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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 25, 2018 17:47:08 GMT -6
Bad rooms definitely make it harder, but I'm not so sure about great monitors being more important than the right mic. I had to sell my lovely Avantone Abbeys last year to pay bills. I borrowed a set of NS-10's and bought a nice little Adcom amp for them. I realize the detail isn''t there, but my mixes have been translating at least as well as they did before, maybe even better. I'd have to conclude it's the familiarity with the speaker that's more important. That doesn't mean I don't want a pair of ATC's or Barefoot's, I really like them, but I'm not so sure they'd affect the outcome all that much.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 25, 2018 17:50:29 GMT -6
I think people listen differently. Me, personally, I'm a really intensive listener, so I have to have a very particular monitoring chain. There seems to be a spectrum of "pickiness" with listeners/musicians. Some people almost rank on the "fan/don't care" end, and others on the "analytical/mastering engineer/true audiophile" end of things. I'm probably somewhere in the middle, but a little closer to the second one. I've seen people of any category make compelling music. Of course I tend to prefer the more "ear candy" audiophile worthy type of stuff. Or "1990's standard production" at the bare minimum. I realize that I am confusing musicians with producers and mixers right now, ideally there'd be one or two of each in any given project.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 17:54:35 GMT -6
It is hard to find a pair of real monitors for under $1k, but the speaker guy in me hates, and I do mean hates to admit this but crappy speakers in a good well treated room more often than not sound better than great speakers in a crappy untreated room. As a simple aside so many active monitors especially inexpensive ones are handicapped by the crappy amps ! Yeah I agree, my point is it's rather obvious.. If half your frequencies are cancelling themselves out then what sort of genius would decided it's better to upgrade their monitors? You don't see people trying to drive a car with no wheels ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ..!
If your room is a major issue then my advice at least is get a decent set of headphones, I have some AT MTH??! whatever's and whilst I don't get that ridiculous clarity (the sort that makes you jump because you think someone's knocking at the door, but actually you recorded someone knocking on the door but didn't realise it)..
They do translate pretty damn well, I never have issues when putting songs through the car / earbuds / stereo etc. when I've mixed on the road.. It's not ideal but better than spending $4K and thinking your new monitors sound worse than your old one's (probably because they're decent full range)..
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 25, 2018 17:56:09 GMT -6
I think people listen differently. Me, personally, I'm a really intensive listener, so I have to have a very particular monitoring chain. There seems to be a spectrum of "pickiness" with listeners/musicians. Some people almost rank on the "fan/don't care" end, and others on the "analytical/mastering engineer/true audiophile" end of things. I'm probably somewhere in the middle, but a little closer to the second one. I've seen people of any category make compelling music. Of course I tend to prefer the more "ear candy" audiophile worthy type of stuff. Or "1990's standard production" at the bare minimum. Many of the best musicians I have met manage to listen past the limitations of the signal chain and manage to some how focus on the music and performance, others are pickier than any mastering engineer I have ever met.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 25, 2018 18:00:30 GMT -6
Funny, I'm probably pretty far into the audiophile range. I call myself a recovering audiophile sometimes. I used the NS-10's every day for 15 years before I left the music business. Not that I liked their sound, but familiarity counts for a lot I guess.
Here's a little tip I'll pass along. My buddy needed new monitors for his desk. He's no engineer, just a singer/songwriter, but he gets really good tracks with his Focusrite interface and his Lewitt 640 and Warm WA47. He has a very cool, but rather small music room, so we listened to every small speaker around. Every 5 or 6" monitor we could find under $1,000. We picked the little 3" Genelec's. They just killed everything else in depth and clear detail, all the while being very listenable. They would compliment a nice main speaker like Barefoot's or ATC's beautifully.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 25, 2018 18:01:55 GMT -6
It is hard to find a pair of real monitors for under $1k, but the speaker guy in me hates, and I do mean hates to admit this but crappy speakers in a good well treated room more often than not sound better than great speakers in a crappy untreated room. As a simple aside so many active monitors especially inexpensive ones are handicapped by the crappy amps ! Yeah I agree, my point is it's rather obvious.. If half your frequencies are cancelling themselves out then what sort of genius would decided it's better to upgrade their monitors? You don't see people trying to drive a car with no wheels ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ..!
