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Post by vancalot on Aug 22, 2016 22:12:38 GMT -6
Cool to have you here @vancealot. I convinced my wife to watch the full video yesterday afternoon, and even she seemed interested enough. That's saying a lot. How hard were you cracking the Distressor in tracking? How much other compression was slathered on in tracking? Were the guitars getting some sauce or was the distortion coming out of the amp locking them in place? How about when you mentioned EQing the guitars opposite, was that something like using a 560 on each and alternating the boosts/cuts for each guitar? I was smashing the Distressor but it's in parallel, so there's maybe 30% folded back to the snare buss.. The Transient Designer is set to a low attack long release.. very stretched out.. and maybe 20% folded back.. no other compression other than that and the Parallels when mixing. The GTRS were just done on the desk.. in mono..
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 23, 2016 8:22:01 GMT -6
I freaking love the BX20 plug... vancalot have some of the UAD FX replaced for you or just supplemented? I also think the UAD 1176s can really get that input suck sound of ABI...moreso than any other 1176 plugs I've tried. Can you tell us a little more about your vocal tracking? Was it you that was using 3 different tracks with different comps and then blending?
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Post by dandeurloo on Aug 23, 2016 10:58:38 GMT -6
Guys, we have a lot to learn from Vance! His mixes are things I reference all the time. Most of the time I reference them for vibe and inspiration. His work has that in spades.
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Post by bradd on Aug 23, 2016 12:34:06 GMT -6
I have used parallel compression in mixing, but never in tracking. What do you use for splitting the signal? Thanks for helping out us mere mortals.
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Post by schmalzy on Aug 23, 2016 13:02:09 GMT -6
<abbr class="time" data-timestamp="1471977246000" title="Aug 23, 2016 13:34:06 GMT -5">Aug 23, 2016 13:34:06 GMT -5</abbr> bradd said: I have used parallel compression in mixing, but never in tracking. What do you use for splitting the signal? Thanks for helping out us mere mortals. I don't know how he's doing it but I do it a couple different ways and those might give you some ideas: I can get a parallel signal by multing off a half-normalled connection on a patchbay. A patchbay has helped my workflow SIGNIFICANTLY. I can also get a parallel signal by sending the signal to my console and routing the signal out through an aux or a group that nothing else is using. I like using parallel compression on vocals and bass during tracking - I like getting a clean signal but I like the player to monitor the possibly-over-compressed version. I record that over-compressed version anyway just because I can use it to get myself closer to a finished sound earlier (I end up using a lot of parallel compression in the mix on those sources).
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Post by vancalot on Aug 23, 2016 18:37:26 GMT -6
I have used parallel compression in mixing, but never in tracking. What do you use for splitting the signal? Thanks for helping out us mere mortals. Console. I send the input to multiple busses, then to gear and then return to the console and assign to the correct input. i.e. I use Buss 4 for snare.. so I send the Top and Bottom to 4 and 25-26.. 25 is the distressor and 26 the Transient D.. then I return them into line inputs and assign them to 4.
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Post by bradd on Aug 23, 2016 19:00:05 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I'm going to give that a try.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 26, 2016 8:12:43 GMT -6
I have used parallel compression in mixing, but never in tracking. What do you use for splitting the signal? Thanks for helping out us mere mortals. Console. I send the input to multiple busses, then to gear and then return to the console and assign to the correct input. i.e. I use Buss 4 for snare.. so I send the Top and Bottom to 4 and 25-26.. 25 is the distressor and 26 the Transient D.. then I return them into line inputs and assign them to 4. Thinking about how to do this without a console? There are 3-way splitters, but I don't know of a 4-way splitter. Can you daisy chain splitters? Then, if you can split the input four ways, how do you then combine them into the DAW? Regardless, every time I see this and how easily it is done with a desk it makes me want one more.
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Post by svart on Aug 26, 2016 8:33:22 GMT -6
Console. I send the input to multiple busses, then to gear and then return to the console and assign to the correct input. i.e. I use Buss 4 for snare.. so I send the Top and Bottom to 4 and 25-26.. 25 is the distressor and 26 the Transient D.. then I return them into line inputs and assign them to 4. Thinking about how to do this without a console? There are 3-way splitters, but I don't know of a 4-way splitter. Can you daisy chain splitters? Then, if you can split the input four ways, how do you then combine them into the DAW? Regardless, every time I see this and how easily it is done with a desk it makes me want one more. You can do it multiple ways, but each has it's drawback.. You could just straight split, without regard to impedance matching.. You might get usable signals, or you might get a mess.. You could make resistive splitters, which will impedance match with multiple inputs better, but you're going to lose a lot of signal to each input doing so. You could do a buffered or passive splitter which is like the resistive splitter, but has buffering on the input and the outputs to make up for the resistive losses.. This is essentially the opposite of a passive summing mixer.
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Post by henge on Aug 26, 2016 8:34:02 GMT -6
Lets say your snare mics are coming in to your DAW on inputs 1 and 2. Wouldn't you just assign separate channels for top and bottom, and also assign inputs 1 and 2 to a couple of channels with whatever outboard ( distressors eg.) you want? This can be done in Reaper, not sure about other DAWs but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done... Or feed your 'hardware' channels from the top and bottom snare channels...
