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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 16:01:57 GMT -6
Need to listen again but I don't know if I'm hearing the grand revelation both of you two are.
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Post by sozocaps on May 4, 2016 16:06:14 GMT -6
Need to listen again but I don't know if I'm hearing the grand revelation both of you two are. Listen the the K sounds like in Black Hair and the shouldn't care line. just as clear but not as hard |
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 4, 2016 16:14:30 GMT -6
First and last tracks are good to me. They seem a little distorted by loudness, so I'm trying to listen through. The Burl/Burl and the Apollo-Burl-VP28 tracks are way more three dimensional. The first track, ( Burl/Burl) is more three dimensional then the last track, (Apollo/Burl/VP28), but the last track has a little more clarity and got my blood pumping. If I had to pick one today, the last track, with the VP28's.
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Post by sozocaps on May 4, 2016 17:14:46 GMT -6
First and last tracks are good to me. They seem a little distorted by loudness, so I'm trying to listen through. The Burl/Burl and the Apollo-Burl-VP28 tracks are way more three dimensional. The first track, ( Burl/Burl) is more three dimensional then the last track, (Apollo/Burl/VP28), but the last track has a little more clarity and got my blood pumping. If I had to pick one today, the last track, with the VP28's. Agree most 3D is this APOLLO - Burl CLK VP28s |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 17:38:56 GMT -6
Hmmm. I'll have to listen again. I was kinda burnt out by the time I got done lol.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 4, 2016 18:09:40 GMT -6
Ya either of the last two
didn't mean to confuse the burl issue and I think you are better describing what I meant . The b2 is essentially a 2192 mkii and I have read that some feel that you can overdrive its converters to get some analog like effect ? Maybe cat5 will chime in on this ?
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Post by kcatthedog on May 4, 2016 18:10:25 GMT -6
would be VERY interested in hearing this mix through the silver bullet now  |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 18:13:54 GMT -6
I just think the idea of over driving the transformer to introduce distortion (yes, distortion) in the final mix is just kinda odd. We're really talking about harmonics...which can be cool. I actually think the reason why they didn't put the input level before transformer is that the point isn't really to drive anything, more to kiss them and impart the punch and sheen.
BTW - like I said above, these files got smushed in the process...so ignore them being too hot.
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Post by Quint on May 4, 2016 18:30:53 GMT -6
I think this thread says a lot about how far conversion has come in the last few years and also speaks volumes about how important distortion/harmonics are to achieving a finished sound (if you want that kind of sound). My point being, if you have pretty decent (or better) multichannel converters made in the last few years, a really nice stereo ad/da (for overdubbing, clocking and mixdown) and some nice preamps like the VP28s to track with and add some juice at mixdown, you should consider yourself to be setup pretty damn well. Couple that with the quality of plugins these days and there's not a whole lot left to worry about. Everything else is just bonus.
It's a great time to be recording music. Well, at least on the gear side of things anyway....
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Post by Randge on May 4, 2016 18:31:33 GMT -6
SO! Here they are level matched. I encourage you all to go get the free ABX app in the App Store. I tried pretty hard 4 separate times to identify the files. I averaged 45% success identifying the correct files. LEVELMATCHED (they are not necessarily in the same order) https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-a-norm%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-normalizedhttps%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-b-norm%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-normalizedA is more full and less cloudy. |
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Post by wiz on May 4, 2016 18:52:11 GMT -6
SO! Here they are level matched. I encourage you all to go get the free ABX app in the App Store. I tried pretty hard 4 separate times to identify the files. I averaged 45% success identifying the correct files. LEVELMATCHED (they are not necessarily in the same order) https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-a-norm%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-normalizedhttps%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-b-norm%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-normalizedA is more full and less cloudy. I am on board with this... (see I don't always like B... 8P ) cheers Wiz |
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Post by porkyman on May 5, 2016 19:17:00 GMT -6
I just think the idea of over driving the transformer to introduce distortion (yes, distortion) in the final mix is just kinda odd. We're really talking about harmonics...which can be cool. I actually think the reason why they didn't put the input level before transformer is that the point isn't really to drive anything, more to kiss them and impart the punch and sheen. BTW - like I said above, these files got smushed in the process...so ignore them being too hot. i think the point is to be able to hit them hard like tape without clipping the converters. the goal being compression really via "distortion." thats where the "magic" happens. i dont believe the converter stage is even that great. i think they use the same chip as the old digi boxes. you should try printing one slammed and see if you can pick it out of the line up. p.s. lets talk about that tom. i want it. what? Where? How? |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 5, 2016 19:50:18 GMT -6
Too late The tom is in the Superior Drummer NY 3 bundle |
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Post by mjheck on May 5, 2016 21:30:53 GMT -6
Having done this dance with my BLA Apollo and 2192,
I found the challenge to be - IF I could decide which one I preferred,
Did I have the ability to massage the other to match it?