If your room is a major issue then my advice at least is get a decent set of headphones, I have some AT MTH??! whatever's and whilst I don't get that ridiculous clarity (the sort that makes you jump because you think someone's knocking at the door, but actually you recorded someone knocking on the door but didn't realise it)..
They do translate pretty damn well, I never have issues when putting songs through the car / earbuds / stereo etc. when I've mixed on the road.. It's not ideal but better than spending $4K and thinking your new monitors sound worse than your old one's (probably because they're decent full range)..
Hey I’m the guy who thinks if it can’t do 35HZ well it’s. Not worth hearing ! Headphones are great for tracking but I can’t mix on any of them even a pair of Stax ESL’s ( don’t tell my wife I’m trying to convince her I need a pair of New STAX L700 to replace my 20 some year old pair of Lambdas for my 50 th birthday).
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 25, 2018 18:04:19 GMT -6
Funny, I'm probably pretty far into the audiophile range. I call myself a recovering audiophile sometimes. I used the NS-10's every day for 15 years before I left the music business. Not that I liked their sound, but familiarity counts for a lot I guess. Here's a little tip I'll pass along. My buddy needed new monitors for his desk. He's no engineer, just a singer/songwriter, but he gets really good tracks with his Focusrite interface and his Lewitt 640 and Warm WA47. He has a very cool, but rather small music room, so we listened to every small speaker around. Every 5 or 6" monitor we could find under $1,000. We picked the little 3" Genelec's. They just killed everything else in depth and clear detail, all the while being very listenable. They would compliment a nice main speaker like Barefoot's or ATC's beautifully. The little Genelec 1029 was always my favorite, wife stole my pair for desk at work so I had to suffer with 1031’s for years.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 18:05:07 GMT -6
Bad rooms definitely make it harder, but I'm not so sure about great monitors being more important than the right mic. I had to sell my lovely Avantone Abbeys last year to pay bills. I borrowed a set of NS-10's and bought a nice little Adcom amp for them. I realize the detail isn''t there, but my mixes have been translating at least as well as they did before, maybe even better. I'd have to conclude it's the familiarity with the speaker that's more important. That doesn't mean I don't want a pair of ATC's or Barefoot's, I really like them, but I'm not so sure they'd affect the outcome all that much.
Monitors can steer you in the completely wrong direction unless you're fully aware of every individual issue, it's like how does a stupid person know they're stupid? I've been caught out by it before, I thought the Equator D5's were awesome until I compared them to X.. Sure the law of diminishing returns hits pretty high at the $2K+ mark, I tried some PMC's / ATC's and Gethain's against my Dynaudio's but I wasn't pushed to make the jump..
Against some A5X's? I'd be throwing my credit card at the nearest dealers for a better pair, I did like the Adam A77X's but I got the exact same representation as ragan did.. For e.g. if there were a problem in the low end, I could tell there's an issue but I couldn't tell you what the issue was.. With the Dyn's I'm picking out frequencies saying too much 200hz or 65hz or whatever..
So especially when EQ'ing bad monitors can be more trouble than they're worth, you might be better off with a set of stereo speakers (Like the NS-10's apparently)..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 18:18:20 GMT -6
Many of the best musicians I have met manage to listen past the limitations of the signal chain and manage to some how focus on the music and performance, others are pickier than any mastering engineer I have ever met. Leads on to a good topic, at what point are you being excessively picky?
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Post by Guitar on Jul 25, 2018 18:27:49 GMT -6
Many of the best musicians I have met manage to listen past the limitations of the signal chain and manage to some how focus on the music and performance, others are pickier than any mastering engineer I have ever met. Leads on to a good topic, at what point are you being excessively picky?
