plugins including ones that are now being almost given away, I remind myself that my system and plugins owe me nothing. I have made a living off of them for a LONG time. I don't generally disagree with you about not being owed anything from UA, for plugins I bought in the past. It's some of the other things that have been going on that I don't love. As for routing, I just want them to use a bigger FPGA in the next Apollo. It would be nice to have things like more stereo cues and stuff like that, especially without having to make a tradeoff on how many ARM paths are available in Luna. It's too much of a compromise, in my opinion.
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Post by Quint on Mar 21, 2024 12:22:43 GMT -6
UA Console has keystrokes? What can you do with them? Presumably you still have to target the Console window for them to apply. They are listed on page 65 and 66 of the current manual: media.uaudio.com/support/manuals/v11.0.0-y2Bz6/Apollo%20Thunderbolt%20Software%20Manual.pdfYeah, you still have to have the Console app engaged for them to work, otherwise you will likely be triggering things in your DAW instead. I know most of the PT quick keys and all the ones I need in Console so it makes it easy to fly around and do what I need to do. I have considered adding a Softube Fader just for the sole purpose of controlling Console, but it's kinda a lot of money for just that. Mark II Console 1 units are being heavily discounted right now. $349. Also, there is the Console Midi thing from Radu Varga. You can use any midi controller at that point to control Console. www.raduvarga.com/software/ua-midi-controlAnd, also, there is obviously Luna, which removes the need to even mess with Console at all but, that obviously requires you to switch DAWs from whatever you're using now.
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Post by Quint on Mar 21, 2024 10:14:11 GMT -6
I’m with ya wiz. My studio is centered around a large Apollo system w 4 apollos (two of those are Apollo 16’s) and a couple octo plugin accelerators. The workflow for me is unbeatable. I think aside from a large scale pro tools rig, there is nothing else out there that touches it for workflow. The sound quality has been great for me and I’m working on the Mark ii series. For DA to my monitors, master buss conversion, mastering, and things like lead vocals, stereo sources, or when recording only one or two channels at a time, I use high end conversion which is connected to the Apollos digitally.. (2x Hilo, Burl, 2x Svartbox). It leaves me wanting for nothing. And there are many times I have traveled remotely and just brought my Apollo twin with me for recording sessions with very well-known artists. The results we achieved were excellent. No complaints from anyone. In the past I used to have a much more elaborate system with an outboard mixer and hub for headphone mixes. It was quite complicated and didn’t allow me to give each musician the best headphone mix. And sonically did not sound as good. What I’m able to do with the Apollo system is truly remarkable and far exceeds my previous system. I like the system so much that after a couple decades of being on PC, I switched to Mac. Although I was able to use my Apollo system on PC, Universal Audio is clearly more dedicated to the Mac platform. My current rig is my favorite I’ve ever had and has been rock solid. I have pretty much all of the exact same comments about Apollos and workflow as you have stated here. I have a pair of x16s, and will likely be adding a third 16 channel Apollo (for a total of 48 channels) whenever the new generation is released. I use my 2192 via AES for simple two track stuff. It all works great and sounds great with Luna. I have other complaints about some of UA's business practices, etc., but the quality of the Apollos, Luna, and workflow are generally not one of them*. *I WOULD like to see the next gen Apollos have better routing. That's why I've held out on buying a third x16. I'm hoping the new gen will be better in that context.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 18:32:43 GMT -6
So you're using dedicated word clock cables? I wasn't clear on that? Yes, this is the reason I changed directions from the Apollo. Although Console is easy to use, it’s still not ideal for me with my outboard. I'm not sure I follow what that has to do with word clock cables though? Were you intending to respond to somebody else?
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 17:25:09 GMT -6
Yeah, something is wrong. Sounds like something is up with your AES connection. Could be the cable. Could be a word clock issue. Could be a settings issue on either the Apollo or Dangerous which is causing issues on the software side. It’s definitely not my dangerous converters, but I don’t have this issue with my apogee converters they pass exactly what I hear and use the dangerous clock. It must be something in the settings or that 75 ohm switch? I also noticed going in through my AD+ the headroom is compromised and I can’t hit my compression or my level input nearly as high as I can with my other converters . I also noticed this on my Lavry converter between spdif and AES, the AES port sounded much more open, and just all around better compared to spdif My cables are top-notch and I swapped out a few of them and got the same results So you're using dedicated word clock cables? I wasn't clear on that?
