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Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 3:35:09 GMT -6
Ok...I'm gonna be that guy...An affordable V76 wouldn't be a V76. But wasn't an affordable 1176 (WA76) and an affordable Pultec (EQP-WA) also not supposed to be possible?
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Post by Ward on Jan 15, 2016 7:13:14 GMT -6
Are you proposing a branding change? WTF76, WTF72, WTF1176, WTF12... What the eff?? LOL
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Post by Guitar on Jan 15, 2016 9:05:07 GMT -6
Are you proposing a branding change? WTF76, WTF72, WTF1176, WTF12... What the eff?? LOL WTF is this gear? lol x2
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 15, 2016 10:22:03 GMT -6
I would trust Warm Audio's products to be well executed, having had their ToneBeast, WA76 and EQP-1A. Every one of those products delivered exactly what was promised, were well designed and well built. I'd trust Bryce to get all the details right, clones are not equal, just because they're copying something doesn't make it easy. The smallest thing can affect the whole.
And Bryce will diligently follow through if there are any issues. That's a big thing if you've ever been run around by a small company, you really don't want to deal with unreliability or unnecessary delays.
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Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 11:41:15 GMT -6
Are you proposing a branding change? WTF76, WTF72, WTF1176, WTF12... What the eff?? LOL A Telefunken V76 clone. (W)arm(T)ele(F)unken76. WTF76. How are you not getting this? WTF?
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Post by Ward on Jan 15, 2016 11:59:58 GMT -6
Are you proposing a branding change? WTF76, WTF72, WTF1176, WTF12... What the eff?? LOL A Telefunken V76 clone. (W)arm(T)ele(F)unken76. WTF76. How are you not getting this? WTF? sometimes making the joke is more enjoyable than acknowledging the obvious. LOLZ
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Post by Ward on Jan 15, 2016 12:02:58 GMT -6
I would trust Warm Audio's products to be well executed, having had their ToneBeast, WA76 and EQP-1A. Every one of those products delivered exactly what was promised, were well designed and well built. I'd trust Bryce to get all the details right, clones are not equal, just because they're copying something doesn't make it easy. The smallest thing can affect the whole. And Bryce will diligently follow through if there are any issues. That's a big thing if you've ever been run around by a small company, you really don't want to deal with unreliability or unnecessary delays. I concur! I have a TB12, 2 WA76s, and 2 EQP-WAs now... but having Joshua's SA2a, I have to tell you, it's going to have to be awfully good to match that unit for an even lower price! Joshua Stam is making virtually nothing from these units, he just seems to be on a mission to put essential tools in his colleagues' hands at the lowest possible cost. He can have that business too. LOL . . . no one else would be that chivalrous, charitable, benevolent etc.
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Post by plinker on Jan 15, 2016 12:49:12 GMT -6
Ok...I'm gonna be that guy...An affordable V76 wouldn't be a V76. OK...I'm gonna be that other guy...why not?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 15, 2016 15:43:32 GMT -6
Hey - I'm all for it. I just have my doubts that it can be done.
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Post by plinker on Jan 15, 2016 15:54:10 GMT -6
I haven't looked at the schematic, but tube circuits are pretty simple. Is there some unobtainium in there, or something?
Dizengoff made an affordable Redd...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 15, 2016 16:17:35 GMT -6
Just guessing, but I bet it'll be more like $699 or $799, I think it'll take that much more to get it right.
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Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 16:29:07 GMT -6
I haven't looked at the schematic, but tube circuits are pretty simple. Is there some unobtainium in there, or something? Dizengoff made and affordable Redd... Exactly. I totally think it might be possible and, if done correctly, would sell well. As far as I'm aware, the only thing in there that might be difficult to do are the transformers but the way that they are cloning transformers today... I suppose we should also define affordable but when original units go for two and three grand, there's a lot of margin to come down on. I'd agree that it's not doable for $350 but it might be for $699 and I would happily pay that. Maybe do a stereo unit for $1,200.