I would say at the point when "analysis paralysis" sets in. I've reached that point a few times. I've also had to talk other people down from that cliff. And I've had people do the same for me. If it gets too neurotic everything else stops until you pull your head out of your ass.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 25, 2018 20:48:53 GMT -6
That's when you need a second opinion. A buddy of mine sent me a mix of a track from his next album yesterday. I wrote back that it's all wrong, and you probably got lost. I've had that happen to me where nothing works anymore, one little move seems to affect all the other instruments and everything's unbalanced.
I went over to his studio and his mix was fixed in 15 minutes. Things had just gotten away from him, some tracks need a little more on the HPF, reverbs were just a little excessive for the track, bass was boomy at certain notes, drums were a little too compressed, panning choice was just a little off, too many plug-in effects on guitars, etc. Nothing was way off, but the small things added up.
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Post by iamasound on Jul 26, 2018 10:35:18 GMT -6
Hey shad...it's the glue that binds the player to the listeners emotion...
Very cool, indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 12:49:35 GMT -6
Hey shad...it's the glue that binds the player to the listeners emotion... Very cool, indeed. Ha yeah, it's just something I noticed on my travels.. Most of the engineers beginners covet do it by default, you listen to Queen / Bon Jovi etc. and there's always an atmosphere sculpted through various use of blended effects (whether that's from a room, effects pedal, specific instrument etc.).
In terms of analogies it's similar to something else I've noticed on my travels, being involved in a lot of rock and metal I have from time to to come across guitarists that would technically wipe the floor with anything mainstream but couldn't relate said skill in context of a song to save their lives.
Mixing is just the same, getting natural resonant frequencies smushing together does automatically make things sound better and yes all music is subjective but verbs and delays (in any form) wouldn't exist if it didn't make any sense.. It's not like we love broadband distortion on our corn flakes is it?
Holistically managing said approach from tracking to mastering isn't easy (because just like most things they can wreck a mix), but here's the thing I've played a couple of modern tracks through my desk added some lexicon effects on the master and all of a sudden they don't sound like a weak wheazy form of their former selves.
Reverb = power.!!!
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 26, 2018 15:41:58 GMT -6
I think most people would’ve saved themselves a lot of money by simply getting their environmental acoustics dialed in first, then proper monitoring, both mains & headphone amplification. Once you have a space you can make informed descisions in, making evaluations becomes easier and the economy of time and expense lessens.
I mean nothing by this, but that's the sort of statement you post in the low end section of GS when somebody asks what mic or interface they should upgrade to.. Anyone who's been engineering for more than a year or two (in any fashion, not as a pro just even someone who wants better fidelity tracks) should know the shear fundamentals of acoustic impact.
Although I agree, disagree and everything in between with this statement.. I'm sure many will say this is a bold statement but personally I couldn't find a set of monitors under $1K I'd want to work with.. All of them were compromised to the extent you're guessing at some point..
On the flip side there's been many a track professionally mixed on a pair on a pair of Sennheiser HD's with <Insert whatever on the road interface here>.. So, what now? If they can do it, why can't you / we exactly? (P.S I'm not saying it hasn't been tracked through a metric shed ton of expensive outboard though ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) )
Also my other thought is, monitors / room treatment won't save you from VSTI's and less than stellar audio input.. My room is kitted out with GIK, even though it's a small room it has been acoustically tuned by a professional with volume recommendations for monitors etc. My monitors aren't on the cheap side either, I started out with a pair of Event Opals and moved onto Dynaudio LYD-48's.. Simply because I let the Events rot in storage for years.
Y'know what, if I had material recorded in a proper large tracking room with gorgeous natural reverbs and a couple of Schoep's CM's to get the full flavour I'd take the Senny's over a pair of Barefoots in an acoustically proofed room any day of the week..
Because simply put, my room sounds weird.. It's more like an anechoic chamber than anything else, it's eerily dry.. So I have to rely on fake delay's and verbs, which for the most part suck.
Maybe time for a Bricasti?! Many skip over the impact of effects and yes dry mic'ing is the new fashion icon but songs that lasted the ages have one thing in common, atmosphere. That for me is what truly seperates the wheat from the chaff and it's accomplished by a more "natural" approach, it's the glue that binds the player to the listeners emotion..
I'd say that it's probably time to get rid of some (absorptive) treatment and/or add some diffusion.
