|
Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2016 18:44:34 GMT -6
When I heard a dozen different WA76's being compared, only the two UREI's bettered the WA76 IMO. All the other clones, even UAD's new model isn't as close to my ears. But yes, I also agree with Randy, if you really want the absolute best, you gotta get ready for some sticker shock. This is one reason I think Warm Audio will get it closer than any other new version or clone, because they keep doing it. Their EQP-1A is another example. Honest question here - I heard the warm EQP-1a was a "miss", not a "hit". I know a lot of guys sold em after jumping in without hearing them. Do you have one, and if so, have you compared with the originals? I'd have bought a pair if I hadn't heard a lot of "meh" comments. As it stands, although not the best, I'd probably go for the AML clone or have Dan D build me a pair when I can afford to "do it right". I don't need any more "pretty nice" EQ's...
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 18:46:20 GMT -6
I'm not a gear snob so what's important to me is simply that something sounds good. I don't necessarily care that a Neve clone sounds EXACTLY like a vintage Neve. That shit's a moving target anyway, given the difference between even the vintage units. It's important to keep in mind the difference between an original and a clone where the original is quantifiably better versus a situation where both are equally as good but just slightly different. I've used Neves before and have no problem using an SCA or Vintech in their place. I have better things to do than worrying about splitting hairs.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2016 18:46:31 GMT -6
This is the crux of it really. Mostbof us aren't going to be comparing to originals, so does it even matter? Forget how close to the original the clones get, the real question is whether or not it's a useful tool that gives us the results were looking for. It's the same deal with plugins. Do these tools do the job that's asked of them? That's all that matters. I'd agree. ESPECIALLY if the clone manufactures quit using numbers like **76, **3a, **2a, *47, *12 and on and on and on.... Use the number, prepare to be compared to the benchmark. Otherwise call it something new if you want it to stand on it's own and not held up to the light....
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Jan 15, 2016 18:50:43 GMT -6
This is the crux of it really. Mostbof us aren't going to be comparing to originals, so does it even matter? Forget how close to the original the clones get, the real question is whether or not it's a useful tool that gives us the results were looking for. It's the same deal with plugins. Do these tools do the job that's asked of them? That's all that matters. I'd agree. ESPECIALLY if the clone manufactures quit using numbers like **76, **3a, **2a, *47, *12 and on and on and on.... Use the number, prepare to be compared to the benchmark. Otherwise call it something new if you want it to stand on it's own and not held up to the light.... There are pros and cons with this argument.. On the one hand, you are right, but on the other, VERY few consumers of these products have or will ever hear the benchmark in the raw, so the name becomes more about allusion (a type of an appeal to authority) and function than comparison.
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Jan 15, 2016 18:51:56 GMT -6
I'm genuinely curious what original gear you've AB'd with what Warm stuff. This is the crux of it really. Mostbof us aren't going to be comparing to originals, so does it even matter? Forget how close to the original the clones get, the real question is whether or not it's a useful tool that gives us the results were looking for. It's the same deal with plugins. Do these tools do the job that's asked of them? That's all that matters. Exactly. The determining factor for me is just "how does it sound?" I personally love the sound of the WA76. I also can completely understand why some people wouldn't like it - because it has a certain sound. The only hardware 1176's I have used besides the WA76 are 2 UA 1176 reissues. Even those didn't sound the same. One was sterile and boring, the other sounded pretty nice but didn't have as much character and wasn't as smooth as the WA76 when compressing hard. When I realized I could get an 1176 that sounded better than a UA reissue for $1400 less I thought I was dreaming. Great times for audio.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2016 18:59:43 GMT -6
"so that the name becomes more about allusion and function than comparison". sorry - quote when whacky. Actually, I think it's more about marketing. You can make it LOOK like an LA2a, and the comparisons will be made, but you can say "we took a little inspiration, but did our own thing. Try it out. We think you'll like it." And it's all good. But none of the cloners stop there. It's got to have the number, the color, the style of knobs, the visual look, etc.. Even their literature talks directly to it. What should they expect? Well, they should expect people to check out how close it comes to the original and how great of a "clone" (I use that loosely cause it's few and far between REAL clones) the unit really is. Of course this is nothing new, and not unique to WARM. But it should be noted that every WARM product is a clone. Which is OK. But expect the comparisons from people seeking the real thing, (which most are due to the numbers **76/**2a/etc. - even if they have to convince themselves) not blind devotion.... Kind of off topic, but in full disclosure, I've got Dan Deruloo building a REAL dual/stereo LA2a for me right now, and I'm SURE it's going to cost 2-3X's as much as the Warm 2a. And I'm TOTALLY happy to pay the difference, as I know that I'm getting the closest I can get to that "dream sound" without spending SILLY amounts of $$.
