Tracking Vocals: Compression in the Chain?

My PRR-176 at about -2db and juicing the output Carnhills sounds incredible. That's a Vari-Mu style. The SL1731's and those Carnhills make everything sound so smooth and fat. I use it again when I'm mixing too, more aggressive, shorter releases and quicker attack times, usually grabbing 4-5db at mix time. That's the one Vari-Mu I've used that doesn't "grab" things.... it's incredibly smooth and fat.

I'm not going to flame you my friend , I promis!
Here's the thing if I were to hire Noah, I'm hiring him for his sound ( well will hope that's why I'm hiring him) . I trust that even if I'm going to have somebody else mix it Noah's Stamp is going to be all over those tracks so I'm going to expect some compression on the vocal.
In the age of digital I'm more likely to track with a comp that fits the vocal, but the mixer in me is going to mult that signal and give you a dry track as a bonus , just cause it's so much easier then say that the dynamics just ain't working in the mix.

All, nothing, and both.
I have no problems using an la2a or 1176 or both on vox on the way in but I usually try it without compression first. On any aggressive singer or screamer its a no brainer; and the 1176 is on. I rarely mult out unless its a super technical piece and I know its gonna take work so I give myself options.
I really enjoy Sylvia Massey interviews which are a wealth of detailed information and ive used several of her techniques with stellar results.

What about the effects of putting compression in series? I know I asked before but..

There's gotta be a big difference between shaving off 3-5 here, then another 3-5 later ..and 6-10 all at once.

Yes, that's what I was talking about..  3-5dB on the way in, 3-5dB on the way out.  Sometimes I chain a few in series on the way out too.

Sometimes if a song has lengthy low or high volume parts, I'll just increase/decrease the preamp gain to get the average level more normalized.  It's really all about feel.  Sometimes I just feel like going crazy, sometimes a bit less.

Sometimes I just want the sound of the compression on the vocal, even if it doesn't need level control.

There sure is a difference. That much gain reduction is way too much. I've only came across 2 compressors that can pull -10 or more and you can't hear it. The Sta level and Jeff Steigers compressor. Even still, it's better to use 2 or more in series for more control. For one thing, few compressors are fast enough to to pull that much reduction and still be musical. That's why people love an 1176, it's plenty fast and can pull -7 or so without getting hateful. But, then you get into the 1176 growl which may or may not be what your looking for. It seldom is for me. I like clean compression on most things so I seldom use an 1176.

That's what's great about Jeff's comp, it's fast and clean. I need one bad.

Can some build me one??? Lol

The technique is pretty simple in practice though there are a few different ways of getting it done.

Here's the method I've found success with:

Step 1: Get your singer to stand in the position they'll be singing in, like they had headphones on (but of course are not wearing them), general body shape how they like to sing. Instruct them not to sing - to be as silent as possible. Then, play the song down and record. All you've recorded is the track bleeding into the microphone. We'll call this track "Bleed."

Step 2: Track the vocals exactly as you would normally, again without headphones. We'll call this track "Vocals plus Bleed."

Step 3: I always like to repeat Step 1 after the vocals are completely tracked. Inevitably, the mix levels will change and you want the track bleeding into the microphone when the vocalist is not singing to be as similar as possible to the track bleeding into the microphone while the vocalist IS singing.

Then, all you need to do is flip the polarity of the "Bleed" track. Playing the polarity-reversed "Bleed" at the same time as the "Vocals plus Bleed," you'll theoretically get near-perfect phase cancellation of the bleed out of the "Vocals plus Bleed" track.

It worked great recently when tracking a group of dudes shouting at a Mid/Side mic setup from across a room. It should work equally well or better for a single vocalist singing into one cardioid mic from a semi-close distance.

Making sure the vocalist doesn't change their position too much while singing is pretty helpful for this. As they move, they'll reflect sound differently and the cancellation of the bleed will be less dramatic.

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Another version of this technique I've heard about but never put into practice includes setting up a microphone directly in the middle of two monitors pointed toward each other delivering identical mono signals (speakers are pointed toward each other - east and west - and the microphone is pointing south). The mic capsule is in the very center point of two identical but physically phase-reversed signals - again assuming the summed sound will effectively null.

The singer should hear the music (because their ears aren't coincident in the middle of their head) but the microphone should effectively hear "none" of the music from the monitors but all of the vocal.

A couple quick notes on this technique: The signal sent to the monitors shouldn't have the polarity flipped between one and the other - their physically opposing directions will do that for you. Also, heads reflect sound - especially the gigantic heads singers can have. There will still be some bleed that isn't phase-cancelable simply because the sound bouncing off the person's cranium, unless they're freakishly symmetrical, won't be identical side to side so won't phase cancel.

Give 'em a shot and see what you think! Good luck!

Right! I'm fixing it now...my brain was thinking backwards and I left out the "like they had" in front of "headphones on." I must have mentally moved on to the next step by then!

Thanks for the catch!

I've heard a FEt-3 pull up to 20 db off a vocal without being able to hear it. I really should put one on my 'acquisitions list'.

I'm intrigued by this comp but naturally the zero support is a bit intimidating. Definitely has the right stuff in it though. What other applications do you use it on?

I have neeeever done that, well that I'll admit to!