I'm a big fan of diffusion.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 26, 2018 15:56:51 GMT -6
Bad rooms definitely make it harder, but I'm not so sure about great monitors being more important than the right mic. I had to sell my lovely Avantone Abbeys last year to pay bills. I borrowed a set of NS-10's and bought a nice little Adcom amp for them. I realize the detail isn''t there, but my mixes have been translating at least as well as they did before, maybe even better. I'd have to conclude it's the familiarity with the speaker that's more important. That doesn't mean I don't want a pair of ATC's or Barefoot's, I really like them, but I'm not so sure they'd affect the outcome all that much.
Monitors can steer you in the completely wrong direction unless you're fully aware of every individual issue, it's like how does a stupid person know they're stupid? I've been caught out by it before, I thought the Equator D5's were awesome until I compared them to X.. Sure the law of diminishing returns hits pretty high at the $2K+ mark, I tried some PMC's / ATC's and Gethain's against my Dynaudio's but I wasn't pushed to make the jump..
Against some A5X's? I'd be throwing my credit card at the nearest dealers for a better pair, I did like the Adam A77X's but I got the exact same representation as ragan did.. For e.g. if there were a problem in the low end, I could tell there's an issue but I couldn't tell you what the issue was.. With the Dyn's I'm picking out frequencies saying too much 200hz or 65hz or whatever..
So especially when EQ'ing bad monitors can be more trouble than they're worth, you might be better off with a set of stereo speakers (Like the NS-10's apparently)..
D5s are awesome for certain things - they have great detail and depth, and a good soundstage. What they don't have is bottom.
We still have a pair for second monitors. While I'm not a fan of deliberately mixing for little speakers with no lows like laptop speakers, the D5s can be a great check for what a mix will sound like on such bass deficient systems. And they can let you "hear into" a mix for detail quite well. Our mains are currently Q8s, which have a totally different character, a lot more robust and "rock and roll" but not as detailed (but sometimes detail can be a red herring.) They're not my ideal, but they work for us. I've had my eye (ear) on a pair of Tridents fpr some time, but have been unable to afford them, even at a serious discount - and they might be a bit large for our current room. My "final check" system is the stock system in my 2016 Prius, which I've found to be quite representative of a typical decent consumer system.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 26, 2018 18:16:08 GMT -6
At home, the best area available is no better than the typical domestic bedroom. Fortunately, I have a 24 Hour Key, to my place of work, and my boss is kind enough (actually encourages it!) to let me practice/record "afterhours" there-Not Abbey Road, but way better than at home.
So... Primarily using headphones, ala AKG K52/Sony MDR-V6/AKG 240DF.
I usually record vocals with dynamics, at home. Also practicing with some LDC's, to be more "ready" to do any studio vocals. Supposedly, pretty soon a friend of mine is going to record his solo Reggae album, and I plan to bring my U195 then to add some vocals.
I finally really "get" how getting proper acoustic treatment opens up more options for any recordist, even amateurs like me!. Right now I'm evaluating if I want to sack my MXL's (V87 & V69), for a GAP-73. Part of the issue is that I'm naturally a pretty "breathy" singer and close miking with an LDC, can bring that out too much. The dynamics seem much more forgiving. Gotta go back and improve my vocal technique!
Chris
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 26, 2018 23:05:49 GMT -6
Gotta go back and improve my vocal technique! Chris Funny how often this is overlooked, isn't it? Kudos to you for thinking about it and then trying to do something about it.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2018 0:39:07 GMT -6
Thanks Mark. Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 27, 2018 0:53:52 GMT -6
As a simple aside so many active monitors especially inexpensive ones are handicapped by the crappy amps ! You can say that again!
