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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 9:26:43 GMT -6
could it be with the super magnet nature of neodymium magnets(rare earth magnets), the mics being side by side could be interfering with each others magnetic fields? hmmm? Again the wildly different outputs is a bit baffling to me... Tonight I'll move the mics further apart and see if anything changes. If it does, I'll post new tracks specific to that test.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 10, 2015 9:29:14 GMT -6
I believe Mark would tell you the cleanliness of the ribbon ends and the clamps at time of construction make a difference in noise and level.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 10, 2015 9:30:15 GMT -6
could it be with the super magnet nature of neodymium magnets(rare earth magnets), the mics being side by side could be interfering with each others magnetic fields? hmmm? Again the wildly different outputs is a bit baffling to me... Beyond the level differences, what are your picks? they are relatively close, and i might pick totally different if i had them here in my environment, these "out of my own hands" tests only go so far, but I picked 2 on all of them because if felt the only eq moves i'd need to make would be cuts, i also felt the low mids were just a touch murk push woofy on 1, that drives me as nuts as slice, as i could easily go either way, the cost of that VL seems a no brainer.
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 10:01:50 GMT -6
I was going to vote but I felt it wasn't quite fair. Louder sources always sound brighter and better. I'd honestly have to hear them adjusted to all the same level. I supplied the files as-is so people could hear the level difference too. Many folks have level matched on their own and made their choices for their personal reasons. I would suggest that anyone download the files and listen to them however they would normally use a track in a mix. Level match, compression, EQ, etc. This way they get a feel for which file would work best in their workflow, not just what sounds best on it's own.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 10, 2015 10:13:14 GMT -6
I must be opposite than most...I thought the darker one sounded better in all applications except the drums. Bigger bottom and punchier.
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 10:24:25 GMT -6
I definitely feel one is better on some sources, but the other is better on others. I'm purposely being vague.
It seems some folks already know which is which.
How long should I let this run before revealing the sources?
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 10, 2015 10:31:29 GMT -6
I definitely feel one is better on some sources, but the other is better on others. I'm purposely being vague. It seems some folks already know which is which. How long should I let this run before revealing the sources? I say no hurry, do as you see fit though...
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 10:42:40 GMT -6
I'll let it go on another day or so. I'm in no hurry to reveal, I just wanted to balance folks having enough time to evaluate, and those who are asking for the results already.
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 10:51:25 GMT -6
I must be opposite than most...I thought the darker one sounded better in all applications except the drums. Bigger bottom and punchier. It's really going to boil down to using the mics in real life with the workflows and small differences in tone. I can say that having them together and A/B'ing them in real time was a real eye-opener and I greatly appreciate Mark letting us demo these mics like he does. I think he completely understands that the only way to know for sure if a mic is good for the user, is to test in our studios. I'll vaguely say that going into this I had pre-conceived notions on which mic would win, and this test did not come out as expected based on those expectations. Color me surprised.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 10, 2015 11:01:02 GMT -6
the other thing that matters huge is pre amps, i have api's and neve's here, the samar modded ribbons i have sound diff on all, but best through a surprisingly good Delta8 pre(JW super modded out of course 8), it won a little shootout that wiz and i did while he was here, lots of softsided clarity and detail.
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 11:04:46 GMT -6
the other thing that matters huge is pre amps, i have api's and neve's here, the samar modded ribbons i have sound diff on all, but best through a surprisingly good Delta8 pre(JW super modded out of course 8), it won a little shootout that wiz and i did while he was here, lots of softsided clarity and detail. This test might have been better served using my SSL9K preamps, but those are on loan to another studio for a session, and I wouldn't be able to get them back for a couple weeks.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 10, 2015 11:16:10 GMT -6
On preamps, I can add my various Samar mics seem to maintain their basic sound across preamp types better than the Beyer, Cascade, RCA, and Shure ribbons I've used. Some of those others really sound better in the treble with 50-70 year old preamps with non-loaded transformer secondary feeding a tube grid, and seem stifled with transformerless preamps. The Samar through a broad spectrum of types reveal the preamp differences more clearly.
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Post by rob61 on Dec 10, 2015 14:55:14 GMT -6
I'd really like to hear the Samar through the Diezengoff D4 preamp. I find it matches nicely with my ribbon mics. Anyone here with the Samar have a D4?