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Jan 15, 2016 19:39:54 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. I'm genuinely curious what original gear you've AB'd with what Warm stuff. I have compared UA re-issues, Urie, Blue Stripe and a vintage Rev E when I had my friend, Jay Weaver's brand new Warm WA-76 here for a couple months while he was out on the road.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 15, 2016 19:53:22 GMT -6
I haven't looked at the schematic, but tube circuits are pretty simple. Is there some unobtainium in there, or something? Dizengoff made an affordable Redd... The Dizengoff and the Redd47 are not the same circuit.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2016 20:01:54 GMT -6
I haven't looked at the schematic, but tube circuits are pretty simple. Is there some unobtainium in there, or something? Dizengoff made an affordable Redd... The Dizengoff and the Redd47 are not the same circuit. Another reason that using "the right numbers" is more often than not "misleading"....
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 15, 2016 20:07:32 GMT -6
I think the Warm stuff is a fantastic value in the world of hardware...but as Randy said, I didn't think it sounded as good as a Rev. E I rented. Ultimately, for my uses, I felt the UAD 1176 was really, really great. It gets that super dirty suck when you abuse the input and the attack and release react absolutely similar to my experience with hardware. When I want excellent fast compression, I go with the FC 526 and if I want that dirty 1176 effect I use the UAD.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 15, 2016 20:10:49 GMT -6
The Dizengoff and the Redd47 are not the same circuit. Another reason that using "the right numbers" is more often than not "misleading".... spock can probably speak to this, but as I understand it, the similarity between the Redd47 and the D4 stops at te faceplate. Now, that being said, the audio clips that I heard sounded really good. Sounded more glassy in my opinion, than gooey in the midrange.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 15, 2016 20:13:42 GMT -6
The Dizengoff and the Redd47 are not the same circuit. Another reason that using "the right numbers" is more often than not "misleading".... ah the d4 is a redd 47 clone and close enough that they made sabre rattling sounds so Matt called it the d4.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 15, 2016 20:20:41 GMT -6
Another reason that using "the right numbers" is more often than not "misleading".... ah the d4 is a redd 47 clone and close enough that they made sabre rattling sounds so Matt called it the d4. www.tumblr.com/tagged/wat%20meme
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 15, 2016 21:07:55 GMT -6
My buddy Rick and I both bought b stock D4s and I think his says D47 I think the point is well taken though that probably nothing sounds like a golden original and that there is natural variation in all these products. Bottom line I think is we all strive to buy the best gear we can afford and to learn to use it to the best of our abilities. These distinctions between best (most expensive) and clones and derivatives aren't just semantics: a real well kept Fairchild is what it is and hard to fake
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 15, 2016 21:20:30 GMT -6
I'm genuinely curious what original gear you've AB'd with what Warm stuff. I have compared UA re-issues, Urie, Blue Stripe and a vintage Rev E when I had my friend, Jay Weaver's brand new Warm WA-76 here for a couple months while he was out on the road. Gotcha. I've never actually had them side by side but I've used a Urei Rev F a good bit, the reissues a little and I owned a Mohog for a few years and I find the WA76 holds up well. The differences to my ear were lateral, not obvious jumps in overall awesomeness. But again, that's a memory thing, I've never had them side by side. I like the EQP-WA's a good bit. I wanted to justify selling them but I did blind AB tests on myself (I print my D Box sum through them) and I couldn't do it. The mix that sounded wider, deeper, less colored/pinched (which I thought for SURE was the non Pultec print) turned out to be the Warms. So they stayed in the rack. That said though I've never personally used an original Pultec. I'll be very interested to hear the WA-2a if and when it's out.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 15, 2016 21:23:55 GMT -6
My buddy Rick and I both bought b stock D4s and I think his says D47 ...a real well kept Fairchild is what it is and hard to fake A buddy of mine (who's also a builder) has been doing a huge, multi-year studio build for a guy here in Seattle and that guy has the Fairchild UAD modeled. Along with a massive collection of various other Wet Dream Gear. Just insane.