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 27, 2018 1:07:01 GMT -6
At home, the best area available is no better than the typical domestic bedroom. Fortunately, I have a 24 Hour Key, to my place of work, and my boss is kind enough (actually encourages it!) to let me practice/record "afterhours" there-Not Abbey Road, but way better than at home. So... Primarily using headphones, ala AKG K52/Sony MDR-V6/AKG 240DF. I usually record vocals with dynamics, at home. Also practicing with some LDC's, to be more "ready" to do any studio vocals. Supposedly, pretty soon a friend of mine is going to record his solo Reggae album, and I plan to bring my U195 then to add some vocals. I finally really "get" how getting proper acoustic treatment opens up more options for any recordist, even amateurs like me!. Right now I'm evaluating if I want to sack my MXL's (V87 & V69), for a GAP-73. Part of the issue is that I'm naturally a pretty "breathy" singer and close miking with an LDC, can bring that out too much. The dynamics seem much more forgiving. Gotta go back and improve my vocal technique! Chris I've learned to not "eat" the mic, and I'm constantly working on technique. I have a sibilance problem, exacerbated by dentures that occasionally whistle, despite some minor modifications with my Dremel tool on the upper to break up the laminar air flow behind the front teeth, and have to work to control that sibilance with mic technique, as EQ and De-essers don't work as well. I've alsop given up opn pop filters, preferring to use mic placement and technique to avoid pops.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 27, 2018 1:15:53 GMT -6
At home, the best area available is no better than the typical domestic bedroom. Fortunately, I have a 24 Hour Key, to my place of work, and my boss is kind enough (actually encourages it!) to let me practice/record "afterhours" there-Not Abbey Road, but way better than at home. So... Primarily using headphones, ala AKG K52/Sony MDR-V6/AKG 240DF. I usually record vocals with dynamics, at home. Also practicing with some LDC's, to be more "ready" to do any studio vocals. Supposedly, pretty soon a friend of mine is going to record his solo Reggae album, and I plan to bring my U195 then to add some vocals. I finally really "get" how getting proper acoustic treatment opens up more options for any recordist, even amateurs like me!. Right now I'm evaluating if I want to sack my MXL's (V87 & V69), for a GAP-73. Part of the issue is that I'm naturally a pretty "breathy" singer and close miking with an LDC, can bring that out too much. The dynamics seem much more forgiving. Gotta go back and improve my vocal technique! Chris You should bite the bullet and take a step up in mic quality. Mics like the MXLs will exaggerate "breathiness" and sibilance in a not very nice way.
I started out trying to control such problems with ribbons (notably a vintage Shure 300), which worked up to a point, but things really started coming together for me when a friend left a Pearlman TM1 he was selling with me to demo for a couple weeks. I bought it and later bought another so I could have a pair. It's a much better mic for me than my pre-Sennheiser U87Ai, which I never liked that much on my vocal although it gets used for a lot of other stuff.
Note that the TM1 is a U47-ish tube mic with a rep as being "slightly dark", which I take to really mean "not hyped in the presence region". It's certainly not muddy.
I usually sing from an average of about a foot away, backing off for the loud parts and coming in to maybe 6" for the quiet ones. I position the mic high, no lower than having the capsule lower than my nose, usually a bit higher, but tilted down to point at my mouth. Mic is inverted. That way my breath goes under the mic but it's still focused on the mouth. I sing to the side of the mic (turn my head) on the more sibilant points.
Mic quality trumps preamps any day unless your preamp is really crappy.
Live I use a Beyer M88TG dynamic. Unless I'm having a problem with the PA/monitors that forces me to eat the mic (which I really hate) I tend to use similar techniques live, although I have the mic below, rather than above the mouth. I do occasionally pull in very close to get proximity exaggeration on the lowest notes on a few songs. I got a lot of early pointers on live mic technique by watching live videos of Elvis.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 5:02:33 GMT -6
Monitors can steer you in the completely wrong direction unless you're fully aware of every individual issue, it's like how does a stupid person know they're stupid? I've been caught out by it before, I thought the Equator D5's were awesome until I compared them to X.. Sure the law of diminishing returns hits pretty high at the $2K+ mark, I tried some PMC's / ATC's and Gethain's against my Dynaudio's but I wasn't pushed to make the jump..
Against some A5X's? I'd be throwing my credit card at the nearest dealers for a better pair, I did like the Adam A77X's but I got the exact same representation as ragan did.. For e.g. if there were a problem in the low end, I could tell there's an issue but I couldn't tell you what the issue was.. With the Dyn's I'm picking out frequencies saying too much 200hz or 65hz or whatever..
