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Post by wiz on Mar 20, 2024 16:27:21 GMT -6
There has been a lot of talk about HDX , Apollo, Pro Tools, AD convertors....
I am just now overdubbing a vocal.. and it struck me what I am actually doing....
I have a Mac mini M1, with 8 GB ram, running Ventura.
I am using LUNA and have an Apollo X8 and an Octo Satellite (8 DSP chips in it, and 6 in the Apollo for a total of 14)
I am tracking (overdubbing) my lead vocal, into a finished song.
I am using my U87i into 1084 Unison Preamp... I have c-suite noise reduction (not being printed just monitored) and a plate reverb as a comfort verb on the channel...as well as Studer A800 tape on that channel as well....
I have my mix buss with its full compliment of plug ins instantiated, including ATR102, API 2500, Ozone 11 !!!!!!.... all my verbs running. (Sound City, AMS RMX, Bricasti outboard, Pure Plate) EZdrummer 3, EZ bass VI's, all the guitars in the song...each of these tracks has A800 studer tape on them, EQ (pro q3) and UA comps like Fairchild, LA3A etc Sonarworks is running on the MAIN outs...
my Mac isn't breaking a sweat, the metering in Luna is 37% way in the green... my DSP usage is 47% and I am monitoring my vocal with no perceptible latency at all.....without committing the tape processing, the noise reduction processing....I also just tried it for the heck of it...and I can also run AUTOTUNE realtime X on that track and monitor pitch correction with no problems....
Luna was and is free.....
I do everything to do with routing inside LUNA I don't have to use an external software mixer....
The sound is glorious...
Now I am not saying this is for everyone... because everyone's needs are vastly different....but it's great for me...
cheers
Wiz
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2024 16:43:36 GMT -6
Testify, Wiz!
I haven’t been on Apollo platform for years, but I had SF and BF and thought they were really great. If I had wanted more of an all-in-one solution, I’d still be using Apollo.
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Post by wiz on Mar 20, 2024 16:56:08 GMT -6
Testify, Wiz! I haven’t been on Apollo platform for years, but I had SF and BF and thought they were really great. If I had wanted more of an all-in-one solution, I’d still be using Apollo. The interesting thing as well .... is the cost of this entire system.... excluding the bricasti... 8) Also I think there is no rush in reality for a new Apollo.....and personally I don't think it's coming any time soon...like in the next year cheers Wiz |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 20, 2024 16:56:37 GMT -6
No offense, it’s not about balance but preference.
If you prefer the X and Luna: that’s great, others may feel differently.
One is not right (balanced) and the other wrong, (unbalanced).
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Post by phantom on Mar 20, 2024 16:58:43 GMT -6
Yep. Anything will work these days.
I bet one could make the same thread about a Behringer interface and reaper, using only stock plugins.
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Post by wiz on Mar 20, 2024 16:59:47 GMT -6
No offense, it’s not about balance but preference. If you prefer the X and Luna: that’s great, others may feel differently. One is not right (balanced) and the other wrong, (unbalanced). It is about balance in my view as an owner of the system....because there is a lot of discussion about it and a lot of it sort of negative...and I am using it everyday.... There was a question from a user in the last couple of days, about getting an Apollo and some of the advice was to wait for a new one... So to me balancing the discussion was important to me.... my work is free to view/listen to at my website...they can listen to that and decide if the sonics are something they like or dislike.... No offence taken... cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Mar 20, 2024 17:01:52 GMT -6
Yep. Anything will work these days. I bet one could make the same thread about a Behringer interface and reaper, using only stock plugins. Hey do you think with that system you mention, you could overdub into the song as I am doing? with the amount of plugs I am running and get near zero latency? @svaart you are the reaper guy, could it do that? If so that's a very good thing for those financially challlenged cheers Wiz |
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Post by svart on Mar 20, 2024 17:13:46 GMT -6
Yep. Anything will work these days. I bet one could make the same thread about a Behringer interface and reaper, using only stock plugins. Hey do you think with that system you mention, you could overdub into the song as I am doing? with the amount of plugs I am running and get near zero latency? @svaart you are the reaper guy, could it do that? If so that's a very good thing for those financially challlenged cheers Wiz I get around 5ms latency at 128 samples tracking through some plugs in Reaper with my motu interfaces. Occasionally with really high track counts, like 30+ with some amp sims and stuff, I might have to increase to 256 samples and I get around 10ms of latency. Barely perceptible. I generally don't track with reverbs or stuff like Soothe because the PID latency on those is really high and can cause an audible delay. Otherwise yeah, I track all the time with most of my plugs already in place in my template. |
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Post by doubledog on Mar 20, 2024 17:40:36 GMT -6
I'm using my Apollo Silver (firewire) on Windows. It really works great most of the time. There are some major quirks that I have to work around (like power sequence, and for some reason I cannot use 2048 samples at 96KHz or it will BSOD). But it still works great 99% of the time (and that 1% I can't always prove who's at fault anyway). I have a load of nice outboard pres (since this Apollo has none). I'm always looking at new interfaces that have 16 or more built-in I/O channels because I know that FW will eventually go away (but if I don't change anything this system still works great). I'm mainly looking down the road to see what I'd get if this unit died. I also have a Quad PCIe card so I use a combo of DSP and native and doing just fine. It sounds way better than my old Digi002 - even the BLA mod. I also had an Orion 32 and a Lynx Aurora for a short time and I liked the Apollo best.
