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Post by jazznoise on Aug 22, 2016 6:04:38 GMT -6
Great to see his working method. Amazing how low the bleed is with such an amount of compression being used. I guess his overheads point down so the amps sitting right under are getting nulled, and the low volume keeps the reflections down. However the vocal sound was particularly oversquashed, and the close mic drum bus thing isn't a sound I'm really into either. His delay bus was a cool trick, though.
Guitar tones were cool. I need something for that velcro fuzz sound.
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Post by jsteiger on Aug 22, 2016 11:11:46 GMT -6
Johnkenn I think these are the dudes that showed up at the Sputnik NAMM party to see Vance right before we split?
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Post by vancalot on Aug 22, 2016 16:29:57 GMT -6
Well, I'm not lying. There's a couple things to say here.. The video is an hour and 40 minutes long.. edited to 40 so some explanations got left out. I NEVER said I didn't compress the snare.. I said I didn't when I mixed. The Distressors where on those channels (in the video) because I did the video after mixing another song. But the inserts were not engaged. There's 2 comps on the snare in parallel as I tracked, A Distressor and a Transient designer. But that's it. Just bounced around a little. Seems really cool. He's totally full of it though, those distressors on kick and snare are crushing. The guitar tones are wild. Maybe I'll have to fire up my shitty Valve Jr. at my next session. My Mosrite Fuzzrite germanium copy pedal gets some velcro tones like that. DAM made one for a while. The snare does sound compressed to me. I'm with svart, he's either lying or confused about the past. Or using his parallel chains. Also nothing like a good Champ or similar small combo amp in the studio. The mastered version of this track sounds really good. I'm not a fan of the music, but the production is so good, that I kind of like it. Some of the techniques that stood out to me were when he says, "I EQ'd the guitars to sound mono, but then panned them into their own space" that's a great concept to me, and maybe one I haven't tried. He also seems to compress pretty hard. And is not afraid to use guitar pedals, which I am a little shy about still. I know Randge likes pedals too. The no reverb thing also stands out, and I think that's one of his big signatures on his records sounding "in your face" by not giving all this roomy ambience. I also really like the way he treated the drums with the tracking setup, and the way he did the whole band in a room with some ad hoc isolation. I'm no Vance Powell but I did something vaguely similar to that years ago that I'm still pretty proud of, and would like to try again. Also to echo svart the band I recorded back then was so sloppy it took hours of takes and hours of editing to get anywhere near a semblance of a passable take, let alone a "good" take. Not for the faint of heart or loose of hand band.
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Post by wiz on Aug 22, 2016 16:34:34 GMT -6
Well, I'm not lying. There's a couple things to say here.. The video is an hour and 40 minutes long.. edited to 40 so some explanations got left out. I NEVER said I didn't compress the snare.. I said I didn't when I mixed. The Distressors where on those channels (in the video) because I did the video after mixing another song. But the inserts were not engaged. There's 2 comps on the snare in parallel as I tracked, A Distressor and a Transient designer. But that's it. My Mosrite Fuzzrite germanium copy pedal gets some velcro tones like that. DAM made one for a while. The snare does sound compressed to me. I'm with svart, he's either lying or confused about the past. Or using his parallel chains. Also nothing like a good Champ or similar small combo amp in the studio. The mastered version of this track sounds really good. I'm not a fan of the music, but the production is so good, that I kind of like it. Some of the techniques that stood out to me were when he says, "I EQ'd the guitars to sound mono, but then panned them into their own space" that's a great concept to me, and maybe one I haven't tried. He also seems to compress pretty hard. And is not afraid to use guitar pedals, which I am a little shy about still. I know Randge likes pedals too. The no reverb thing also stands out, and I think that's one of his big signatures on his records sounding "in your face" by not giving all this roomy ambience. I also really like the way he treated the drums with the tracking setup, and the way he did the whole band in a room with some ad hoc isolation. I'm no Vance Powell but I did something vaguely similar to that years ago that I'm still pretty proud of, and would like to try again. Also to echo svart the band I recorded back then was so sloppy it took hours of takes and hours of editing to get anywhere near a semblance of a passable take, let alone a "good" take. Not for the faint of heart or loose of hand band. Welcome Vance.... great video. if you have the time... The bleed we hear in the drum mics... Is that as recorded? Could you talk a little about reducing bleed when tracking the whole rhythm section like that...or was it just placements? cheers Wiz
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Post by vancalot on Aug 22, 2016 16:39:49 GMT -6
Well, I'm not lying. There's a couple things to say here.. The video is an hour and 40 minutes long.. edited to 40 so some explanations got left out. I NEVER said I didn't compress the snare.. I said I didn't when I mixed. The Distressors where on those channels (in the video) because I did the video after mixing another song. But the inserts were not engaged. There's 2 comps on the snare in parallel as I tracked, A Distressor and a Transient designer. But that's it. Welcome Vance.... great video. if you have the time... The bleed we hear in the drum mics... Is that as recorded? Could you talk a little about reducing bleed when tracking the whole rhythm section like that...or was it just placements? cheers Wiz That is the bleed as recorded.. I have a couple pics of the tracking setup.. I'll try and get them up here soon.
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Post by vancalot on Aug 22, 2016 16:40:56 GMT -6
Johnkenn I think these are the dudes that showed up at the Sputnik NAMM party to see Vance right before we split? These are the guys Jeff.. and that is the room it was recorded in.. just another session for the video.
