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Post by odyssey76 on Dec 11, 2015 20:55:58 GMT -6
I've had the hardest time getting these to play over the last couple days. Won't play at all on my iPhone and I could only get the heavy guitar files to play on my desktop but even those were quirky. Anyone else have this issue? Anyway, since I only listened to the heavy guitar files those were the only tracks I could vote on. I liked A or 1st .wav file. Much prefer the darker, thicker tone for that particular guitar sound. Some high pass filter and that track would be easy to work with. Thanks for doing this svart. I have a 121 so I was eager to hear this shootout.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2015 21:09:02 GMT -6
No - svart will vouch for me. Not really any big deal. I just so Happen to like the darker flavor - except on drums. Jokey, i was kidding, we chatted the other night about it! But...you could ruin my internet cred....
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Post by henge on Dec 11, 2015 21:20:34 GMT -6
svart who's who and what's what...;-)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 11, 2015 22:17:15 GMT -6
I liked them both. Obviously, the louder one is more appealing when listening and not level matching. I think the brighter one is the Samar.. I would choose mic #2 for two reasons, first you can EQ it to be less bright, but EQing mic A to be brighter would create more noise. Second, as much as I can hear through the level difference, and get that mic #1 is sweet, I think mic #2 would actually make a very good vocal mic, where mic #1 seems like it's mainly for instruments.
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Post by svart on Dec 11, 2015 22:51:03 GMT -6
EDIT: Seems that Mark thinks that maybe the demo mic I have might have a damaged ribbon. I think maybe we should hold off on conclusions until we're sure it was a valid test.
I'm sending the mic back to him so he can see if there is anything wrong.
I did go back to make sure that the files were labeled correctly and that the mics were hooked up correctly and that I didn't get them backwards.. The VL37 was indeed #1, and the R121 was indeed #2 in all cases.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to test another VL37 if this one turns out to have a bad ribbon.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 12, 2015 1:06:15 GMT -6
EDIT: Seems that Mark thinks that maybe the demo mic I have might have a damaged ribbon. I think maybe we should hold off on conclusions until we're sure it was a valid test.
I'm sending the mic back to him so he can see if there is anything wrong. I did go back to make sure that the files were labeled correctly and that the mics were hooked up correctly and that I didn't get them backwards.. The VL37 was indeed #1, and the R121 was indeed #2 in all cases. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test another VL37 if this one turns out to have a bad ribbon. I really suspected there was something not right when i heard that #1 was the samar mic(earlier post), my samar has more top than the #2 mic in your test, i just figured it was me not knowing your rig intimately...
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Post by svart on Dec 12, 2015 8:52:24 GMT -6
EDIT: Seems that Mark thinks that maybe the demo mic I have might have a damaged ribbon. I think maybe we should hold off on conclusions until we're sure it was a valid test.
I'm sending the mic back to him so he can see if there is anything wrong. I did go back to make sure that the files were labeled correctly and that the mics were hooked up correctly and that I didn't get them backwards.. The VL37 was indeed #1, and the R121 was indeed #2 in all cases. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test another VL37 if this one turns out to have a bad ribbon. I really suspected there was something not right when i heard that #1 was the samar mic(earlier post), my samar has more top than the #2 mic in your test, i just figured it was me not knowing your rig intimately... I still hear more top in #1, its just swamped by the more pronounced mids in #2. John also mentions that this vl37 sound is similar to what he gets with his, scooped and slightly wooly in the low mids. I also don't hear the telltale fuzz of a torn ribbon. I've had a few of those and know the symptoms well. I'll gladly give him the benefit of the doubt right now and hopefully it's just something wrong with the ribbon.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 12, 2015 10:07:18 GMT -6
Wow, that's crazy. 1 sounds nothing like my MF65's.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 12, 2015 10:08:13 GMT -6
I lijstend to the VL37 at AES for quite a while. If I had to give a general description, I would have said it's bright for a ribbon, but i mean that in a very good way, as its still has that ribbon smoothness. That's what distinguishes it from the competition. I could easily imagine it being a main vocal mic, whereas the few ribbons I've used soundedgreat, but were kind of retro vibed, and I'd choose a high end LDC over them any day for main vocals. With the Samar, it would be a viable choice and depend on the vocalist.
