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Post by johneppstein on Jul 27, 2018 10:23:28 GMT -6
Great thread,thanks everyone.. I've met Dave Pearlman before (super nice guy), and was very impressed with his microphones. I plan to visit Vintage King, around the Holidays, and bring a couple of my best microphones to shoot out against the mighty M88/SM7/RE20 trio. The best signal chain for the SM7 I ever tried (sang) through, was SM7>Little Labs LMNO Pre. Never realized how much detail a premium pre like that could bring out of the SM7. Honestly, all "the hype" that went on various boards regarding the SM7, had kind of previously soured me on that microphone. Always will have a soft spot for the M88, most likely will select the M88TG. Planning to stay around $400. Maybe next year, I can consider Dave P.'s TM-2, version of the TM-1, that runs about a grand. My Soundelux U195 (especially in FAT mode), is suppressing any gearlust (right now ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ) , in the LDC department. The U195 cardiod pattern, however, is VERY wide. Great for a good sounding studio recording room-on the typical home environment-well you guys know how that works! Almost sounds like an omni, which I have even greater respect for, once I learned Karen Carpenter's classic vocals (and what a voice!) were cut at A&M, on a U87 "stuck" in omni. Because my vocal tone is unsually mellow, so the MXL V87 & V69 work better than most other singers. (At best the capsules sound "assertive"-a step away from harsh IMHO). Neither microphone has a significant sibilance issue on me (V87 is pretty flat/V69's boost is way above my sibilance area 6.5 KHz), but that "breathy" issue is a whole 'nother ballgame. FWIW the first AKG D790 I bought (new), is remarkably similar to the M88. I should have kept my TG model though, foolishly sold it! That M88TG is the only piece of gear I ever regretted selling. The second D790 I bought used probably spent its life in front of an amp, and still sounds very good, but not "as good" as the D790 I bought new. John E. is braver than me, I'd just about have a conniption (quietly inside) if anyone bumped the mic stand and my M88 hit the floor! Totally optional, but if anyone else wants to review the two brief acapella clips I posted recently, feel free listen to the recordings, and make any comments. They were a little experimental! Thanks again for all the help. Chris P.S. BTW am a huge Elvis Presley/Johnny Cash/Jerry Lee Lewis/Carl Perkins and Roy Orbison fan! Well, I'm a pretty conservative deal hunter most of the time - my TM-1s came in in the $1,000 -$1,250 range used.
Have not listened to your Donovan covers yet - I will - I used to love Donovan back in the day before he went totally in children's territory. Catch the Wind, Season of the Witch, Young Girl Blues, Sunny Googe Street - all that stuff.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 27, 2018 10:39:50 GMT -6
I'm not a big fan of the Genelecs I've hears. I like ATCs quite a bit. I'm a huge fan of the Trident HG3 monitors that have the swiveling mid-high section with the fixed bass. They're a Harvey Gerst design,. who did a lot of the classic monitor designs for JBL in the pre-Harman days. I pretty much "grew up" listening to his designs.
I'm not a Genelec fanboy either, for some reason they get used a lot in metal (usually the 8040's or 1030's) and I never cared for them but the Co-axials are pretty good. Although at $8K a pair there is other options y'know.. Heard many good things about the Tridents, I might check them out at some point..
How could I miss pinball? You're a life saver John ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) .!
I must say that if I was buying monitors now I would not go for the Q8s. They work OK for us - we're used to them - but there are a lot of things that I don't like, especially in the midrange, so I always do final checks on other systems. When I was still in SF I'd take mixers down To Audio Images and listen on the Tridents in their listening (not display) room, but up here in lovely Fairfield I have to use the system in my car because the closest pair of really good monitors I have access to are down in SF. Oddly enough, things do work out OK, with the indispensable help of Bob O's mastering genius.
Maybe after I pay down my credit cards I'll see if I can still get AIC to honor the killer deal that Ron offered me before he died two years ago on a pair of Tridents it's been a long time but I've been dealing with them for 35-40 years, soo.... (crossing fingers...)
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2018 11:00:37 GMT -6
Thanks so much John, those two Donovan covers are "Catch The Wind" and "Hurdy Gurdy Man".(I NEVER use pitch correction BTW) The other 60/70's psychedelic bands I'm studying (especially vocals) include The Byrds/Jefferson Airplane/Traffic/Spirit/Love/Doors, that kind of "thang".
Shadow, how much would you guesstimate was the cost of the acoustical treatment you used?
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 11:23:10 GMT -6
Thanks so much John, those two Donovan covers are "Catch The Wind" and "Hurdy Gurdy Man".(I NEVER use pitch correction BTW) The other 60/70's psychedelic bands I'm studying (especially vocals) include The Byrds/Jefferson Airplane/Traffic/Spirit/Love/Doors, that kind of "thang". Shadow, how much would you guesstimate was the cost of the acoustical treatment you used? Chris Hmm, about $1400.00 if I remember correctly.. Used some of it to build a small vocal booth though which works well.!