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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 22, 2016 16:43:27 GMT -6
Thanks from Grove OK great video
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Post by vancalot on Aug 22, 2016 16:45:14 GMT -6
Thanks from Grove OK great video I used to live there on the south side of Sailboat bridge. Worked at Andy Eck Music..
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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 22, 2016 16:49:33 GMT -6
i read that , if your ever back I'll buy dinner , and a boat ride lol
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Post by Ward on Aug 22, 2016 16:53:27 GMT -6
Welcome vancalot. I really enjoyed your video. Nice hybrid mixing approach!
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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 22, 2016 17:33:14 GMT -6
A little off subject but noticed the Coil Audio pre's in the video, do you have a favorite use for those ? Were they used tracking any instruments in the video ? Thanks
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 22, 2016 17:46:15 GMT -6
Hey Vance! Welcome to the board.
So am I correct in my surmising that the OH's are point down at where the amps are? I'd be very intrigued to know, as I haven't had a session in years that wasn't the band all in the one room. Though I'm not brave enough for cutting the vocals on the floor like that, I rely too heavily on room mics to salvage that after if there's an issue.
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Post by joseph on Aug 22, 2016 18:01:54 GMT -6
Thanks for the video, and KISS approach to mixing.
Speaking for myself, even though this is high gain QOTSAish rock, this explanation of tracking and flexible parallel techniques is helpful toward any genre.
To summarize some points
1) Parallel (1176) of drum shells in mono. I see a lot of experienced rock mixers doing this or something similar as it thickens and solidifies center image. I think this often works well, like with jazz or country brush work. Fact is we never hear drum shells in real life without inverse square law kicking in, so is it really more natural to hear a close miked drum as if our ears were simultaneously above the kit and right up against skins?
2) Hard panned guitars, each player given consistent space. Useful philosophy for any genre.
3) Use of delays instead of reverbs, keeps things up front.
4) Parallel buses each adding a little bit of consistency and flavor to whole. In this case 33609, 1db of gain added on meter with around 4-6db compression, on drums (with shells and overheads, rarely rooms), parallel fatso smash buses for shells and vocals, and parallel 33609 instrument bus same 1db, 4-6 comp deal, GML vocal bus, same deal, plus the parallel 176 on bass. 2bus 2500. Typically distressors and 550as on kick and snare.
5) Printing of effects and committing to proven or cool sounds in tracking earlier rather than fusing later, including compressor set ups, stacking and printing. Not being stuck in overdub hell.
6) Recording synths through amps just sounds and blends better.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 22, 2016 18:03:10 GMT -6
Cool to have you here @vancealot. I convinced my wife to watch the full video yesterday afternoon, and even she seemed interested enough. That's saying a lot.
How hard were you cracking the Distressor in tracking? How much other compression was slathered on in tracking? Were the guitars getting some sauce or was the distortion coming out of the amp locking them in place? How about when you mentioned EQing the guitars opposite, was that something like using a 560 on each and alternating the boosts/cuts for each guitar?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,978
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Post by ericn on Aug 22, 2016 18:23:50 GMT -6
i read that , if your ever back I'll buy dinner , and a boat ride lol I'll road trip it and split the bill on that one!
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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 22, 2016 18:27:01 GMT -6
i read that , if your ever back I'll buy dinner , and a boat ride lol I'll road trip it and split the bill on that one! Your invited anytime
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Post by Guitar on Aug 22, 2016 18:37:19 GMT -6
Well, I'm not lying. There's a couple things to say here.. The video is an hour and 40 minutes long.. edited to 40 so some explanations got left out. I NEVER said I didn't compress the snare.. I said I didn't when I mixed. The Distressors where on those channels (in the video) because I did the video after mixing another song. But the inserts were not engaged. There's 2 comps on the snare in parallel as I tracked, A Distressor and a Transient designer. But that's it. Hi Vance! thanks for the correction. You give away so much detailed information it's really special to have someone with your level of success pointing us in the right direction. I wish I had time to do a test mix using all of your tips and tricks, just to see how close I could get. I am a big fan of your work with Jack White.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 22, 2016 18:54:15 GMT -6
Thanks for stopping by, vancalot! Awesome stuff!
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Post by stratboy on Aug 22, 2016 19:03:30 GMT -6
Thanks for stopping by, vancalot! Awesome stuff! Yep. I learned a lot! Thank you, Vance, for the clarifications.
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Post by spock on Aug 22, 2016 19:19:04 GMT -6
vancalot is tha dude... Sputnik is full of such great vibe, his aesthetic is excellent.
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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 22, 2016 19:25:29 GMT -6
Vance was behind the board on this , always thought it had a cool vibe pretty straight forward .
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Post by wiz on Aug 22, 2016 19:57:51 GMT -6
Vance was behind the board on this , always thought it had a cool vibe pretty straight forward . damn thats cool.. Randge is that the lady singing who was at the station inn that night we were there? cheers Wiz
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Post by Randge on Aug 22, 2016 20:06:06 GMT -6
Vance was behind the board on this , always thought it had a cool vibe pretty straight forward . damn thats cool.. Randge is that the lady singing who was at the station inn that night we were there? cheers Wiz Nope, I think you are thinking of Val Story, who is an amazing talent in this town.
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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 22, 2016 20:08:28 GMT -6
That's Ashley Monroe in the video
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Post by Randge on Aug 22, 2016 20:17:49 GMT -6
That's Ashley Monroe in the video I meant to say that but got distracted here.
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