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Post by plinker on Jan 15, 2016 16:44:21 GMT -6
Bingo!
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Post by M57 on Jan 15, 2016 16:59:23 GMT -6
If it's an 'affordable' 2A it's gotta be less then a grand because Stam has set that bar 'low.'
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Post by Randge on Jan 15, 2016 17:09:44 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2016 17:18:25 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. I do agree and Randy this is where the difference between the needs of a Pro and somebody at home is important. While Warm isn't the real thing it comes as close as many more expensive clones. I'm happy with the fact that in Warm I can afford a Rack full of gear instead of one in already built format. Maybe more Home recording guys will sell their real gear for multiple Warm units ! Oh and I don't consider the new UA stuff to be anything but a modern clone!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 15, 2016 17:34:19 GMT -6
When I heard a dozen different WA76's being compared, only the two UREI's bettered the WA76 IMO. All the other clones, even UAD's new model isn't as close to my ears. But yes, I also agree with Randy, if you really want the absolute best, you gotta get ready for some sticker shock.
This is one reason I think Warm Audio will get it closer than any other new version or clone, because they keep doing it. Their EQP-1A is another example.
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Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 17:39:00 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. Just curious, what are these government restrictions?
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Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 17:45:12 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. I do agree and Randy this is where the difference between the needs of a Pro and somebody at home is important. While Warm isn't the real thing it comes as close as many more expensive clones. I'm happy with the fact that in Warm I can afford a Rack full of gear instead of one in already built format. Maybe more Home recording guys will sell their real gear for multiple Warm units ! Oh and I don't consider the new UA stuff to be anything but a modern clone! And if spending $3,000 on one channel of preamp is a non-starter, the absolute best of the best (ie., vintage unit) doesn't even factor into the equation. So at that point we're talking exclusively about clones and the question becomes "how close can I get and for how much money?".
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2016 17:57:58 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. Just curious, what are these government restrictions? You can't use the chemicals they used in the old day!
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Post by Quint on Jan 15, 2016 18:01:48 GMT -6
Just curious, what are these government restrictions? You can't use the chemicals they used in the old day! Can you elaborate for someone ignorant of the specifics? A transformer is essentially just wire wrapped around a metal core. What chemicals are we talking about here and what were they used for?
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 15, 2016 18:04:41 GMT -6
I think the counter argument is also how low a percentage of the vintage price gets me a very good modern example of that type of gear ?
So, Warm Audio is a great example, with a mean price of like $600 usd, I get a great api style pre, a 1176 comp and or a pultec eq and now I guess an LA2. I can't afford the absolute real thing but I can get a great closely sonically related tool for an affordable price: works for me !
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Post by ragan on Jan 15, 2016 18:30:48 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. I'm genuinely curious what original gear you've AB'd with what Warm stuff.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 15, 2016 18:36:53 GMT -6
The tone is in the input and output transformers and the EF804S tube. Since it's not legal to make transformers that sound that good anymore (government restrictions), the sound of the V-76 is unobtanium to me unless you pay the cash for the real thing. What Bryce has done is fantastic and he has made good gear, but if you stack them next to the originals in proper working order, there are distinct tonal differences that make me desire the original pieces that much more. I'm genuinely curious what original gear you've AB'd with what Warm stuff. This is the crux of it really. Mostbof us aren't going to be comparing to originals, so does it even matter? Forget how close to the original the clones get, the real question is whether or not it's a useful tool that gives us the results were looking for. It's the same deal with plugins. Do these tools do the job that's asked of them? That's all that matters.
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Post by Randge on Jan 15, 2016 18:43:09 GMT -6
A lot can be said for the skill and quality of transformer companies like UTC, Thordarson, Stancor, Peerless, UTC, Triad and the like. I think a lot of the sound of those old transformers that please my ears do so because of the paper layer winding process. I am not sure how many transformer companies are doing it like that anymore. Add the lead differences in the solder connections and you have some pretty big tonal differences. Even the metal in the coils aren't as pure as they once were and all the little things add up to a big deal to me.
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