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Post by drsax on May 17, 2019 13:32:54 GMT -6
Both of the Chandler mics seem squarely targeted at home studio / people who don’t have a basis for knowing what is desirable in a working scenario. [ I respectfully disagree wholeheartedly. I think they are new and extremely useful options in a professional studio toolbox. Although both Chandler microphones have features that are handy for home recordings or anyone recording themselves, to say they are aimed at home studio people is way off in my opinion. They are top notch microphones that stand against classics. I have several great Neumann mics. My Chandler sees much more use. They are not priced for the home recordist and the features require more knowledge and experience than the average home recordist. These are top notch professional pieces. |
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Post by drsax on May 17, 2019 14:03:21 GMT -6
I had a chance to test the TG a little bit at NAMM and as I switched through the settings I had definite preferences for certain settings on my voice. I sometimes think we get lost in what a mic or piece of gear is doing technically and sometimes we forget to just see what moves us emotionally. In many of the greatest recordings ever done that we all aspire to, engineers chose sounds that moved us emotionally. Overthinking has killed results here many times. Although I like to understand what is happening technically, when I buy a TG, Mic, and I hope that is soon, I think flipping the switch until it sounds right for the Session is the best way to get the most out of it. And regarding boosts vs cuts, especially with high quality components like those in Chandlers gear, I think it’s less critical whether it’s a low boost or a high cut, it effectively shapes the sound in the same way. With plugins or cheap components, that would be a concern to me, but not with quality analog components. I want a TG bad. Love Chandlers mics... the REDD sees a ton of use here I think there is some misunderstanding. The question only arose because John was thinking I should have been able to get around the hi-fi nature of the TG’s top end by using one of the EQ settings that mellowed it out. I had said I didn’t think there were any settings that mellowed the top and since then we were just trying to get a straight answer to that simple question. Boosting bass is not the same as rolling off top. I don’t even mean it as a critique of the mic, I’m just curious to know. I already returned mine because it was too bright on me but I did like the general tone of the mic as I’ve said. I understand where you’re coming from. It’s always nice when a mic captures the source exactly the way you want it. I’ve gotten such killer results from my REDD, but often put a high shelf EQ on to cut the highs. And when I do that I get a very classic sound which still usually outperforms my Neumann’s. |
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Post by drbill on May 17, 2019 14:13:25 GMT -6
I think there is some misunderstanding. The question only arose because John was thinking I should have been able to get around the hi-fi nature of the TG’s top end by using one of the EQ settings that mellowed it out. I had said I didn’t think there were any settings that mellowed the top and since then we were just trying to get a straight answer to that simple question. Boosting bass is not the same as rolling off top. I don’t even mean it as a critique of the mic, I’m just curious to know. I already returned mine because it was too bright on me but I did like the general tone of the mic as I’ve said. I understand where you’re coming from. It’s always nice when a mic captures the source exactly the way you want it. I’ve gotten such killer results from my REDD, but often put a high shelf EQ on to cut the highs. And when I do that I get a very classic sound which still usually outperforms my Neumann’s. Hey DR - a question for ya....if you've got the time, and don't mind. In your opinion.... I still have a haunting feeling about a drum sound in the overheads that I got on a session using original C12's @ OHenry's in LA years ago. Such a beautiful and open sound with a wonderful HF lift that I cannot re-create. (I currently use Gefell UM70's and I really like them, but they do not open up like the AKG's. I also love my KM53's with AC701's which open up ala a classic 701 tubed Neumann, but again, not the same). I've hunted for that sound again for a couple of decades, and have never quite been able to find it again. There is ZERO chance of a pair of C12's in my future, but many of the descriptions - including yours above - lead me to believe that the REDD might get me close. Any thoughts you'd care to share in specifics to drum OH's with the REDD specifically. (The TG is of course more affordable, but it just doesn't do it for me from the clips I've heard.) |
