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Post by gouge on Jan 5, 2017 20:49:06 GMT -6
the time has come.
Am looking for recommendations for a good transparent autotune plug.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 5, 2017 21:34:44 GMT -6
Oh oh... heading to the dark side!
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Post by gouge on Jan 5, 2017 22:32:34 GMT -6
it hurts to admit it.
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Post by tasteliketape on Jan 5, 2017 22:59:49 GMT -6
Well I've a feeling a lot more people use it than admit it.lol I will add that sometimes little flaws ,inaccuracies are to me what give music feel,soul,whatever you want to call it. But as stated below Melodyne has saved my ass
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 5, 2017 23:02:37 GMT -6
If you want to do it really really well, I personally don't think anything comes close to touching Melodyne.
It's saved my ass for some live strings I tracked too when the player's intonation wasn't great.
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Post by donr on Jan 5, 2017 23:15:06 GMT -6
I'll only pitch correct something if it bothers me. DP's pitch editor is great for spot fixing something. I've had AutoTune for several revisions, and AutoTune 8 is pretty good if you don't go rad on it. I don't think vocals I mix sound 'tuned.' There's still plenty of rub and nuance in there. But they are.
I'm convinced everyone does it, whether you notice it or not.
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Post by gouge on Jan 5, 2017 23:27:08 GMT -6
Well I've a feeling a lot more people use it than admit it.lol I will add that sometimes little flaws ,inaccuracies are to me what give music feel,soul,whatever you want to call it. But as stated below Melodyne has saved my ass I've had that same discussion so many times with my music partner. 100% agree.
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Post by gouge on Jan 5, 2017 23:30:39 GMT -6
Melodyne looks very good.
Currently I use the mautopitch plug. It is hit and miss but used on a double it adds some thickness but i'd like something to try on the frontline vocals.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 5, 2017 23:32:54 GMT -6
the time has come. Am looking for recommendations for a good transparent autotune plug. Don't. Just... don't.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 5, 2017 23:47:01 GMT -6
I'll only pitch correct something if it bothers me. DP's pitch editor is great for spot fixing something. I've had AutoTune for several revisions, and AutoTune 8 is pretty good if you don't go rad on it. I don't think vocals I mix sound 'tuned.' There's still plenty of rub and nuance in there. But they are. I'm convinced everyone does it, whether you notice it or not. Don, I can't say that I ALWAYS notice it, but what I do DEFINITELY notice is that a lot of "modern" music strikes me as being far more devoid of real feeling than it should be. To me that's a tipoff that it's probably tuned, whether is "sounds tuned" or not. "Pertfection" is bad art. The master rugmakers of Persia always incorporated at least one minute flaw intentionally, because god (or whaqtever deity, force of nature, etc. you might choose) abhors perfection. As the great, immortal Chester Atkins once said "Leave the clams in, it shows you're human!" And Autotune (Melodyne, etc.) doesn't run on my Studer. If it's bad enough to stick out like a sore thumb, retrack the part or punch in. If it isn't, leave it alone.
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Post by donr on Jan 5, 2017 23:59:52 GMT -6
John, I agree. If a recording or performance is devoid of feeling, you know it's not real. I wonder if young people today are making an emotional connection with pop music that is tuned and beat detected to death. And if so, how?
I'm a big fan of clams too. I purposely leave clams in my recordings, it gives the ear something to grab onto as it goes by. I love to hear some little thing that catches my attention in an otherwise faultless track.
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Post by gouge on Jan 6, 2017 0:43:51 GMT -6
I'll only pitch correct something if it bothers me. DP's pitch editor is great for spot fixing something. I've had AutoTune for several revisions, and AutoTune 8 is pretty good if you don't go rad on it. I don't think vocals I mix sound 'tuned.' There's still plenty of rub and nuance in there. But they are. I'm convinced everyone does it, whether you notice it or not. Don, I can't say that I ALWAYS notice it, but what I do DEFINITELY notice is that a lot of "modern" music strikes me as being far more devoid of real feeling than it should be. To me that's a tipoff that it's probably tuned, whether is "sounds tuned" or not. "Pertfection" is bad art. The master rugmakers of Persia always incorporated at least one minute flaw intentionally, because god (or whaqtever deity, force of nature, etc. you might choose) abhors perfection. As the great, immortal Chester Atkins once said "Leave the clams in, it shows you're human!" And Autotune (Melodyne, etc.) doesn't run on my Studer. If it's bad enough to stick out like a sore thumb, retrack the part or punch in. If it isn't, leave it alone. I'm completely onboard with mistakes making it human. growing up in a house full of jazz I was taught to celebrated the mistakes. that and don't forget the key. but that's not what i'm gunning for here. i'm looking for subtle. if I can hear it I don't want it and that's why i'm searching for something better than what I currently have. can't say I know where i'm going to draw the line though. lots of music I listen to is heavily treated with pitch shifters, chorus etc. kurt cobain on nevermind, jello Biafra and the melvins. none of those artists are pop inspired. I like tape too. Up until recently I was tracking through tape when I could. Everything I did that way sounds better for it. must get that deck working again.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 6, 2017 2:47:55 GMT -6
I use Melodyne to fix the odd pitch or two.
