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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 8, 2017 13:03:33 GMT -6
No matter how many things you fix through editing and tuning, it's always triage which leaves something that someone will say 'should have been fixed'. So very true. I absolutely detest autotune. I bought it and un-iunstalled it. It sits on the shelf, in a box, as I bought the physical version. Instead, I use Waves Soundshifter mono for most every little tuning discrepancy. In my case, as I do a lot of backing vocals for foreign bands, I have learned that I am consistently 12 cents flat. Just by tuning up my own voice tracks, I am at pitch and then the mixing engineer, tracking engineer or producer on the other end can make judgment calls on whether anything needs further adjustment. I have done a half dozen records for a couple of singers who are about 25-34 cents flat. Consistently. So, it works for that too. And it doesn't change the formant or any other part of the sound. What version do you have? Is the license transferable? I am looking to buy Auto Tune 7/8 and Auto Tune efx 3.. Thanks in advance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 13:19:46 GMT -6
It's not a question of finding great singers, it's a matter of developing great singers. Why should a young person put in the effort to learn to be a great singer if they belive that someone can push a button and "fix" their performance? This is the issue. Sometimes your job is also help an artist to grow. That doesn't always mean accommodating things through stuff like this. You can't make anyone do anything, of course. But I'd much rather make the offer: We can autotune and hack this together till we've taxidermy'd a vocal, or I can give you some meager advice, a bounce of the mix with no vocals and you can go home and practice after we do something else (I usually schedule 2 things for days where I'm not sure the singer will be up for it, so as to give us that wiggle room and they don't feel like they wasted their time". Depends on the singer, some have no hope. In that scenario I'll get three to four takes / comp and tune it, some singers have the raw talent but can't seem to nail it in a studio. I do understand how difficult it is to get it right when studio tracking, so I'll put the time in to get a professional take whether we nail it on take 10 or take 50, keep giving advice after every take. Good for your credits, great for their pride and happiness.. In the very rare instance I come across a great singer with studio experience, well of course things go a bit more smoothly.. Even then it can take a while, it's not like it was in the 70's, whether right or wrong products like melodyne make it difficult to compete even as a great natural singer. It's because things like melodyne can do much more than just tune, you can quantize, you can stretch out vocals and do all sorts of elastic modifications, you can even modify vocal expressions. I kept telling them that the more I change bits, the less it's going to sound like you.. Some of that "raw" passion will be lost, but end of the day they want what they want. If they want to compete in modern day production, they might be better off going down that route.. Like everything in music, it's a matter of opinion and who's really to say if I'm right or they are? |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 8, 2017 15:21:37 GMT -6
Depends on the singer, some have no hope. In that scenario I'll get three to four takes / comp and tune it, some singers have the raw talent but can't seem to nail it in a studio. I do understand how difficult it is to get it right when studio tracking, so I'll put the time in to get a professional take whether we nail it on take 10 or take 50, keep giving advice after every take. Good for your credits, great for their pride and happiness.. In the very rare instance I come across a great singer with studio experience, well of course things go a bit more smoothly.. Even then it can take a while, it's not like it was in the 70's, whether right or wrong products like melodyne make it difficult to compete even as a great natural singer. It's because things like melodyne can do much more than just tune, you can quantize, you can stretch out vocals and do all sorts of elastic modifications, you can even modify vocal expressions. I kept telling them that the more I change bits, the less it's going to sound like you.. Some of that "raw" passion will be lost, but end of the day they want what they want. If they want to compete in modern day production, they might be better off going down that route.. Like everything in music, it's a matter of opinion and who's really to say if I'm right or they are? " It's because things like melodyne can do much more than just tune, you can quantize, you can stretch out vocals and do all sorts of elastic modifications, you can even modify vocal expressions."? Yes, there are a near infinite ways to mess up a vocal. I hate quantizing as much as autotune. As far as singers with no hope are concerned, wouldn't it be doing everyone a big favor to just refuse the session? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 15:33:09 GMT -6