So especially when EQ'ing bad monitors can be more trouble than they're worth, you might be better off with a set of stereo speakers (Like the NS-10's apparently)..
D5s are awesome for certain things - they have great detail and depth, and a good soundstage. What they don't have is bottom.
We still have a pair for second monitors. While I'm not a fan of deliberately mixing for little speakers with no lows like laptop speakers, the D5s can be a great check for what a mix will sound like on such bass deficient systems. And they can let you "hear into" a mix for detail quite well. Our mains are currently Q8s, which have a totally different character, a lot more robust and "rock and roll" but not as detailed (but sometimes detail can be a red herring.) They're not my ideal, but they work for us. I've had my eye (ear) on a pair of Tridents fpr some time, but have been unable to afford them, even at a serious discount - and they might be a bit large for our current room. My "final check" system is the stock system in my 2016 Prius, which I've found to be quite representative of a typical decent consumer system.
Either I had a duff pair or you need some room correction mic's, stereo field was incredible for sure but they in contrast to better monitors they were overly hyped in the bass region and boxy in the mids.. The Gethain 5" RL906's? Wiped the floor with the Equators (which they should for the price right?), out of the 30 demo pair's I tried before buying in various settings (open hall, recording studio, home studio) the three that epically failed were Focals (recessed crap mids), Equators and KRK's (they're not even trying to be accurate)..
They did re-vamp the Equators with a MK2, I had the MK1 if that makes any difference.
When it comes to monitors I really do have expensive tastes, Genelec co-axials are great, Most PMC's and ATC's, high end Events, Barefoots, Gethain I've never listened to a single pair and said, nope that's wrong.. I just prefer the Dynaudio's because they are neutral, have ridiculous range / clarity and they're easy to work with for a long time.
Tomatoeeee, tomarrrto.. Here's the thing, we can recommend and state opinions but everyone has their own tastes. Some really like KRK's and Focal's, I've always been baffled by it personally.
P.S Plan is to get another house and create a custom from the ground up studio outhouse with a console and tracking room ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) .. Plus a pool and foo's ball room, I mean why not? Mini drinks fridge anyone?
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2018 7:27:05 GMT -6
Great thread,thanks everyone.. I've met Dave Pearlman before (super nice guy), and was very impressed with his microphones. I plan to visit Vintage King, around the Holidays, and bring a couple of my best microphones to shoot out against the mighty M88/SM7/RE20 trio. The best signal chain for the SM7 I ever tried (sang) through, was SM7>Little Labs LMNO Pre. Never realized how much detail a premium pre like that could bring out of the SM7. Honestly, all "the hype" that went on various boards regarding the SM7, had kind of previously soured me on that microphone. Always will have a soft spot for the M88, most likely will select the M88TG. Planning to stay around $400. Maybe next year, I can consider Dave P.'s TM-2, version of the TM-1, that runs about a grand. My Soundelux U195 (especially in FAT mode), is suppressing any gearlust (right now ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ) , in the LDC department. The U195 cardiod pattern, however, is VERY wide. Great for a good sounding studio recording room-on the typical home environment-well you guys know how that works! Almost sounds like an omni, which I have even greater respect for, once I learned Karen Carpenter's classic vocals (and what a voice!) were cut at A&M, on a U87 "stuck" in omni. Because my vocal tone is unsually mellow, so the MXL V87 & V69 work better than most other singers. (At best the capsules sound "assertive"-a step away from harsh IMHO). Neither microphone has a significant sibilance issue on me (V87 is pretty flat/V69's boost is way above my sibilance area 6.5 KHz), but that "breathy" issue is a whole 'nother ballgame. FWIW the first AKG D790 I bought (new), is remarkably similar to the M88. I should have kept my TG model though, foolishly sold it! That M88TG is the only piece of gear I ever regretted selling. The second D790 I bought used probably spent its life in front of an amp, and still sounds very good, but not "as good" as the D790 I bought new. John E. is braver than me, I'd just about have a conniption (quietly inside) if anyone bumped the mic stand and my M88 hit the floor! Totally optional, but if anyone else wants to review the two brief acapella clips I posted recently, feel free listen to the recordings, and make any comments. They were a little experimental! Thanks again for all the help. Chris P.S. BTW am a huge Elvis Presley/Johnny Cash/Jerry Lee Lewis/Carl Perkins and Roy Orbison fan!
