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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2016 16:59:00 GMT -6
Was thinking about doing an A/B of a print through the Burl B2 and Apollo 16 ADs and clocks. I've got a tune I just finished, but I tracked AGs, Bass and Vox with the Burl. I guess it doesn't really matter if the track is the same for both, though, right? I figured I would do it just like I would normally. Route out 8 stereo stems to the D-Box, then a print in via the Burl AD/clock and another with the Apollo AD/clock. Then add mastering, and print in the same way for the final product. Think that would be an interesting test?
EDIT
Two Files. Process was 4 Analog stereo stems to D-Box-->printed back into DAW with Burl/Apollo. Then mastering was applied, run back through Burl/Apollo. So you're hearing the evidence of two trips through the units. All plugs were the same, tried to volume match as much as possible (not sure why there were any volume differences to begin with). Mastering was the same for both. Each use their own clock. I guess the biggest thing to look for is difference in punch, clarity and sound-stage.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-a%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/burlapollo-test
https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-b%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/burlapollo-test
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Post by kcatthedog on May 1, 2016 18:51:35 GMT -6
Bf apollo 16 ?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2016 19:06:39 GMT -6
I have no idea why I said 16. I have the 8. Doh.
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2016 21:56:40 GMT -6
I did this exact test in the hopes of selling the Burl when I got the Apollo 8. I'm sure you'll find it informative and relevant.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2016 22:21:12 GMT -6
I've been curious about this very thing, so I'd love to hear that John.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2016 23:17:19 GMT -6
Cool...I'll do it tomorrow.
I was kinda hoping I could dump the Burl, honestly. When I first got the Burl, I had been using the Apollo to print back in, of course...and I remember kinda wondering if I didn't like that sounds a little better to be honest...but I'd just bought the damn thing, so I was determined to use it lol. I feel like the mixes and tracks I've gotten with the Apollo/D-Box/Burl have been the best I've ever gotten...So, of course, I'm looking to change it lol.
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2016 23:34:05 GMT -6
Cool...I'll do it tomorrow. I was kinda hoping I could dump the Burl, honestly. When I first got the Burl, I had been using the Apollo to print back in, of course...and I remember kinda wondering if I didn't like that sounds a little better to be honest...but I'd just bought the damn thing, so I was determined to use it lol. I feel like the mixes and tracks I've gotten with the Apollo/D-Box/Burl have been the best I've ever gotten...So, of course, I'm looking to change it lol. Do it. I'm interested to hear what you think. I've been using the Apollo/D Box/Burl combo for quite awhile. RMS match the results and test yourself blind.
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Post by mikec on May 2, 2016 7:05:39 GMT -6
Count me as someone anxiously standing by for the results and would not be opposed to adding a B2 for the print back of the summed mix.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 2, 2016 8:48:19 GMT -6
Dangerous Music has the new Convert-2, which is a direct competitor to the Burl. They've gotten great reviews. Then there's the new converters in the Apollo, and I'd bet that before 2016 is finished some small company comes oyt with a A/D-D/A that's competitive at much lower prices.
I need other things first, a new computer, then a new Apollo, but I'm curious how this will all shake out, as it might affect my choices. If there was a converter for $500 that's better than the Apollo's, I might consider not getting the new Apollo, and just getting a satellite for more DSP power.