If you do use Melodyne only use your ears not your eyes, putting a pitch blob on the exact pitch will often make it actually out of tune with the backing depending of the harmonic structure of the chord at that moment - only tune by ear.
I never use more than 25 cents if a syllable needs more than a nudge I re-take it if possible that way Melodyne is completely invisible.
It's a great tool and can save a singers voice and save an otherwise great feeling performance.
If you're needing to correct more than a handful of syllables in a song then there maybe something else causing the singer to be overall out of tune, like the bass not loud enough of the monitoring isn't suiting them ..... or they just can't sing in tune :-)
Anyway I do think Melodyne is a great tool.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 6, 2017 7:16:43 GMT -6
Bad intonation does not equal feel, and perfect pitch does not equate to no feeling. Bad intonation makes me feel nauseous. There are singers out there who use gradients of pitch for expression, they are in the minority, okay, extreme minority. If you take your duty to a client seriously, as in making them sound as good as possible, anything in your toolbox is not only recommended, it is required. However, how much correction equals an improvement can certainly be a matter of taste. Does anybody else wish that somebody would have helped Robert Plant in the chorus of "All Of My Love"?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 6, 2017 7:31:59 GMT -6
Id say I tune vocals on 85% of the projects that walk through the door. It's either because they know they are off, and don't want to take the time to sing, or they just can't get back into the studio, or because they just plain can't sing. I'm not willing to turn away an entire project's worth of work and $$ because I'm too proud to tune a vocal.
Same way I feel about putting drums on a grid. Would I rather have somebody that can play properly with feel? Of course! But many can't. I'm not going to kick them out of the studio because of that. And it's not new with the computer - people were editing drums on tape...
Also - certain genres call for a tuned sound. Just where music is today.
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Post by svart on Jan 6, 2017 9:19:57 GMT -6
I use melodyne.
it's a love/hate relationship. They do pitch tuning very well..
Their interface SUCKS though. Things are just backwards from normal GUI stuff and I spend a lot more time trying to zero in on places to tune, than actually tuning.
It's also ridiculously slow when switching between saved presets and such.
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Post by mikec on Jan 6, 2017 9:26:55 GMT -6
I just started using Revoice Pro and have been liking it.
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Post by svart on Jan 6, 2017 9:30:32 GMT -6
Id say I tune vocals on 85% of the projects that walk through the door. It's either because they know they are off, and don't want to take the time to sing, or they just can't get back into the studio, or because they just plain can't sing. I'm not willing to turn away an entire project's worth of work and $$ because I'm too proud to tune a vocal. Same way I feel about putting drums on a grid. Would I rather have somebody that can play properly with feel? Of course! But many can't. I'm not going to kick them out of the studio because of that. And it's not new with the computer - people were editing drums on tape... Also - certain genres call for a tuned sound. Just where music is today. Yeah, it's great for folks to talk about getting perfect takes but in practice, that isn't happening for anyone less than a signed artist with real backing (read: money). When you're on take 10 with a singer who's quickly running out of energy/motivation as well as MONEY because you're billing time for every bad take, there isn't much choice but to cut/paste phrases or words into a decent take and tune what you can. Most know perfectly well that they aren't going to be able to achieve their goals, but they try anyway and I respect that. But it always comes down to money/time. You can always tell who is limited by their natural ability and/or physiology, and who is just coasting. Some people are just better singers than others, but it doesn't mean that the ones who aren't as good shouldn't have their music made simply because they lack the ability. They pay me to record them as well as possible, and do what I can because they believe that they have a message, and I actually like helping the underdog.
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Post by donr on Jan 6, 2017 9:34:58 GMT -6
Bad intonation does not equal feel, and perfect pitch does not equate to no feeling. Bad intonation makes me feel nauseous. There are singers out there who use gradients of pitch for expression, they are in the minority, okay, extreme minority. If you take your duty to a client seriously, as in making them sound as good as possible, anything in your toolbox is not only recommended, it is required. However, how much correction equals an improvement can certainly be a matter of taste. Does anybody else wish that somebody would have helped Robert Plant in the chorus of "All Of My Love"? Ha, imagine the whole "All Of My Love" track start to finish in perfect equal temperament, all the guitars (steel included,) vocal in tune, and all the drums and fills beat detected and moved right onto a fixed tempo grid. You'd have today's pop music defined. Now, get off my lawn, you kids!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,943
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Post by ericn on Jan 6, 2017 9:37:41 GMT -6
Auto tune and Melodyne are both pretty good, the problem is there are as many people who want that stupid modulated effect as there are who want an invisible pitch correction tool. Rather than diffeeanciate 2 separate products the both build a single tool that satisfies both markets.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2017 9:40:57 GMT -6
Depends on the genre you're in...no one cares if Adele is a little flat/sharp in places. In a dense pop type mix, I really don't want to hear shit out of tune. If you do it right it sounds fine, but not everyone knows how to do it.