edit: I also have never used Luna for obvious reasons. That was just another empty promise from UA. But I honestly don't care because I'm happy (well, maybe not happy, but I'm getting along) with Pro Tools.
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Post by phantom on Mar 20, 2024 17:41:32 GMT -6
Yep. Anything will work these days. I bet one could make the same thread about a Behringer interface and reaper, using only stock plugins. Hey do you think with that system you mention, you could overdub into the song as I am doing? with the amount of plugs I am running and get near zero latency? @svaart you are the reaper guy, could it do that? If so that's a very good thing for those financially challlenged cheers Wiz Probably. And yes, it's really great that we have options for every budget. Apollos and Satellites are affordable as well, if you think about other "more pro" options. |
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Post by bubblejackets on Mar 20, 2024 19:28:52 GMT -6
This is more on the anecdotal side but I “had” to track vocal with the x8 conversion recently because the other AD (hilo) was getting fixed. It was comparable I think (maybe just some basic mic position adjustments)? I tend to freeze everything out of habit, but I’ve had an m1pro for a year now and it didnt break a sweat.
Where I do notice more of a sonic difference is running outboard loops thru x8 vs hilo.
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Post by brenta on Mar 20, 2024 19:59:50 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too.
I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did.
I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC.
I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 20, 2024 20:04:47 GMT -6
Rule #1 of audio never knock what works.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2024 20:05:42 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too. I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did. I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC. I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time. What’s an LFAC? |
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Post by copperx on Mar 20, 2024 20:37:54 GMT -6
Just a note for those using Reaper. Maybe this is really obvious, but I felt really dumb after discovering it.
By default, Reaper does anticipative FX processing (render-ahead) of 200 ms. Which means that if you have ANY plugin in any track, even if it is a zero-latency plugin, the latency will be of at least 200 ms. Make sure to disable anticipative FX processing if you're tracking. Software defaults are powerful, and Reaper has some weird ones (in my opinion).
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Post by drbill on Mar 20, 2024 20:49:42 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too. I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did. I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC. I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time. What’s an LFAC? Large Format Analog Console. Only for old timers.....  |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 20, 2024 20:49:49 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too. I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did. I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC. I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time. What’s an LFAC? A very large thing that as cool as it would look would not fit in your room or my new place. At least my wife says it won’t. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 20, 2024 20:50:57 GMT -6
Large Format Analog Console. Only for old timers..... Who you calling old ? |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 20, 2024 21:03:08 GMT -6
Large format Analog Console
Me!
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 20, 2024 21:20:38 GMT -6
I probably come across as a massive hater given the amount of shit I talk, but I can’t deny that I loved the Apollo ecosystem when I had one. It was really hard to move away from it as it basically became second nature to me over the 5 or 6 years I had mine.
I’m actually very jealous of Apollo owners who are able to get great recordings/mixes. I’ve heard many awesome tracks made with Apollos, and it was always insanely frustrating because I was never able to make mine sound the way I wanted.
But still, the plugins are fantastic, tracking through Console is an almost flawless experience, and the Unison pres are a really cool concept, even if I ended up not really using them.
If you’re getting great sounds with your Apollo, more power to you. Keep doing what you’re doing. I totally respect that and secretly wish it would have worked for me.
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Post by copperx on Mar 20, 2024 21:20:51 GMT -6
Speaking of LFACs, were there ever small format or medium format consoles? If so, what are some examples?
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Mar 20, 2024 21:24:48 GMT -6
Balance.... what balance?  ? We are talking about converters in 2004 i mean 2024..... |
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2024 21:29:09 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too. I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did. I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC. I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time. UA Console has keystrokes? What can you do with them? Presumably you still have to target the Console window for them to apply. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2024 22:28:15 GMT -6
Large Format Analog Console. Only for old timers..... Well I’m not that young…I know and love consoles…but I’ve never seen them referred to with that acronym |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 20, 2024 22:43:44 GMT -6
Large Format Analog Console. Only for old timers..... Can you somehow get FLAC from LFAC? |
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? We are talking about converters in 2004 i mean 2024..... 