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Post by schmalzy on May 2, 2016 8:49:37 GMT -6
Cool...I'll do it tomorrow. I was kinda hoping I could dump the Burl, honestly. When I first got the Burl, I had been using the Apollo to print back in, of course...and I remember kinda wondering if I didn't like that sounds a little better to be honest...but I'd just bought the damn thing, so I was determined to use it lol. I feel like the mixes and tracks I've gotten with the Apollo/D-Box/Burl have been the best I've ever gotten...So, of course, I'm looking to change it lol. RMS match the results and test yourself blind. Have someone rename them and set up a triangle test: two source files are used to make three test samples. One of the samples will be a duplicate. That methodology is used in tea/beer/wine/spirits taste testing all the time. It allows for so much doubt that it's hard to have any sort of confidence regarding what you're expecting to taste/hear.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 2, 2016 10:07:40 GMT -6
Dangerous Music has the new Convert-2, which is a direct competitor to the Burl. They've gotten great reviews. Then there's the new converters in the Apollo, and I'd bet that before 2016 is finished some small company comes oyt with a A/D-D/A that's competitive at much lower prices. I need other things first, a new computer, then a new Apollo, but I'm curious how this will all shake out, as it might affect my choices. If there was a converter for $500 that's better than the Apollo's, I might consider not getting the new Apollo, and just getting a satellite for more DSP power. Convert 2 is a DA not an AD. My understanding is that they've got an AD on the drawing board though...However, I'm sure it would be ultra clean. I'm a huge Dangerous fan now, though, so I'll definitely want to check it out. ryanwestmusic says the Convert is incredible and I can only imagine because the DA in the D-Box is stellar.
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Post by LesC on May 2, 2016 10:18:16 GMT -6
Dangerous Music has the new Convert-2, which is a direct competitor to the Burl. They've gotten great reviews. Then there's the new converters in the Apollo, and I'd bet that before 2016 is finished some small company comes oyt with a A/D-D/A that's competitive at much lower prices. I need other things first, a new computer, then a new Apollo, but I'm curious how this will all shake out, as it might affect my choices. If there was a converter for $500 that's better than the Apollo's, I might consider not getting the new Apollo, and just getting a satellite for more DSP power. Martin, unless I'm misunderstanding, the Convert-2 is a DAC, whereas the Burl being talked about for printing a mix is the ADC. You might also consider the SvartBox. I don't think you can do much better than that unless you get into the heavy customization that guys like dandeurloo and jimwillians are into. I got the SvartBox ADC/DAC, and sold my Burl ADC with no regrets. I saved a pile of money and have a great DAC for monitoring as a bonus. Edit: Oops, sorry, I was pontificating about my reply while John was just replying.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 2, 2016 10:38:20 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I thought Dangerous had both DA and AD ready. I figured that would surely be a contender.
If someone was considering a Burl, the Convert series at Dangerous would be a clear competitor.
Les, I had the prototype Svartbox here for a little while, and I really liked it, but it wasn't quite the vibe I was looking for. I had the Burl Bomber her for a week, and it was so sweet.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,953
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Post by ericn on May 2, 2016 10:39:57 GMT -6
I'm waiting for Jeff to Give us A CAPI AD! Line level, 2520 drive control and some big old fashion Iron !
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Post by joey808 on May 3, 2016 7:34:08 GMT -6
Would love to hear the print comparisons too.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 3, 2016 19:05:42 GMT -6
Added A/B in first post
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Post by Johnkenn on May 3, 2016 19:06:48 GMT -6
OK - it does sound like A is louder than B. Sorry. See if you can tell regardless of volume.
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Post by joey808 on May 3, 2016 19:35:17 GMT -6
John, can you set it for download on soundcloud, i want to level match
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Post by wiz on May 3, 2016 19:52:33 GMT -6
I like B
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on May 3, 2016 20:01:17 GMT -6
Should be downloadable now
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Post by joey808 on May 3, 2016 20:04:00 GMT -6
I did too Wiz!! lol!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 3, 2016 20:18:59 GMT -6
I like A. Yes, it's a little louder, but it's got that big cinematic stereo vibe, vocal just sits so tight, you can follow the story beautifully.
Jeez John, is this a song you wrote? The chorus is a monster.
I hear more sibilance on the vocal on track B.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 3, 2016 20:45:34 GMT -6
I like A. Yes, it's a little louder, but it's got that big stereo vibe, vocal just sits so tight, you can follow the story beautifully. Jeez John, is this a song you wrote? The chorus is a monster. I hear more sibilance on the vocal on track B. I agree, I think A is a little wider. Yes...one I just finished. Whole song is in the "What are you working on" section...Thanks!!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 3, 2016 20:47:03 GMT -6
Yikes, if someone doesn't pick up on that song John, there's something wrong in the universe.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 3, 2016 20:48:24 GMT -6
Oh...they will find a way to ignore it...lol! (I'm not bitter)
Thanks, though
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