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Post by EmRR on Dec 10, 2015 17:01:38 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing these tests. I tried headphones and speakers. I listened without adjusting relative volume, then using combination of null test, Spectrafoo (displays peak power, peak RMS, and avg. RMS), and DP metering to try and match gains. Gains seem slightly different for each comparison, it may be frequency dependent differences showing up in metering, and not preamp setting related. Across the board, 1 has less top extension and has a woolier low mid. In contrast 2 has more top bite and less lower mid bloat, almost seems lower mid-thin when comparing to 1. Watching Spectrafoo, 2 occasionally has slightly higher peak power relative to peak RMS than does 1, comparatively, suggesting slightly more dynamic range with transients. I suspect we'd all like to try for best sounding different position with each mic also, and compare that along with these matched position tests. Along those lines I can see pulling 1 back to reduce low mid bloat, while having 2 relatively closer at times, and 2 possibly rotated slightly off axis to reduce treble bite whereas with 1 it seems I'd always be positioning for max treble. Obviously context matters most, and I can see either winning for a given contextual situation, especially if combining multiple mics. I'm rarely as close to a speaker cab as the pics suggest. I have an opinion about which I think is which, but will refrain. As raw sounds, I lean more strongly towards 2 but voting seems absolutist and I'd rather move mics around myself and learn more.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 10, 2015 18:34:53 GMT -6
A vocal test would be useful too, both male and female singers. I might want to hear matched position, and also singer selected position since ribbon proximity effect is so strong and can be so different.
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 18:43:13 GMT -6
A vocal test would be useful too, both male and female singers. I might want to hear matched position, and also singer selected position since ribbon proximity effect is so strong and can be so different. I can do some talking. I'm not a singer, and I don't have any scheduled to come into the studio..
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Post by EmRR on Dec 10, 2015 18:54:51 GMT -6
Yeah, that's asking a lot, I know. Just some ideas.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 10, 2015 20:54:14 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing these tests. I tried headphones and speakers. I listened without adjusting relative volume, then using combination of null test, Spectrafoo (displays peak power, peak RMS, and avg. RMS), and DP metering to try and match gains. Gains seem slightly different for each comparison, it may be frequency dependent differences showing up in metering, and not preamp setting related. Across the board, 1 has less top extension and has a woolier low mid. In contrast 2 has more top bite and less lower mid bloat, almost seems lower mid-thin when comparing to 1. Watching Spectrafoo, 2 occasionally has slightly higher peak power relative to peak RMS than does 1, comparatively, suggesting slightly more dynamic range with transients. I suspect we'd all like to try for best sounding different position with each mic also, and compare that along with these matched position tests. Along those lines I can see pulling 1 back to reduce low mid bloat, while having 2 relatively closer at times, and 2 possibly rotated slightly off axis to reduce treble bite whereas with 1 it seems I'd always be positioning for max treble. Obviously context matters most, and I can see either winning for a given contextual situation, especially if combining multiple mics. I'm rarely as close to a speaker cab as the pics suggest. I have an opinion about which I think is which, but will refrain. As raw sounds, I lean more strongly towards 2 but voting seems absolutist and I'd rather move mics around myself and learn more. Heard it the exact same way.
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Post by svart on Dec 10, 2015 21:27:13 GMT -6
And I'd like to say once again, thank you to Mark and Samar microphones for allowing me to demo a mic, and to post the files here!
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Post by svart on Dec 11, 2015 14:42:57 GMT -6
looks like the voting had started to wane, should I give my opinions and the sources?
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2015 17:03:25 GMT -6
Sure
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2015 17:05:18 GMT -6
Oh - and please vouch that I voted for A before knowing which was which.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 11, 2015 18:04:56 GMT -6
Oh - and please vouch that I voted for A before knowing which was which. sure ya did
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 11, 2015 18:17:27 GMT -6
No - svart will vouch for me. Not really any big deal. I just so Happen to like the darker flavor - except on drums.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 11, 2015 18:46:22 GMT -6
No - svart will vouch for me. Not really any big deal. I just so Happen to like the darker flavor - except on drums. Jokey, i was kidding, we chatted the other night about it!
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