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 17:04:52 GMT -6
Something’s not right. If it’s just going digitally, it wouldn’t be going through the ADDA, right? . That’s what I thought that digital is digital, right? When I use my USB in and out with my Dangerous convert converters usb directly ion and out of my computer there is a huge difference in headroom and overall width and quality. When I pass through the Apollo, it’s not even close., and to be honest, not useable IMO. Yeah, something is wrong. Sounds like something is up with your AES connection. Could be the cable. Could be a word clock issue. Could be a settings issue on either the Apollo or Dangerous which is causing issues on the software side.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 15:17:50 GMT -6
Does anyone know if the Apollo Black Lion Mods on a Blackface 16 MKII will be as good as the X series? Does anyone notice from going thru the AES port on their Apollo X to their D/A sounding different than without it? In other words taking the Apollo out of the chain. I noticed my D/A is compromised in sound even going through the AES port on the Apollo. It’s very noticeable, stereo width/punch/clarity/fullness/closeness to the sound. It’s at least a 30% difference maybe more. Is the 75 ohm Word Clock termination button on the Apollo turned on, if you're using a WC connection and/or are you sure that you're alternatively getting a clock signal embedded in the AES connection and, if so, that your other DA is properly receiving this embedded clock signal?
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 12:42:29 GMT -6
Seems like ten years ago we were hoping for a 2192 version of an Apollo. Still my favorite AD ever. Maybe that will be 4th gen : ). As per the question about paying to upgrade old technology - for me, it was that I know I really liked the BLA modded Apollo. So much so that I am reticent to try the "X" line - my modded Twin was so much better than its original sound, I did not want to risk it. I also really like the BLA Revolution, so apparently I just really respond well to their sound. I will also note that I really do enjoy the Apollo work flow, and recording through console. When I have tried other systems (Apogee, Prism, Antelope) I found myself messing with tech and losing flow. All this to say I can empathize with JK's dilemma of wanting ideal sound, but also wanting to reduce friction on the process. If he is in a similar situation (likes the Apollo workflow and liked the BLA Revolution sound) trying the BLA mod on the 6 could be a way to achieve a sound he liked while keeping the work flow he likes. Especially since its hundreds of dollars rather than thousands (I haven't looked at high end two channel conversion in a while but I assume ihey all still start around 2k). Anyway - if we are voting, count me in on a 2192 Apollo : ) JMH I just use my 2192 WITH my Apollo, via AES. Best of both worlds, I say.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 10:48:43 GMT -6
We are seeing the same: just wish UA, would bring it’s A game on releasing some more significant recording gear, not the low hanging fruit. Agreed. But I doubt they will, unfortunately. New Apollos are the best it will likely get.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 10:38:32 GMT -6
Agreed, UA seems more intent on squeezing as much dough as possible off of essentially older plugs, little new cost and little hardware related that’s very bold: guitar pedals: seriously ? I wonder what Bill senior would think of current UA hardware innovation ? From an "I want UA to be a true blue pro audio company" perspective, I don't love the guitar pedals either. However, from a "this is what the brave new world of music gear looks like, and this is the stuff that people are buying, which keeps us in business" perspective, I can't fault UA for going after what is some pretty low hanging fruit, where all of the R&D was basically already done. Slap it in a pedal box and sell it for 60% profit. Investors could argue that it would be irresponsible on a fiduciary level to NOT pursue the pedal market. Also, the pedals do apparently sound pretty good. So there's that. But I do miss the days of UA making things like the 2192 or 8110. Super high quality hardware seems to be somewhat of an afterthought over there now. Not that the Apollo isn't perfectly fine, but it's not next level like the 2192 was when it was released.
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Post by Quint on Mar 19, 2024 9:40:14 GMT -6
But why put $100’s into a 5-8 year old interface design, when a new Apollo must be coming? I tend to agree that a new Apollo is probably not too far off, but I also thought a new 4th gen Apollo would have already been released a while back, at least based on the frequency of previous releases. The X series came out in 2018. That said, maybe UA figures that the Apollo has reached maturity in its design. I mean, some other companies release new gen converters at a much slower frequency. How long were the original Lynx Auroras around before the new (n) series came out? At least 10 years, huh? So I suppose it's possible that UA won't continue to release new Apollo generations as often as they did in the past. Guess we'll see. Up until fairly recently, I was convinced that a new 4th gen Apollo would already be out by now, but now I'm maybe not sure what to think.
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 10:56:14 GMT -6
Was talking lynx not UA ! I see now. You didn't quote anybody when you responded, so I thought you were talking to me.
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 7:57:02 GMT -6
Not what they told me when I asked them
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 7:53:42 GMT -6
The Apollo x16 also has the 24dB capability as well. It's a nice feature to have.
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Post by Quint on Mar 14, 2024 9:00:14 GMT -6
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