I'm sure I could of made them cheaper but y'know time isn't something I have tons of (usually)..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2018 21:19:52 GMT -6
Don't want to derail the thread, but you guys are talking about Donovan covers, and my buddy Dusty Wright just released a cover of "mellow Yellow", and get this, Donavan's actually the one saying "quite rightly" on it! dustywright.bandcamp.com/track/mellow-yellow
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2018 22:04:23 GMT -6
That's awesome! I'll listen later tonight. In fact, I plan to listen to some of the music, that everyone on this thread has put out. BTW Martin, I really like your voice! Chris
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 28, 2018 2:48:28 GMT -6
I got a lot of early pointers on live mic technique by watching live videos of Elvis.
Oh hell yes. You are speaking my language.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 28, 2018 7:28:09 GMT -6
That's awesome! I'll listen later tonight. In fact, I plan to listen to some of the music, that everyone on this thread has put out. BTW Martin, I really like your voice! Chris Thanks chesparov. I really appreciate your comment, and the support I've gotten from some of the great guys here. My vocal style is not traditional, so I don't think of myself as a singer in the way singers like Chris Isaak, Paul Rodgers, Bono, Sam Cook are, but I'm not so off center to be thought of as quirky like Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, Dylan. When I hear someone like Tom Petty, it seems on the surface he's a good but not great singer, but you can listen to him all day, and you believe what he sings, so he's actually a great singer. I hope my vocals are like that, not necessarily obviously great like Elvis, Chris Isaak, Bono, etc., but meaningful. Shadow, got any photos of the studio we could see?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 8:02:26 GMT -6
That's awesome! I'll listen later tonight. In fact, I plan to listen to some of the music, that everyone on this thread has put out. BTW Martin, I really like your voice! Chris Thanks chesparov. I really appreciate your comment, and the support I've gotten from some of the great guys here. My vocal style is not traditional, so I don't think of myself as a singer in the way singers like Chris Isaak, Paul Rodgers, Bono, Sam Cook are, but I'm not so off center to be thought of as quirky like Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, Dylan. When I hear someone like Tom Petty, it seems on the surface he's a good but not great singer, but you can listen to him all day, and you believe what he sings, so he's actually a great singer. I hope my vocals are like that, not necessarily obviously great like Elvis, Chris Isaak, Bono, etc., but meaningful. Shadow, got any photos of the studio we could see?
I do, but I tend not to post them publically anymore after someone must of seen a pic on GS.. Broke into my house at 5AM, stole my brand new bimmer and took off with half my music equip plus a couple of laptops..
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 28, 2018 16:13:28 GMT -6
[...] Shadow, got any photos of the studio we could see?
I do, but I tend not to post them publically anymore after someone must of seen a pic on GS.. Broke into my house at 5AM, stole my brand new bimmer and took off with half my music equip plus a couple of laptops..
Ooh, yikes. That had to be a very, very, very bad morning when you woke up.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2018 18:20:26 GMT -6
Yes Martin, I agree that your singing sounds "meaningful". Along with that,your voice has excellent tone naturally.
Shadow, I'm also sorry to hear that incident happened. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 13:22:56 GMT -6
I do, but I tend not to post them publically anymore after someone must of seen a pic on GS.. Broke into my house at 5AM, stole my brand new bimmer and took off with half my music equip plus a couple of laptops..
Ooh, yikes. That had to be a very, very, very bad morning when you woke up. Yeah wasn't the best morning, it does make you re-consider what's important in life..
I think the main thing is just to crack on with it, but I seem to have a lot of issues.. I recently got a second hand 6176 and it sounds great but the limiter packed up.. So this is why I tend not to buy second hand, also when I bypass the 1176 "style" limiter I prefered the pre's in my soundcraft mixer (not the first time either)..
They are clean / clear / very high headroom with a hint of fattening colour. You can't really ask for more, the issue I have with the Soundcraft isn't one of sound quality but one of practicality.. It's either one thing or the other with cheap gear, it either sounds bad or compromised.
There's a lack of hardware inserts, so you can't track with HW unless you buy seperate pre-amps.. So you can't use a compressor inline, you'd need an external pre / comp.. Which is a pain because I've struggled to find a pre (with 70dB's worth of clean gain) that I like more than the mixer's pre's..!
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Post by iamasound on Jul 30, 2018 1:15:48 GMT -6
Ooh, yikes. That had to be a very, very, very bad morning when you woke up. Yeah wasn't the best morning, it does make you re-consider what's important in life..
I think the main thing is just to crack on with it, but I seem to have a lot of issues.. I recently got a second hand 6176 and it sounds great but the limiter packed up.. So this is why I tend not to buy second hand, also when I bypass the 1176 "style" limiter I prefered the pre's in my soundcraft mixer (not the first time either)..