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Post by swurveman on Aug 26, 2016 11:54:02 GMT -6
Lets say your snare mics are coming in to your DAW on inputs 1 and 2. Wouldn't you just assign separate channels for top and bottom, and also assign inputs 1 and 2 to a couple of channels with whatever outboard ( distressors eg.) you want? This can be done in Reaper, not sure about other DAWs but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done... Or feed your 'hardware' channels from the top and bottom snare channels... I'm talking about monitoring the four snares, and a full band in real time, which I believe Vance is doing. I can't do what you suggested in real time Cubase or Pro Tools , monitoring the four snare channels and the rest of the drum kit and the room mics and the rest of the band without latency. All this can be done at mix, but without a console I don't know how you can do it in real time.
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Post by svart on Aug 26, 2016 12:34:51 GMT -6
Lets say your snare mics are coming in to your DAW on inputs 1 and 2. Wouldn't you just assign separate channels for top and bottom, and also assign inputs 1 and 2 to a couple of channels with whatever outboard ( distressors eg.) you want? This can be done in Reaper, not sure about other DAWs but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done... Or feed your 'hardware' channels from the top and bottom snare channels... I'm talking about monitoring the four snares, and a full band in real time, which I believe Vance is doing. I can't do what you suggested in real time Cubase or Pro Tools , monitoring the four snare channels and the rest of the drum kit and the room mics and the rest of the band without latency. All this can be done at mix, but without a console I don't know how you can do it in real time. In the DAW can you assign the same input to a number of different tracks? I.E., sending interface input 1 to tracks 1,2 but then only arming the record on track 1, while monitoring track 2 with plugins? I don't know much about cubase or protools.. I'm also a Reaper man..
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2016 14:18:27 GMT -6
Console. I send the input to multiple busses, then to gear and then return to the console and assign to the correct input. i.e. I use Buss 4 for snare.. so I send the Top and Bottom to 4 and 25-26.. 25 is the distressor and 26 the Transient D.. then I return them into line inputs and assign them to 4. Thinking about how to do this without a console? There are 3-way splitters, but I don't know of a 4-way splitter. Can you daisy chain splitters? Then, if you can split the input four ways, how do you then combine them into the DAW? Regardless, every time I see this and how easily it is done with a desk it makes me want one more. Almost every transformer splitter is going to be designed for microphone not line, as Svart said in most cases a simple " Y " split will work. Most equipment is designed with this in mind, in fact that's what the mults in a patchbay do !
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Post by swurveman on Aug 26, 2016 15:05:57 GMT -6
Thinking about how to do this without a console? There are 3-way splitters, but I don't know of a 4-way splitter. Can you daisy chain splitters? Then, if you can split the input four ways, how do you then combine them into the DAW? Regardless, every time I see this and how easily it is done with a desk it makes me want one more. Almost every transformer splitter is going to be designed for microphone not line, as Svart said in most cases a simple " Y " split will work. Most equipment is designed with this in mind, in fact that's what the mults in a patchbay do ! Thanks for your reply ericn. I don't fully understand consoles, but for the DAW world this is what it ultimately would need to see, correct? 1. Unprocessed top snare input 2. Unprocessed Bottom snare input 3. top snare distressor input 4. bottom snare distressor input 5. top snare transient designer input 6. bottom snare transient designer You'd need two Distresors and two Transient Designers, wouldn't you? And if so, wouldn't it be easier to just do it on a patchbay?
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Post by Guitar on Aug 26, 2016 15:14:36 GMT -6
From my understanding a lot of those mics are bussed together so he only needs one Distressor and one Transient Designer per drum. I also don't understand consoles all that well from never having owned a big one.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2016 15:58:31 GMT -6
Almost every transformer splitter is going to be designed for microphone not line, as Svart said in most cases a simple " Y " split will work. Most equipment is designed with this in mind, in fact that's what the mults in a patchbay do ! Thanks for your reply ericn. I don't fully understand consoles, but for the DAW world this is what it ultimately would need to see, correct? 1. Unprocessed top snare input 2. Unprocessed Bottom snare input 3. top snare distressor input 4. bottom snare distressor input 5. top snare transient designer input 6. bottom snare transient designer You'd need two Distresors and two Transient Designers, wouldn't you? And if so, wouldn't it be easier to just do it on a patchbay? A lot of what I took away from this is something I already knew, a console or a full featured small mixer brings so many problem solving and routing possibilities to the party that everybody should have one even if sum in the box!