Melodyne
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 6, 2017 10:18:13 GMT -6
Id say I tune vocals on 85% of the projects that walk through the door. It's either because they know they are off, and don't want to take the time to sing, or they just can't get back into the studio, or because they just plain can't sing. I'm not willing to turn away an entire project's worth of work and $$ because I'm too proud to tune a vocal. Same way I feel about putting drums on a grid. Would I rather have somebody that can play properly with feel? Of course! But many can't. I'm not going to kick them out of the studio because of that. And it's not new with the computer - people were editing drums on tape... Also - certain genres call for a tuned sound. Just where music is today. Yeah, it's great for folks to talk about getting perfect takes but in practice, that isn't happening for anyone less than a signed artist with real backing (read: money). When you're on take 10 with a singer who's quickly running out of energy/motivation as well as MONEY because you're billing time for every bad take, there isn't much choice but to cut/paste phrases or words into a decent take and tune what you can. Most know perfectly well that they aren't going to be able to achieve their goals, but they try anyway and I respect that. But it always comes down to money/time. You can always tell who is limited by their natural ability and/or physiology, and who is just coasting. Some people are just better singers than others, but it doesn't mean that the ones who aren't as good shouldn't have their music made simply because they lack the ability. They pay me to record them as well as possible, and do what I can because they believe that they have a message, and I actually like helping the underdog. In the past 2 years I was lucky enough to do 2 records that had zero tuning. The singers were just that good. It's pretty amazing to witness somebody do 3 full takes of a song, and when they are halfway through the 3rd take, realize that the first one is going to be the keeper. Anybody else noticed how hard tuned the pop country music is in the past 4 years or so. I mean, it's done REALLY poorly in my eyes, and makes stuff like the Jason Isbel records stand out even more so as badass written, performed, and produced products. Although he isn't really in that genre.
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 6, 2017 10:43:15 GMT -6
Bad intonation does not equal feel, and perfect pitch does not equate to no feeling. Bad intonation makes me feel nauseous. There are singers out there who use gradients of pitch for expression, they are in the minority, okay, extreme minority. If you take your duty to a client seriously, as in making them sound as good as possible, anything in your toolbox is not only recommended, it is required. However, how much correction equals an improvement can certainly be a matter of taste. Does anybody else wish that somebody would have helped Robert Plant in the chorus of "All Of My Love"? Ha, imagine the whole "All Of My Love" track start to finish in perfect equal temperament, all the guitars (steel included,) vocal in tune, and all the drums and fills beat detected and moved right onto a fixed tempo grid. You'd have today's pop music defined. Now, get off my lawn, you kids! Aw, those kids are mainly still in law of the mighty dinosaurs. But seriously, the first time I heard the chorus of that song I just cringed. The other radio song from that LP sounds like it has a auto tune set to tea PAIN on that line about feeling blue, or whatevah, can't remember the lyric. I may be A little harsh, but I didn't set their very high bar with LZ II, that was their doing.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 10:45:26 GMT -6
Antares whilst not cheap is pretty damn good and easy to use as well (it can be very transparent), I got melodyne as part of Samplitude and whilst it does the job I agree with svart . Personally, I always tune backing vocals.. It's a given, no matter how talented they are the subtle differences don't sound right in modern production.. As for lead vocals, I don't use tuning just out of pride me thinks.. I don't need it, I can stay near enough perfectly in tune but it adds a kind of sheen on vocals and it's so popular now (I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of popular modern releases use it) it can sound a little odd without it. I listen to a lot of 70's / 80's rock and I can tell with absolutely amazing singers like Bon Jovi, Axel Rose, Steve Perry. Whilst they for the most part always sound in tune nobody can sing without any slight fluctuations or variances.. Even if they are super close and awesome, we are after all human. Although can't even remember the last time I've heard a live singer that sounds as good as Steve Perry, dude has some serious pipes. I can tell when listening, so if you want that super glossy modern hi-fi sound then always stick autotune on it even if it's just used as a post effect like a compressor.. It might not do much but it adds a "sound"..
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Post by wiz on Jan 6, 2017 16:41:22 GMT -6
Bad intonation does not equal feel, and perfect pitch does not equate to no feeling. Bad intonation makes me feel nauseous. There are singers out there who use gradients of pitch for expression, they are in the minority, okay, extreme minority. If you take your duty to a client seriously, as in making them sound as good as possible, anything in your toolbox is not only recommended, it is required. However, how much correction equals an improvement can certainly be a matter of taste. Does anybody else wish that somebody would have helped Robert Plant in the chorus of "All Of My Love"? Ha, imagine the whole "All Of My Love" track start to finish in perfect equal temperament, all the guitars (steel included,) vocal in tune, and all the drums and fills beat detected and moved right onto a fixed tempo grid. You'd have today's pop music defined. Now, get off my lawn, you kids! OH.. .All Of My Love..... my favourite Zep Song!!! Even the mention of that song, transports me back ...I am 16.. her name was Sharon..I even remember her phone number... f*ck auto tune...I want to feel like I did again listening to that song... with Sharon. 8) oh and Don? can I have my ball back now please.....? 8) cheers Wiz
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