They are clean / clear / very high headroom with a hint of fattening colour. You can't really ask for more, the issue I have with the Soundcraft isn't one of sound quality but one of practicality.. It's either one thing or the other with cheap gear, it either sounds bad or compromised.
There's a lack of hardware inserts, so you can't track with HW unless you buy seperate pre-amps.. So you can't use a compressor inline, you'd need an external pre / comp.. Which is a pain because I've struggled to find a pre (with 70dB's worth of clean gain) that I like more than the mixer's pre's..!
Have you tried a Daking Mic Pre One? It isn't too costly and might fit the bill.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 8:28:26 GMT -6
Yeah wasn't the best morning, it does make you re-consider what's important in life..
I think the main thing is just to crack on with it, but I seem to have a lot of issues.. I recently got a second hand 6176 and it sounds great but the limiter packed up.. So this is why I tend not to buy second hand, also when I bypass the 1176 "style" limiter I prefered the pre's in my soundcraft mixer (not the first time either)..
They are clean / clear / very high headroom with a hint of fattening colour. You can't really ask for more, the issue I have with the Soundcraft isn't one of sound quality but one of practicality.. It's either one thing or the other with cheap gear, it either sounds bad or compromised.
There's a lack of hardware inserts, so you can't track with HW unless you buy seperate pre-amps.. So you can't use a compressor inline, you'd need an external pre / comp.. Which is a pain because I've struggled to find a pre (with 70dB's worth of clean gain) that I like more than the mixer's pre's..!
Have you tried a Daking Mic Pre One? It isn't too costly and might fit the bill.
I've got two broken one's on a shelf in the garage, sent one of them back to Thomann to fix and the humming was sorted but still something very wrong with it.. I cut my losses and moved on..
Quite interested in the DAV BG1U (66 dB gain) lots of praise etc.
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Post by ericn on Jul 31, 2018 9:41:36 GMT -6
Great thread,thanks everyone.. I've met Dave Pearlman before (super nice guy), and was very impressed with his microphones. I plan to visit Vintage King, around the Holidays, and bring a couple of my best microphones to shoot out against the mighty M88/SM7/RE20 trio. The best signal chain for the SM7 I ever tried (sang) through, was SM7>Little Labs LMNO Pre. Never realized how much detail a premium pre like that could bring out of the SM7. Honestly, all "the hype" that went on various boards regarding the SM7, had kind of previously soured me on that microphone. Always will have a soft spot for the M88, most likely will select the M88TG. Planning to stay around $400. Maybe next year, I can consider Dave P.'s TM-2, version of the TM-1, that runs about a grand. My Soundelux U195 (especially in FAT mode), is suppressing any gearlust (right now ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ) , in the LDC department. The U195 cardiod pattern, however, is VERY wide. Great for a good sounding studio recording room-on the typical home environment-well you guys know how that works! Almost sounds like an omni, which I have even greater respect for, once I learned Karen Carpenter's classic vocals (and what a voice!) were cut at A&M, on a U87 "stuck" in omni. Because my vocal tone is unsually mellow, so the MXL V87 & V69 work better than most other singers. (At best the capsules sound "assertive"-a step away from harsh IMHO). Neither microphone has a significant sibilance issue on me (V87 is pretty flat/V69's boost is way above my sibilance area 6.5 KHz), but that "breathy" issue is a whole 'nother ballgame. FWIW the first AKG D790 I bought (new), is remarkably similar to the M88. I should have kept my TG model though, foolishly sold it! That M88TG is the only piece of gear I ever regretted selling. The second D790 I bought used probably spent its life in front of an amp, and still sounds very good, but not "as good" as the D790 I bought new. John E. is braver than me, I'd just about have a conniption (quietly inside) if anyone bumped the mic stand and my M88 hit the floor! Totally optional, but if anyone else wants to review the two brief acapella clips I posted recently, feel free listen to the recordings, and make any comments. They were a little experimental! Thanks again for all the help. Chris P.S. BTW am a huge Elvis Presley/Johnny Cash/Jerry Lee Lewis/Carl Perkins and Roy Orbison fan! The Soudelux / Bock / Soundelx U series is a surprisingly good sounding mic, but I always wondered what it would sound like if you were to replace that hand picked Chinese capsule with something really special.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 31, 2018 14:25:50 GMT -6
I was kind of wondering about that, be interesting to pop in a K47 capsule, for me. The flatter K47 style seems to generally sound better on me, on most microphones.
Down the road, I may mod at least one of my other microphones. A cheapie like the AKG 200, for some boot camp practice. Fun, if I have extra time.