This made me feel something wasn't right with the Samar ribbon, it sure as hell wasn't muffled and dense. Keep us posted Svart.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2015 10:14:14 GMT -6
It's not like it sounds bad. Again, I preferred the Samar for all but one. Honestly, I thought it had a much bigger bottom with a more open top - without the forward mids. The Royer reminded me of the AEA N22. I also think if these were level matched and mixed up, you would have seen a much different result. I've said before - just because someone buys adspace here, it doesn't entitle them to special protection. But in this case, I actually preferred the Samar...so, I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2015 10:14:55 GMT -6
If it's broken, then I need to send mine in, because it sound pretty similar.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2015 10:19:30 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 12, 2015 10:46:45 GMT -6
like i said back on the first page, the difference in output is a big red flag, that sort of a problem would wreak havoc on a ribbons frequency response, my comment very late last night was miss stated, i should have said my samar modded mic has a lot more "presence" than that mic in test #1, the low mids are definitely clearer, what i'm hearing on the bottom/mids of #1 i call woofy push murk, it is totally hard to quantify what is going on in someone else's abode, but i'd bet the farm something's amiss in that mic.
the cool news for me is i have a pair of Royer R121 offset clones that i will eventually send to Samar for their super treatment, which is tantamount to having a pair of Samaroy's at my side going into battle... get it Samaroy meaning Samar/Royer hybrid=Samari.... hike! 8)
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Post by EmRR on Dec 12, 2015 11:23:52 GMT -6
Hard to say. I didn't dig for more than that first clip (10-12"?), if I heard that amount of low mid proximity I'd have them back up 3-4 inches.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2015 12:11:38 GMT -6
That's a vocal file...not one of the ones Svart posted.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2015 12:13:02 GMT -6
Ribbons are dark and wooly by nature. Ever listened to a DX77?
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Post by EmRR on Dec 12, 2015 14:09:45 GMT -6
My Samar mod RM-3 and MF65's are definitely not wooly. Mark also redid some Fatheads, they are certainly darker due to body design. Yeah, 77's and 44's are dark and wooly in comparison.
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Post by stribor1 on Dec 14, 2015 5:05:06 GMT -6
A year back Reckordinghacks.com did a ribbon mic shootout, VL37 was not included but Samar MF65 was there, also the Royer 121 and many others. For those of you who have missed it: recordinghacks.com/2011/07/11/60000-ribbon-mic-shootout/Although I can hear some similarities between the Svart samples of the VL37 and the Reckrdinhacks samples of the MF65, the lower level on the Svart clips seems just not right.
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Post by svart on Dec 14, 2015 9:03:14 GMT -6
A year back Reckordinghacks.com did a ribbon mic shootout, VL37 was not included but Samar MF65 was there, also the Royer 121 and many others. For those of you who have missed it: recordinghacks.com/2011/07/11/60000-ribbon-mic-shootout/Although I can hear some similarities between the Svart samples of the VL37 and the Reckrdinhacks samples of the MF65, the lower level on the Svart clips seems just not right. The R121 has always been hotter than most other ribbons. It's part of the characteristic of the R121.. It's not that the VL37 is lower in level, it's that the R121 is hotter than average. To me, the VL37 I had here was about the same level as other ribbons I've used, but if Mark says he thinks it's low, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 14, 2015 9:07:09 GMT -6
I'd guess to be in agreement that would be low too, MF65's are the hottest ribbons I own.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 14, 2015 9:14:05 GMT -6
by virtue of the fact that the Samar's are using 1.8 ribbons vs the royer 2.5 ribbons alone. Ribbons are relatively simple mechanisms, their would have to be some crazy diffs between tranny's for the royer output to be that much hotter, i fully expected the opposite by the samples, and believed the royer(though different), sounded more like my Samar mods.
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Post by svart on Dec 14, 2015 10:33:18 GMT -6
I dunno, I had a couple ribbons, one modded with 1.5micron ribbon, with lundahl transformer, etc and it was still slightly darker and lower output than the Royer. I auditioned an AEA, which was also much darker and lower output, and a friend had some modified fatheads, also darker and lower output. I tried the royer and immediately bought it due to the output and much brighter sound, which confuses me that so many people claim that the R121 is "dark", when it was easily the brightest ribbon that I auditioned at the time.
I still hope that Mark will send another one for demo. It's one thing for folks to say these things in defense but it's quite another to hear it in person.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 14, 2015 11:11:15 GMT -6
Yep. And I've never had a Royer or AEA in hand. Only a pair of Samar MF65's, Beyer M130 and M160, Coles 4038's, RCA 77-DX's and 44-B, Shure 300, and Samar modified Fatheads and Stellar RM-3's. Never have they all been up side by side for a shoot out. As you said, hearing in person is the deal.
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Post by rob61 on Dec 14, 2015 12:18:56 GMT -6
In regards to the venerable RCA 77DX sounding "wooly", it may depend on the individual specimen and how you set it up. The 77DX was referred to as a "Polydirectional Microphone". In fact, it was the first, and I believe still the only, ribbon microphone with selectable patterns. Using a labyrinth of chambers and a mechanical shutter, it can change the pickup pattern and frequency response. The pattern selector (which alters the frequency response of the microphone rather dramatically) is on the back of the mic and there is an additional frequency switch on the bottom for M V1 and V2.
I was going to post pictures and an audio sample but then thought the better of it as I don't want to "hijack" this thread as its about the Samar and Royer comparison.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 14, 2015 13:39:03 GMT -6
There are couple new design multi pattern ribbons in the pipeline, and there's the WE/STC 633/4033 type. The 77DX has a comparably muted top no matter the pattern in my experience, at least compared to these modern small diameter body types.
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