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Post by Guitar on Aug 26, 2016 16:00:17 GMT -6
A lot of what I took away from this is something I already knew, a console or a full featured small mixer brings so many problem solving and routing possibilities to the party that everybody should have one even if sum in the box! Completely agree, even the small ones are super useful.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 26, 2016 16:47:31 GMT -6
Thanks for your reply ericn. I don't fully understand consoles, but for the DAW world this is what it ultimately would need to see, correct? 1. Unprocessed top snare input 2. Unprocessed Bottom snare input 3. top snare distressor input 4. bottom snare distressor input 5. top snare transient designer input 6. bottom snare transient designer You'd need two Distresors and two Transient Designers, wouldn't you? And if so, wouldn't it be easier to just do it on a patchbay? A lot of what I took away from this is something I already knew, a console or a full featured small mixer brings so many problem solving and routing possibilities to the party that everybody should have one even if sum in the box! Anybody familiar with the Speck Xtramix? 20 stereo line inputs 8 effects sends 8 effect returns 8 tape returns and/or subgroup feeds to go to the DAW inputs There's one on Ebay for $1,700.00
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2016 17:00:13 GMT -6
A lot of what I took away from this is something I already knew, a console or a full featured small mixer brings so many problem solving and routing possibilities to the party that everybody should have one even if sum in the box! Anybody familiar with the Speck Xtramix? 20 stereo line inputs 8 effects sends 8 effect returns 8 tape returns and/or subgroup feeds to go to the DAW inputs There's one on Ebay for $1,700.00 Great sounding very clean but the routing isn't as straightforward like a Mackie 1604 or a Little sound raft delta. Xtramix always seamed more of a summing piece.
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 26, 2016 17:10:21 GMT -6
Yeah you'd get an X32 for that money!
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Post by henge on Aug 26, 2016 19:56:09 GMT -6
Lets say your snare mics are coming in to your DAW on inputs 1 and 2. Wouldn't you just assign separate channels for top and bottom, and also assign inputs 1 and 2 to a couple of channels with whatever outboard ( distressors eg.) you want? This can be done in Reaper, not sure about other DAWs but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done... Or feed your 'hardware' channels from the top and bottom snare channels... I'm talking about monitoring the four snares, and a full band in real time, which I believe Vance is doing. I can't do what you suggested in real time Cubase or Pro Tools , monitoring the four snare channels and the rest of the drum kit and the room mics and the rest of the band without latency. All this can be done at mix, but without a console I don't know how you can do it in real time. Got it. Nope, can't be done without latency
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Post by henge on Aug 26, 2016 19:58:03 GMT -6
Thinking about how to do this without a console? There are 3-way splitters, but I don't know of a 4-way splitter. Can you daisy chain splitters? Then, if you can split the input four ways, how do you then combine them into the DAW? Regardless, every time I see this and how easily it is done with a desk it makes me want one more. Almost every transformer splitter is going to be designed for microphone not line, as Svart said in most cases a simple " Y " split will work. Most equipment is designed with this in mind, in fact that's what the mults in a patchbay do ! Hmm I'll try to see if I can do that tomorrow
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Post by swurveman on Aug 26, 2016 20:20:33 GMT -6
Anybody familiar with the Speck Xtramix? 20 stereo line inputs 8 effects sends 8 effect returns 8 tape returns and/or subgroup feeds to go to the DAW inputs There's one on Ebay for $1,700.00 Great sounding very clean but the routing isn't as straightforward like a Mackie 1604 or a Little sound raft delta. Xtramix always seamed more of a summing piece. I own a 1604 VLZ. I've never considered it for what we've been talking about because the line inputs share circuitry with the mic preamp.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2016 20:25:54 GMT -6
Great sounding very clean but the routing isn't as straightforward like a Mackie 1604 or a Little sound raft delta. Xtramix always seamed more of a summing piece. I own a 1604 VLZ. I've never considered it for what we've been talking about because the line inputs share circuitry with the mic preamp. I have never had an actual issue with a mixer because of the fact that it used the same circuit for both line and mic. Think of it as a line stGe with plenty of gain! In fact I prefer having adjustable gain for trimming of line inputs!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Aug 26, 2016 22:34:41 GMT -6
I'm talking about monitoring the four snares, and a full band in real time, which I believe Vance is doing. I can't do what you suggested in real time Cubase or Pro Tools , monitoring the four snare channels and the rest of the drum kit and the room mics and the rest of the band without latency. All this can be done at mix, but without a console I don't know how you can do it in real time. Got it. Nope, can't be done without latency Avid hardware/ HDX can defintely do this, in fact it's still one of the few selling points for that type of system. Software based solution, maybe this can help you ( I hope so) On my Apollo, I would have the bands inputs coming into console app And use it for gain staging low latency monitoring (w/ or w/o plugs) muting corresponding pro tools tracks. Then setup Tracks in PT to accept the send output ( aux return )(aux 1/2) from Console app. On the two auxes in console app I can have distressor style, and on the other aux I can have a transient designer and use the aux send to perform parallels, which will then print the corresponding PT track. So input 5 in snare top and input 6 is snare bottom, use the aux sends on each to track to Aux 1 ( distressor ) & Aux 2 ( TD). Setup 4 mono tracks in PT labeled then set pt inputs accordingly.( input 5 ST, input 6 SB, aux 1 Dist, aux 2 TD ) Adjust your send levels to taste for required parallel smashing and record To save additional outputs a hear back system can be incorporated for headphone mixes. I can route any input to any output as well. Console app has what they call virtual I/o, which can send tracks from PT into console app for low latency plugs recording or monitoring! Most interfaces come with console like apps, so maybe you can apply My post to your setup.
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