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 17, 2019 15:09:41 GMT -6
The idea of stopping tracking to flip around what tone setting is best, is I think based on some sort of odd take on what an engineer would tend to want when actually having to get a job done. What about a pad? What about constantly variable polar select? Or at least a figure 8? I absolutely agree about this. I'm personally not a fan of the 20 different setting options on the TG. I had a singer in last weekend with the TG and we tested a handful of the settings. The back and forth with the talent about changing settings wasn't great. It would be much easier to be able to change things from the control room. Plus, we're running the powerful last chorus 5 times just to test our a handful of mic settings that I thought might work best. It's just too deep when you have varied singers in all the time, at least for my workflow. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 17, 2019 15:20:12 GMT -6
Get your hands on the Manley Silver. That thing is no joke. That mic has caught my interest as of late. Do you have one Jesse? I don't own one, but have used it on a couple sessions. Sounds really good. I've got the Gold, but prefer the Silver. |
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Post by ragan on May 17, 2019 15:46:49 GMT -6
Better get that thing.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2019 15:49:08 GMT -6
The idea of stopping tracking to flip around what tone setting is best, is I think based on some sort of odd take on what an engineer would tend to want when actually having to get a job done. What about a pad? What about constantly variable polar select? Or at least a figure 8? I absolutely agree about this. I'm personally not a fan of the 20 different setting options on the TG. I had a singer in last weekend with the TG and we tested a handful of the settings. The back and forth with the talent about changing settings wasn't great. It would be much easier to be able to change things from the control room. Plus, we're running the powerful last chorus 5 times just to test our a handful of mic settings that I thought might work best. It's just too deep when you have varied singers in all the time, at least for my workflow. That’s why there’s a singer AND a producer. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2019 15:54:39 GMT -6
Just to clear up misleading information, there is both a -10db pad and a 50/90hz HPF on the TG mic. There’s also setting #2 that rolls off the bottom end for a high passed setting
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Post by shoe on May 17, 2019 21:36:50 GMT -6
System B is also overall darker to my ear.
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Post by drsax on May 17, 2019 23:30:19 GMT -6
I understand where you’re coming from. It’s always nice when a mic captures the source exactly the way you want it. I’ve gotten such killer results from my REDD, but often put a high shelf EQ on to cut the highs. And when I do that I get a very classic sound which still usually outperforms my Neumann’s. Hey DR - a question for ya....if you've got the time, and don't mind. In your opinion.... I still have a haunting feeling about a drum sound in the overheads that I got on a session using original C12's @ OHenry's in LA years ago. Such a beautiful and open sound with a wonderful HF lift that I cannot re-create. (I currently use Gefell UM70's and I really like them, but they do not open up like the AKG's. I also love my KM53's with AC701's which open up ala a classic 701 tubed Neumann, but again, not the same). I've hunted for that sound again for a couple of decades, and have never quite been able to find it again. There is ZERO chance of a pair of C12's in my future, but many of the descriptions - including yours above - lead me to believe that the REDD might get me close. Any thoughts you'd care to share in specifics to drum OH's with the REDD specifically. (The TG is of course more affordable, but it just doesn't do it for me from the clips I've heard.) - Hey brother, I haven’t used the REDD on OH yet as I’ve been swamped for months here... but... I have a pair of Innertube Audio Mag Mics with Vintage AKG CK 12 capsules and they sound stunning. Excellent on OH. VERY solidly in C12 / 251 territory. So much so that an engineer in a major studio here in Colorado put one of my Mag Mics Up against his primo vintage c12 in a great room and dropped his jaw. He liked my Mag Mics better.... and they sounded so close to each other. Now, with that said... I have used the Mag Mics and the REDD extensively on saxophone and also on vocals. Here’s the kicker... The REDD outperforms my Mag Mics in both those applications. And those Mag Mics outperformed a great c12. Based on that, I would expect insane results from the REDD on drum OH. Personally I wish I had a second REDD to use for stereo drum overheads. Maybe someday. You should hit up Adam from Chandler and see if he can arrange for you to try a pair on OH. The beauty of the REDD for me is that the lows and mids are full and creamy, with silky highs up into the extended range. It’s like the best of both worlds. Big lows, full mids, and sweet highs. |