" It's because things like melodyne can do much more than just tune, you can quantize, you can stretch out vocals and do all sorts of elastic modifications, you can even modify vocal expressions."? Yes, there are a near infinite ways to mess up a vocal. I hate quantizing as much as autotune. As far as singers with no hope are concerned, wouldn't it be doing everyone a big favor to just refuse the session? You may hate it, but ultimatley it's just a matter of opinion and we all know what opinions are like.. It depends, if you need the money then you take what you can get.. You just don't add it to your credits lists, if you are in a position to pick and choose clientel then sure. There's other reasons too, I've tracked a band as a favour to friends.. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 8, 2017 16:26:27 GMT -6
You may hate it, but ultimatley it's just a matter of opinion and we all know what opinions are like.. But is it "just a matter of opinion", really? 2015 was the first year in which "legacy" recordings outsold new music. I think that tells us somerthing. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 8, 2017 16:41:56 GMT -6
You may hate it, but ultimatley it's just a matter of opinion and we all know what opinions are like.. But is it "just a matter of opinion", really? 2015 was the first year in which "legacy" recordings outsold new music. I think that tells us somerthing. We get it, you're old and don't like new music, TV, or technology. Why are you filling up an Auto-Tune recommendation thread with anti-technology rants? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 16:54:19 GMT -6
You may hate it, but ultimatley it's just a matter of opinion and we all know what opinions are like.. But is it "just a matter of opinion", really? 2015 was the first year in which "legacy" recordings outsold new music. I think that tells us somerthing. That constantly singing about your "boohtay" get's a bit too much after a while? Is it opinion? Lol of course it is, everything in music is subjective that's what makes it so diverse.. There was a trend of 70's style music then a wave of European Dance (auto-tuned through the roof), we had a wave of country music, let's not confuse trends with fact.. It ebbs and flows, generally started off by somebody doing a decent track and followed by a thousand clones of said tracks. Metal / heavy rock hasn't been popular here for a long time, but I try not to read too much into it and do what tickles my fancy. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 8, 2017 16:55:24 GMT -6
Depends on the singer, some have no hope. In that scenario I'll get three to four takes / comp and tune it, some singers have the raw talent but can't seem to nail it in a studio. I do understand how difficult it is to get it right when studio tracking, so I'll put the time in to get a professional take whether we nail it on take 10 or take 50, keep giving advice after every take. Good for your credits, great for their pride and happiness.. In the very rare instance I come across a great singer with studio experience, well of course things go a bit more smoothly.. Even then it can take a while, it's not like it was in the 70's, whether right or wrong products like melodyne make it difficult to compete even as a great natural singer. It's because things like melodyne can do much more than just tune, you can quantize, you can stretch out vocals and do all sorts of elastic modifications, you can even modify vocal expressions. I kept telling them that the more I change bits, the less it's going to sound like you.. Some of that "raw" passion will be lost, but end of the day they want what they want. If they want to compete in modern day production, they might be better off going down that route.. Like everything in music, it's a matter of opinion and who's really to say if I'm right or they are? " It's because things like melodyne can do much more than just tune, you can quantize, you can stretch out vocals and do all sorts of elastic modifications, you can even modify vocal expressions."? Yes, there are a near infinite ways to mess up a vocal. I hate quantizing as much as autotune. As far as singers with no hope are concerned, wouldn't it be doing everyone a big favor to just refuse the session? Being in a situation to refuse work because it's not up to your standards is a great place to be in. I've had projects that were amazing, cut live, great band and singer, major well known dudes. And those sessions went on for 4 months and I loved every min of it. I've also had sessions that were so bad I've wanted to stab my ears out with spoons and hated waking up in the morning knowing I was going to have to deal with terrible music and performances. At the end of the day, my rate is my rate - and it's what I need to take home in order to make ends meet, budget my life, make payments, and put a little away for new gear purchases. Using or not using autotune or melodyne isnt MY choice. If it has to happen, I do it. Client is happy, I walk away and cash a check, and put food on the table. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 8, 2017 17:06:57 GMT -6
