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Post by tonycamphd on May 3, 2016 21:24:07 GMT -6
quck listen and I prefer B, A is louder, and it appears more open due to brightness, but at the expense of being a bit too pointy/harsh, which would wear me out before long, B is more listenable IMO
again, your mixing is always sounding better and better to me JK.
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Post by kilroyrock on May 4, 2016 6:47:55 GMT -6
B was darker, perhaps volume related, but A definitely comes off brighter. I am using my cheap behringer office cans though, then again - it's more like an average consumer? Fantastic sounding and good song. All I could think was "man, it sure helps when you're starting off with a good song!" - Awesome that it's yours. keep up the good work. I'm interested to know which is which!
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Post by donr on May 4, 2016 8:05:35 GMT -6
Great tune John, sounds great too, nice job. I like A a little better, sounds a bit 'faster' and opened up. Or maybe its' just louder.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 9:18:52 GMT -6
A is Burl, B Apollo.
I'm torn as to what to do with the Burl. Actually have a buyer right that has offered a little more than I've seen them going for. To me, the Burl adds a little smackiness - a sheen - on everything. That's just the sound. I don't know if it's the sound of the transformer or what. Maybe it's the "better" clock and I'm hearing all the details. Maybe that's why people say it sounds like tape - because like tape it adds big bottom and top. I need to listen some more, but it sounds more dimensional to me...I'm just wondering if clocking the Apollo with something like a Micro Clock III would be just as effective. Then I would have the VP28s to add if I wanted...and I could pocket $1000.
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Post by mikec on May 4, 2016 9:40:47 GMT -6
I thought both sounded really good, but the true test was having my wife listen to both not knowing I was even switching them. She is a classically trained violin player so she has a pretty good ear. Her comment after I had switched back and forth a few times was, " I like that song and the I really like the singers voice, now what is the difference supposed to be?" Just goes to show the average consumer listening may not be able to tell any difference in things we all agonize over. If the song is good, recorded well and mixed well....the song is good.
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Post by popmann on May 4, 2016 12:11:07 GMT -6
I didn't have a chance to blindly listen on the studio monitors, but I did earlier on my 2.1 "niceish" computer speakers....and it wasn't CLOSE....A was SO much better. B sounded muted and closed down. Had I GUESSED based on my inaccurrate, I'd have guessed that A was the Sabre....which is why I wanted to get second perspective, because based on that one, which is better than most end user's systems, it wasn't.....CLOSE. Record vs demo--sound quality, I mean, it's obviously the same performance....the one thing I was going to point out what that the snare of the loop sounded really ratty and bad on A---that if you simply mixed that to have a little less presence A would take it all hands down.
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Post by matt on May 4, 2016 12:40:19 GMT -6
IMO A has a wider soundstage and there is better clarity between all of the mix elements. Not sure if the volume/EQ curve of A contributes to this impression, but I suspect that the Burl converters are at the heart of the matter. While not exactly subtle to my ears, the difference does not rise to the "Holy Shit!" level. I really doubt the average listener would notice, or care. Food for thought.
I'm not selling my Burls just yet.
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Post by swurveman on May 4, 2016 12:47:44 GMT -6
I liked A better as well.
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Post by geoff738 on May 4, 2016 12:49:41 GMT -6
I feel like the mixes and tracks I've gotten with the Apollo/D-Box/Burl have been the best I've ever gotten...So, of course, I'm looking to change it lol. Sigh. Well, at least you're consistent! And it gave me a laugh. ok, read all the comments and knew which was which before I gave a listen, so grain of salt etc. First, the song is fantastic, love the arrangement, sounds good through either. But, at least from this, I think you need to keep the Burl. A may be a little louder/ brighter but I thought the high end was better. The hats sounded less strident/ forward on A to me. And it was more open,deeper once everything kicks in. Everything gets a bit mushed together on B. I have a hard time hearing the keys in the background on B and I hear them ok on A. So, um, keep the Burl. Or sell it and buy it again in six months. Fifth times the charm I'm told. cheers, Geoff
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Post by tonycamphd on May 4, 2016 13:36:06 GMT -6
everyone knows brighter is better, and certainly louder is better 8)
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 13:39:32 GMT -6
SO! Here they are level matched. I encourage you all to go get the free ABX app in the App Store. I tried pretty hard 4 separate times to identify the files. I averaged 45% success identifying the correct files.