Obviously, that requires you to pick one first, but once you do,
It would be productive to sit down with fresh ears and see if you can get there via a means other than the specific component.
For what it's worth, I liked B on the first pair, but am not in an environment to comment on today's postings.
Echoing others, clearly hair splitting as the heavy lifting is already done through quality work
MJH
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Post by Johnkenn on May 5, 2016 22:11:32 GMT -6
Listened again in the car...Really felt like the VP28s added a heft...I liked the cymbals better when they were clocked by the Burl, so I think maybe adding a clock might be the way to go...but honestly, I'm gonna see how things go with just the Apollo for a while. I feel ok pocketing the $2000 for the Burl.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 6, 2016 6:31:59 GMT -6
If somebody offering 2 grand usd for the burl take it and run |
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Post by mikec on May 6, 2016 6:52:30 GMT -6
Hey JK, any idea what clock you might be thinking about for your Apollo and D-Box setup? I would be interested to hear what you come up with.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 6, 2016 8:51:28 GMT -6
Probably the Micro Clock III...but I'm gonna stay with just the Apollo right now.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 7, 2016 13:01:44 GMT -6
Sold my Burl for $2k so if I decided I couldn't live without the Burl, I see they're going for like $1600-$1800 right now. |
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Post by ragan on May 7, 2016 14:11:03 GMT -6
Sold my Burl for $2k so if I decided I couldn't live without the Burl, I see they're going for like $1600-$1800 right now. Yeah you got a good price. They were selling for that all the time a few years ago but now it's more like $1600-1800 like you said. I've tried to let myself sell mine a few times but I don't think I can. My mix print differences (when I tested myself blind) were more pronounced than the test you posted here. But it sounds like selling yours, especially at $2k, was a good move for you. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 7, 2016 16:01:59 GMT -6
Well, I do think it sounds the slightest bit wider with the Burl...which you could subjectively call "better"...but I'm gonna see if I can either live without it or pay half for the MCIII and get the same results.
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Post by rangerdanger on Jun 20, 2016 16:13:57 GMT -6
I know i'm going to be in the minority here. But I like the way the stock apollo sounds. For this song anyway...THe Burl sounds very clear. But I feel like the mix is a bit too bright for the Burl. If that makes sense...Thanks for this shootout. It will save me lots of scrilla. Well, one thing. The Level input on the Burl comes AFTER the transformers, so you can't drive the trannies with the input level. That just determines how loud the signal goes into the AD. If you want the transformers to saturate more, you go louder into the Burl. Here's the last test. Re-normalized all the files at once. Burl with Burl Clock. https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/burl-burl-clock%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-testApollo with Apollo Clock https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-apollo-clock%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-testApollo with Burl Clock https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-burl-clock%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-testApollo with Apollo Clock and VP28s in line level https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-apollo-clk-vp28s%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-testApollo with Burl Clock and VP28s in line level https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-burl-clk-vp28s%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-test |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 20, 2016 16:18:42 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 21, 2016 10:19:16 GMT -6
In the newer post, I prefer A. I don't know which is which, but the vocal was a little more shrill on B.
The same thing I hear on B went away when John used a Dangerous summing mixer on another post. Did you use that on these tracks John?
I can almost hear he Apollo's converters at this point after using mine for so long. I also feel that what I don't love about them seems to be resolved whenever a D-Box was involved, so maybe that's the answer right there?
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 12, 2016 9:35:45 GMT -6
Hey everyone! Finally made the jump over here from Gearslutz! I'll be in a position to do a little upgrading in the next few months and it led me to this test. I'm still on my stock Apollo 8 Quad Thunderbolt, and I've really been craving an upgrade on the digital end. I like my mixes with the Apollo but, I always feel like there is just this light smearing going on that I can't seem to overcome. Every time I hear a Burl mix, I feel like that's what I'm missing. On the other hand, I've heard some test where the Apollo is clocked by a BLA clock or something similar, and it has a similar effect to the Burl. It seems like there is just a little more something along the lines of clarity, width and presence that isn't an eq thing. The new micro clock mkiii xb just came out for like 1200 bucks. The Burl is maybe 1800 used. Which one would you guys go for if you had the option? I'm kinda torn and I can't afford both. Thanks in advance!
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