Bad intonation does not equal feel, and perfect pitch does not equate to no feeling. Bad intonation makes me feel nauseous. There are singers out there who use gradients of pitch for expression, they are in the minority, okay, extreme minority. If you take your duty to a client seriously, as in making them sound as good as possible, anything in your toolbox is not only recommended, it is required. However, how much correction equals an improvement can certainly be a matter of taste. Does anybody else wish that somebody would have helped Robert Plant in the chorus of "All Of My Love"? I dunno. I hear a lot of commercially produced music where the tuning is extremely unobvious that makes me say "Too bad they tuned all the life out of it. It could have been a great song." Now it could be possible that the singer just has a really uninteresting style and delivery, but I find it hard to believe that. And no, I'm really glad that nobody "helped" Robert Plant in "Whole Lotta Love". REALLY glad. "Help" like that is one of the major problems with a lot of today's records. That's just ridiculous. And no more "tuning sucks" responses. It's off topic and generally curmudgeonly |
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Post by Ward on Jan 8, 2017 18:19:05 GMT -6
Damn kids!! Stay off my lawn! (sorry, Johnkenn, I was going to post that anyhow... nothing but love, brother!!) |
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Post by ericn on Jan 8, 2017 19:38:08 GMT -6
I dunno. I hear a lot of commercially produced music where the tuning is extremely unobvious that makes me say "Too bad they tuned all the life out of it. It could have been a great song." Now it could be possible that the singer just has a really uninteresting style and delivery, but I find it hard to believe that. And no, I'm really glad that nobody "helped" Robert Plant in "Whole Lotta Love". REALLY glad. "Help" like that is one of the major problems with a lot of today's records. That's just ridiculous. And no more "tuning sucks" responses. It's off topic and generally curmudgeonly Funny how people forget that we used Eventide's For years before Autotune, Granted it was a hell of a lot more work! I also heard stories of VSO's being used on tape machines before that! Let's not forget the "ghost singers" of the film musicals ! It ain't new and if you haven't " Helped" you probably haven't been paid either. It's just easier ! Now get off my Fing lawn I'm thinking I need an H3000! Good day😜 |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 8, 2017 20:50:56 GMT -6
Out-A-Tuna was what put ProTools in every big music studio replacing the Eventide. You folks missed the Eltro which we had but I never had to wrangle.
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Post by lcr on Jan 8, 2017 21:48:06 GMT -6
Cookie Monster vocals. That is so precise. I like many styles of music, however the Cookie Monster vocals I just can't listen to. Many people like it, I don't think it's lack of melody, it's because to me it sounds like it really hurts and is a bummer. That's just me, enjoy your cookie monster vocals.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 23:45:04 GMT -6
That's just ridiculous. And no more "tuning sucks" responses. It's off topic and generally curmudgeonly Funny how people forget that we used Eventide's For years before Autotune, Granted it was a hell of a lot more work! I also heard stories of VSO's being used on tape machines before that! Let's not forget the "ghost singers" of the film musicals ! It ain't new and if you haven't " Helped" you probably haven't been paid either. It's just easier ! Now get off my Fing lawn I'm thinking I need an H3000! Good day😜 Aha, I was wondering about what used to happen ... H3000 plug-in available now for $350, there are other options such as Izotope Nectar, and Reaper has a built in autotuner |
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Post by donr on Jan 9, 2017 0:16:09 GMT -6
Here's a question more or less back on topic. Having no experience with Melodyne, can you get the T-Pain effect with it? How easy?
If you're looking for the Hip Hop-"R-n-B"-Jamaican Dancehall style hard tuning, is there an alternative to Antares Autotune?
I wouldn't be surprised if Antares was mortified at first that the "Cher" effect was the prime usage of their software, except for the sales figures, which must have delighted them. I spent some time on the ground in a rental car this weekend and checked out some Jamaican dancehall cuts where the hard tuning was baked into the arrangement and the song wouldn't have much vibe without it.
Wondering if there are alternatives to or improvements on Autotune if that's what you're looking to do.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 9, 2017 1:28:07 GMT -6
But is it "just a matter of opinion", really? 2015 was the first year in which "legacy" recordings outsold new music. I think that tells us somerthing. We get it, you're old and don't like new music, TV, or technology. Why are you filling up an Auto-Tune recommendation thread with anti-technology rants? I'm not really "anti-technology" at all (It's the USE, not the tool), or against (good) new music, but I agreed with JohnKenn that this thread isn't the place for the discussion. Perhaps a different one? It's a complex subject and many people are all to quick to jump to simplistic conclusions about the viewpoints of others. I'll cop to being somewhat curmudgeonly and perhaps a bit iconoclastic in an odd, somewhat ass-backwards way. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 9, 2017 17:13:51 GMT -6
Melodyne can do hard tuning
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