LEVELMATCHED (they are not necessarily in the same order)
https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-a-norm%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-normalized
https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/print-b-norm%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-normalized
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 13:47:18 GMT -6
OK - Joey is saying A is slightly louder...damn normalization...Anyway, I think we all get the point.
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Post by tonycamphd on May 4, 2016 13:50:24 GMT -6
OK - Joey is saying A is slightly louder...damn normalization...Anyway, I think we all get the point. I like the louder one! haha
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Post by kilroyrock on May 4, 2016 13:54:17 GMT -6
Yeah... that's close. I like B better? I mean.. both sound money. But the snap on the snare sample, the clap comes through better, the sizzle hi hats? maybe? I'm thinking this is more 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other..
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Post by joey808 on May 4, 2016 13:55:35 GMT -6
Lol!!
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Post by geoff738 on May 4, 2016 13:56:13 GMT -6
I like the idea up thread of having a third file that is a duplicate of one of the other two. Will look up the abx app.
Cheers, Geoff
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,953
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Post by ericn on May 4, 2016 13:57:47 GMT -6
Yesterday I was thinking A today B, okay they both sound good, I keep being distracted by the song. Another good one John!
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Post by kcatthedog on May 4, 2016 14:16:29 GMT -6
I prefer B as it is tighter and clearer. I think A is the burl but that depends on how much you were driving its transformers (-16 or-18 dbf ??)
more importantly really dig the song, performance and mix: really good work !
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 14:33:01 GMT -6
Well, one thing. The Level input on the Burl comes AFTER the transformers, so you can't drive the trannies with the input level. That just determines how loud the signal goes into the AD. If you want the transformers to saturate more, you go louder into the Burl.
Here's the last test. Re-normalized all the files at once.
Burl with Burl Clock. https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/burl-burl-clock%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-test
Apollo with Apollo Clock https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-apollo-clock%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-test
Apollo with Burl Clock https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-burl-clock%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-test
Apollo with Apollo Clock and VP28s in line level https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-apollo-clk-vp28s%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-test
Apollo with Burl Clock and VP28s in line level https%3A//soundcloud.com/johnandkris/apollo-burl-clk-vp28s%3Fin%3Djohnandkris/sets/apollo-burl-test
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 14:33:16 GMT -6
No idea why the Burl one looks like that...
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 14:34:54 GMT -6
I really do think it's the Burl transformers that are adding that brightness. It's really doubled up on the VP28 and Burl one. Too much.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2016 14:38:44 GMT -6
BTW - I didn't take too much care in how loud these were. These are more slammed than I'd want...and then they're normalized.
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Post by sozocaps on May 4, 2016 15:00:25 GMT -6
Wow I did NOT like the Burl...
First it put too much glare on the vocal in the throat and S region...
I thought the Apollo was wider and tighter everywhere but more collapsed / flat in depth but more finished too.
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Post by jeromemason on May 4, 2016 15:04:24 GMT -6
jsteiger how does it feel to have created something that just gives anything you put through it pure freaking balls and a pure finished sound. How the fuck did you ever do that man..... just amazing to me that design is.
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Post by sozocaps on May 4, 2016 15:07:46 GMT -6
jsteiger how does it feel to have created something that just gives anything you put through it pure freaking balls and a pure finished sound. How the fuck did you ever do that man..... just amazing to me that design is. Yea man... they fixed everything (conversion is so overrated)
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