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Post by drbill on May 17, 2019 23:47:42 GMT -6
Hey DR - a question for ya....if you've got the time, and don't mind. In your opinion.... I still have a haunting feeling about a drum sound in the overheads that I got on a session using original C12's @ OHenry's in LA years ago. Such a beautiful and open sound with a wonderful HF lift that I cannot re-create. (I currently use Gefell UM70's and I really like them, but they do not open up like the AKG's. I also love my KM53's with AC701's which open up ala a classic 701 tubed Neumann, but again, not the same). I've hunted for that sound again for a couple of decades, and have never quite been able to find it again. There is ZERO chance of a pair of C12's in my future, but many of the descriptions - including yours above - lead me to believe that the REDD might get me close. Any thoughts you'd care to share in specifics to drum OH's with the REDD specifically. (The TG is of course more affordable, but it just doesn't do it for me from the clips I've heard.) - Hey brother, I haven’t used the REDD on OH yet as I’ve been swamped for months here... but... I have a pair of Innertube Audio Mag Mics with Vintage AKG CK 12 capsules and they sound stunning. Excellent on OH. VERY solidly in C12 / 251 territory. So much so that an engineer in a major studio here in Colorado put one of my Mag Mics Up against his primo vintage c12 in a great room and dropped his jaw. He liked my Mag Mics better.... and they sounded so close to each other. Now, with that said... I have used the Mag Mics and the REDD extensively on saxophone and also on vocals. Here’s the kicker... The REDD outperforms my Mag Mics in both those applications. And those Mag Mics outperformed a great c12. Based on that, I would expect insane results from the REDD on drum OH. Personally I wish I had a second REDD to use for stereo drum overheads. Maybe someday. You should hit up Adam from Chandler and see if he can arrange for you to try a pair on OH. The beauty of the REDD for me is that the lows and mids are full and creamy, with silky highs up into the extended range. It’s like the best of both worlds. Big lows, full mids, and sweet highs. Sweet!! Sounds like somewhere I'd like to head. I love my inner tube insert on my vintage U87, and actually, I think I need to try that on OH. It's still neumann-ish, but also open up top. Almost C12 ish. Adding a second vintage 87 with inner tube mod might be a killer pair for OH. So many mics, so little time.....  Thanks for the excellent explanation. I def need to try a REDD at some point. <thumbsup> |
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Post by drsax on May 18, 2019 0:23:35 GMT -6
drbill - Hey brother, I haven’t used the REDD on OH yet as I’ve been swamped for months here... but... I have a pair of Innertube Audio Mag Mics with Vintage AKG CK 12 capsules and they sound stunning. Excellent on OH. VERY solidly in C12 / 251 territory. So much so that an engineer in a major studio here in Colorado put one of my Mag Mics Up against his primo vintage c12 in a great room and dropped his jaw. He liked my Mag Mics better.... and they sounded so close to each other. Now, with that said... I have used the Mag Mics and the REDD extensively on saxophone and also on vocals. Here’s the kicker... The REDD outperforms my Mag Mics in both those applications. And those Mag Mics outperformed a great c12. Based on that, I would expect insane results from the REDD on drum OH. Personally I wish I had a second REDD to use for stereo drum overheads. Maybe someday. You should hit up Adam from Chandler and see if he can arrange for you to try a pair on OH. The beauty of the REDD for me is that the lows and mids are full and creamy, with silky highs up into the extended range. It’s like the best of both worlds. Big lows, full mids, and sweet highs. Sweet!! Sounds like somewhere I'd like to head. I love my inner tube insert on my vintage U87, and actually, I think I need to try that on OH. It's still neumann-ish, but also open up top. Almost C12 ish. Adding a second vintage 87 with inner tube mod might be a killer pair for OH. So many mics, so little time..... Thanks for the excellent explanation. I def need to try a REDD at some point. <thumbsup> you’re welcome man. I’ll bet your Innertube 87 would sound great on OH. And I think a REDD pair would be sublime |
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Post by ragan on May 18, 2019 0:28:15 GMT -6
Saw this the other day. One of the first shootouts I've heard between the two.