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 27, 2018 9:56:42 GMT -6
D5s are awesome for certain things - they have great detail and depth, and a good soundstage. What they don't have is bottom.
We still have a pair for second monitors. While I'm not a fan of deliberately mixing for little speakers with no lows like laptop speakers, the D5s can be a great check for what a mix will sound like on such bass deficient systems. And they can let you "hear into" a mix for detail quite well. Our mains are currently Q8s, which have a totally different character, a lot more robust and "rock and roll" but not as detailed (but sometimes detail can be a red herring.) They're not my ideal, but they work for us. I've had my eye (ear) on a pair of Tridents fpr some time, but have been unable to afford them, even at a serious discount - and they might be a bit large for our current room. My "final check" system is the stock system in my 2016 Prius, which I've found to be quite representative of a typical decent consumer system.
Either I had a duff pair or you need some room correction mic's, stereo field was incredible for sure but they in contrast to better monitors they were overly hyped in the bass region and boxy in the mids.. The Gethain 5" RL906's? Wiped the floor with the Equators (which they should for the price right?), out of the 30 demo pair's I tried before buying in various settings (open hall, recording studio, home studio) the three that epically failed were Focals (recessed crap mids), Equators and KRK's (they're not even trying to be accurate)..
They did re-vamp the Equators with a MK2, I had the MK1 if that makes any difference.
When it comes to monitors I really do have expensive tastes, Genelec co-axials are great, Most PMC's and ATC's, high end Events, Barefoots, Gethain I've never listened to a single pair and said, nope that's wrong.. I just prefer the Dynaudio's because they are neutral, have ridiculous range / clarity and they're easy to work with for a long time.
Tomatoeeee, tomarrrto.. Here's the thing, we can recommend and state opinions but everyone has their own tastes. Some really like KRK's and Focal's, I've always been baffled by it personally.
P.S Plan is to get another house and create a custom from the ground up studio outhouse with a console and tracking room ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) .. Plus a pool and foo's ball room, I mean why not? Mini drinks fridge anyone?
That's odd - I definitely found my D5s light in the bass, not hyped at all. However I believe that the company did a design revision at some point - I wonder if that could have something to do with it? Mine are a very early pair of MKIs.
MY Q8s are definitely NOT light in the bass in the same room and position, and the KRKs I was using before (now my computer monitors on my general use machine) had a slight but definite hyped midbass bump.
When I first installed the Q8s I ran the room correction software supplied with the speakers, using my Earthworks measurement mic and it came out looking pretty good.
I'm not a big fan of the Genelecs I've heard. I like ATCs quite a bit. I'm a huge fan of the Trident HG3 monitors that have the swiveling mid-high section with the fixed bass. They're a Harvey Gerst design,. who did a lot of the classic monitor designs for JBL in the pre-Harman days. I pretty much "grew up" listening to his designs.
Edit: Pool and Foosball are great but ya gotta have a pinball machine. I wish I could buy property and do a proper build-out - I tried before making my last move but the way my money is tied up wouldn't let it happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 10:20:40 GMT -6
I'm not a big fan of the Genelecs I've hears. I like ATCs quite a bit. I'm a huge fan of the Trident HG3 monitors that have the swiveling mid-high section with the fixed bass. They're a Harvey Gerst design,. who did a lot of the classic monitor designs for JBL in the pre-Harman days. I pretty much "grew up" listening to his designs.
I'm not a Genelec fanboy either, for some reason they get used a lot in metal (usually the 8040's or 1030's) and I never cared for them but the Co-axials are pretty good. Although at $8K a pair there is other options y'know.. Heard many good things about the Tridents, I might check them out at some point..
How could I miss pinball? You're a life saver John ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) .!
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