|
|
|
Post by porkyman on Jan 15, 2016 21:25:48 GMT -6
When I heard a dozen different WA76's being compared, only the two UREI's bettered the WA76 IMO. All the other clones, even UAD's new model isn't as close to my ears. But yes, I also agree with Randy, if you really want the absolute best, you gotta get ready for some sticker shock. This is one reason I think Warm Audio will get it closer than any other new version or clone, because they keep doing it. Their EQP-1A is another example. Honest question here - I heard the warm EQP-1a was a "miss", not a "hit". I know a lot of guys sold em after jumping in without hearing them. Do you have one, and if so, have you compared with the originals? I'd have bought a pair if I hadn't heard a lot of "meh" comments. As it stands, although not the best, I'd probably go for the AML clone or have Dan D build me a pair when I can afford to "do it right". I don't need any more "pretty nice" EQ's... i thought so. i sold it after about a week. i a/b it against the retro powerstrip and it wasnt even similar. if it cant compare to the retro i doubt it'd come close to an original.... i know danderloo mentioned somewhere he didnt like the retro rendition either. i think i might agree. didnt hate it but im drifting further and further away from outboard eq because of it. i dont think its worth the dac.... the comp on the powerstrip though is the best piece of gear ive ever used.
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Jan 15, 2016 22:21:49 GMT -6
I felt that the Warm eq was a better piece of gear than the WA-76 is. The only one I have heard is the one owned by jeromemason though.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 15, 2016 22:24:58 GMT -6
I think those in doubt might find this interesting: www.soundonsound.com/sos/may15/articles/warm-audio-eqpwa.htmOne thing about EQ, you don't always need it, so something like the EQP-1A naturally might not seem as needed or useful as some other components, but when you do need it, it delivers. In a way I'm aligned with Randge, although I don't have his experience and references, I really like the WA-76, I love the EQP-1A. I hope to have another one day for stereo mixes.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 16, 2016 5:36:43 GMT -6
Well as far as I know one real difference between the original and the eqp-wa is the material in the inductor ? I think that is the name of the part. The eqp-wa uses steel and that is not the original material. I believe this effects how clean dirty the eq is, with the older original being more dirty. I really liked my eqp-wa and found they had that sort of good "glassy" clear tone I associate with good strat pick ups but if I put on my UA pultec mkii plug it certainly had a dirtier sound which I came to associate with the modelling of decades of aging and use and the effect of the different inductor material.
If we can put aside the not exactly like the original argument for a bit, one thing the eqp-wa completely delivers on if your are doing ITB mixing is that you get a flat from 40-40K tube and transformer sound and a versatile eq for tracking and for mixing which is very valuable in and of itself.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,953
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Jan 16, 2016 18:57:20 GMT -6
The Warm EQP is designed to work without the interstage transformer, it's a decent EQ in the pultec vain, but like the Manley Pultec has its own sound very similar to a Pultec, the difference I can buy to Warms for the price of a Manley that says Pultec! The thing is the Warm is a pretty good EQ and the only thing that you can buy built at the price that I would use are All 500 series solidstate EQs!
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 16, 2016 19:01:53 GMT -6
On FB page price is listed at $899 ?
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 16, 2016 19:03:46 GMT -6
Warm Audio: Clue: It has tubes and transformers... More tubes inside than the EQP-WA Like · Reply · 46 · January 11 at 3:36pm 15 Replies Ice Box Ice Box can you give us a rough price point of what to expect for the new toy? Like · Reply · 1 · January 13 at 4:50am Warm Audio Warm Audio $899 Like · Reply · 6 · January 14 at 4:38pm
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 16, 2016 22:42:21 GMT -6
It will be debuted in the "City of Angels" To A delighted crowd.
|
|
|
Post by papag on Jan 19, 2016 23:06:51 GMT -6
Looks like they found a way:
|
|