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miklo
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Post by miklo on May 18, 2019 1:51:22 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on May 18, 2019 8:26:42 GMT -6
Have they published the actual curves for this mic? And if not, why not? Why would they publish that? So every Tony with a soldering iron can build a diy and claim it’s better and “here’s what they did wrong?” |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 9:31:35 GMT -6
They also encase the main gain reduction element of their Germ Comps in plastic so no one can see what's going on. I love their gear but they do seem to be very precious with their knowledge. I guess they have to be? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 9:32:59 GMT -6
Have they published the actual curves for this mic? And if not, why not? Why would they publish that? So every Tony with a soldering iron can build a diy and claim it’s better and “here’s what they did wrong?” No, so that every user could understand better what was going on with each of the modes. |
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Post by mulmany on May 18, 2019 10:54:25 GMT -6
You have to remember that this is officially licensed by Abbey Road. I am sure there are legal issues that come along with it.
I ran the mic in flat, because I didn't have a lot of time to experiment with the settings. But as I learn the settings it should make things easier.
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Post by shoe on May 18, 2019 12:06:05 GMT -6
Yeah, I mean, part of their thing (apart from excellent quality) is that they have access to special info licensed to them by EMI/Abbey Road. If they went around publishing that I think there would be consequences for them.
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Post by chessparov on May 18, 2019 13:33:11 GMT -6
Yes, there's always the "Maxwell Silver Hammer" clause!
Regarding "microphone critiques"...
IMHO (like what Ragan, John K. and others do here), it's very beneficial to post microphone comparison/shootouts.
This an excellent way to help avoid "dancing about architecture", and builds a better frame of reference.
Otherwise we could be arguing-ahem discussing in the spirit of "why bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly"!
I also think that those who are "very opinionated", should give examples of their recorded efforts. (professional credentials/discography doesn't hurt either!). It's a world of difference being "an amateur enthusiast" (hey that's me!), vs. being a "Bob Ohlsson", or a "Klaus Heyne"!
Chris
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Post by Johnkenn on May 18, 2019 15:17:43 GMT -6
EMI i.e. Sony doesn't fuck around with intellectual property...ask several manufacturers on this board lol.
And I can attest to Sony not screwing around...they own some of my catalog and would rather it collect dust than give it back.
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Post by chessparov on May 18, 2019 18:01:16 GMT -6
I like your post John, but not how Sony won't cooperate better!
Chris
P.S. Always learn from and enjoy your vocals too MJB.
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ardis
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Post by ardis on May 21, 2019 13:29:42 GMT -6
Maybe it's just me but I think having options is great. Honestly if you're picking a mic for a voice you must have an idea behind it and if you're familiar with the mic, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to dial something in. Not sure? leave it flat.....
Vocal sample was very cool. The Redd was fuller and the Tg seemed to catch the rasp in her voice. They certainly match well! Liked the tune!....
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Post by Bat Lanyard on May 23, 2019 19:22:33 GMT -6
And I can attest to Sony not screwing around...they own some of my catalog and would rather it collect dust than give it back. Lol, same here. |
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Post by sirthought on May 29, 2019 7:01:38 GMT -6
I love the TG mic on kick, but ended up using it more for overhead on a recent session. I felt it had a natural and open sound. Very full range. Mono,cuz I just have one, but honestly it works with the close mics panned slightly. No vocals recently, but I've been happy with that before.
Maybe my ears are shot, because I don't hear issues with too much high end that keeps getting brought up. (I guess it's possible.) I wonder if you're all just trained to sound of the Neumann.
I'm still pleased with the purchase! But, yeah that knob is different to deal with. That's life.
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Thanks for the excellent explanation. I def need to try a REDD at some point. <thumbsup>