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 14:33:16 GMT -6
I was kind of wondering about that, be interesting to pop in a K47 capsule, for me. The flatter K47 style seems to generally sound better on me, on most microphones. Down the road, I may mod at least one of my other microphones. A cheapie like the AKG 200, for some boot camp practice. Fun, if I have extra time. Chris
I wanna hear this SM7B through the magic pre combo, I've never heard a good example of an SM7 or B through <Insert pre-amp here> on vox.. Mediocre is about the best IMO it can do. Damn handy mic though (like super handy), real shame I'm not a fan...
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Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2018 14:56:21 GMT -6
Maybe time for a Bricasti?! Many skip over the impact of effects and yes dry mic'ing is the new fashion icon but songs that lasted the ages have one thing in common, atmosphere. That for me is what truly seperates the wheat from the chaff and it's accomplished by a more "natural" approach, it's the glue that binds the player to the listeners emotion.. Whaddya mean "maybe"? It's ALWAYS BRICASTI TIME!
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Post by chessparov on Jul 31, 2018 15:12:24 GMT -6
AFAIK Marshall Crenshaw exclusively uses the SM7 for his studio vocals. That might give a good example of the SM7's potential. If I can wrestle-ahem borrow a friend's SM7 eventually, I can post a vocal example (or two). Don't laugh, but the Studio Projects VTB-1 is a nice pre for those (I prefer it set on "Solid State"), as it's very clean/quiet on higher gains. I forget if I mentioned earlier (busy week), but IMHO the Little Labs LMNO Pre is absolutely fantastic on the SM7. UA610 is excellent too, but the LMNO had the "magic". Neve-r tried a Neve 1073 (real, tribute, or clone) yet, but still wonder about that chain too. I might experiment with SM58>VTB-1 and hear if anything (at least halfway) good comes out of that! Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 15:26:49 GMT -6
AFAIK Marshall Crenshaw exclusively uses the SM7 for his studio vocals. That might give a good example of the SM7's potential. If I can wrestle-ahem borrow a friend's SM7 eventually, I can post a vocal example (or two). Don't laugh, but the Studio Projects VTB-1 is a nice pre for those (I prefer it set on "Solid State"), as it's very clean/quiet on higher gains. I forget if I mentioned earlier (busy week), but IMHO the Little Labs LMNO Pre is absolutely fantastic on the SM7. UA610 is excellent too, but the LMNO had the "magic". Neve-r tried a Neve 1073 (real, tribute, or clone) yet, but still wonder about that chain too. I might experiment with SM58>VTB-1 and hear if anything (at least halfway) good comes out of that! Chris I've heard a ton of examples all the way from Scar Symmetry to Metallica over to MJ, plus it's a go to for metal in general.. The words talent over gear has never been more true with that mic..
I'm not saying it's a horrible mic or a decade old budget condenser that makes you wanna rip your ears off.. It's just out of an entire mic locker I've never said, oh yeah the SM7 stands with the best and I tend to like the SM58 / 57 more which is far cheaper.
Where it shines like no other is crap rooms.. For all the flak I give it, that mic's saved my ass on more than one occasion when live tracking. Hence a home recording staple..
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Post by Guitar on Jul 31, 2018 15:40:12 GMT -6
I think the incredible thing about the SM7B is just how well it works. I've tried a dozen dynamic vocal mics, and the SM7B is probably my #1. Even though I don't own one at the moment.
It just never seems to be the wrong mic, and I've gotten some killer tracks out of it on a variety of voices, including my own.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 31, 2018 15:40:29 GMT -6
I totally understand. Along with that, honestly I DO get influenced by someone like John Leckie (big recording hero of mine), being a fan of the SM58 and SM7 (particularly for brighter voices-like mine). Including Monkeyxx's last post right above mine! Or for that matter, Jack Douglas buying that 2nd(!) AA CM251 microphone. I figure he (just might ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ) know a "leeetle" more about microphones than me. Chris
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Post by Ward on Aug 1, 2018 5:25:21 GMT -6
Well... here's another thread that's jumping the shark . . . what next? Extolling the virtues of Behringer?
Oops... I said the 'B' word. I'll show myself out now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 5:35:18 GMT -6
Well... here's another thread that's jumping the shark . . . what next? Extolling the virtues of Behringer? Oops... I said the 'B' word. I'll show myself out now.
Sorry buddy, you've lost me here.. What do you mean?
P.S Behringer rocks, actually nope.. No, I just can't do it.
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Post by ericn on Aug 1, 2018 8:21:47 GMT -6
Maybe time for a Bricasti?! Many skip over the impact of effects and yes dry mic'ing is the new fashion icon but songs that lasted the ages have one thing in common, atmosphere. That for me is what truly seperates the wheat from the chaff and it's accomplished by a more "natural" approach, it's the glue that binds the player to the listeners emotion.. Whaddya mean "maybe"? It's ALWAYS BRICASTI TIME! m Agreed you buying this round😁
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