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Post by lolo on Oct 14, 2013 3:18:51 GMT -6
I'm adding a capsule upgrade to ny Blackspade U17 to my list. I wouldn't mind a monitor as good as the Focal Solo6 Be for $1.500. Neumann KH120's. They are better in my opinion. Tested them side by side before i made my decision. The Neumanns are frikkin awesome $1500
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2013 8:01:00 GMT -6
Funny, I was thinking about those just last week lolo. I went and auditioned them side by side with my Adam A7X's. I liked them for several reasons, but had some reservations too. First, my ears instantly relaxed when compared to the Adam's, which led me to believe they would be much more comfortable to work on for hours at a time, which I do frequently. They're smaller too, which would work nicely for me, since I leave my monitors on my desktop. Now, the bass was much fuller on the Adam's, so it seemed the obvious choice, but being a nearfield monitor, that's not necessarily better, as we always extrapolate with nearfields, as we don't have a true low end. The vocals seemed a little "flat" to me also. It could be the Neumann's translate better, but you never know until you have speakers for a while. My impression was they were monitors, in the sense that the ubiquitous Yamaha NS-10's were monitors, and not a substitute for bigger speakers. That's not necessarily good or bad, it is what it is. The interesting part of the story is that the $2,600 Focal Solo6 BE monitors were right next to both the Adam's and the Neumann's, so I switched the tracks over to those a few times. Now, compared to some custom made Westlake monitors or perhaps other even more expensive monitors you could say they were a little bloated, but compared to the Neumann's and Adam's it was no contest. The Focal's had all the detail, ease of the Neumann's, a much deeper and wider soundstage, a much bigger low end too.
I'd say the Focal's are what I'd really like to have. Since I can probably get a fair price for my Adam's, and if I'm patient, there are often 15% discounts at Sam Ash or the Guitar Center, I could conceivably almost "trade" over for the Neumann's. I'd probably have to add $250-$300 to the pot to make it happen.
The thing is, it's hard to think about bothering, when I've heard what I really prefer, but just can't afford it at the moment. I guess in my wish list, I should clarify, I want a pair of Focal Solo6 monitors for $1,600, or less. It is a wish list after all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 10:46:28 GMT -6
MJB, for what it's worth, i found my solo 6's on ebay for $1800. cost me $100 to ship 'em tho, from oregon to NYC. when i was looking, i saw them in the 1900-2200 price range used.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2013 13:16:16 GMT -6
Maybe they'll show up a little cheaper, not that they've been available for a while longer. The tricky part is that if I sold my Adams', I could basically go to the store and buy the Neumann's,, but If I wanted to buy the Focals used, I'd have to front the money and then hope the Adam's sell quickly. At least I like the Adams', so it's OK if I just keep them. All in good time, hopefully.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 14, 2013 16:48:48 GMT -6
Yeah, but you don't get that vibe that you get from a nice live room, you know? There's clothes and junk lying around that you gotta move to make room for the mic stands, and find the spot on the floor that doesn't squeak when you stand on it lol. Stuff like that.. Oh yeah, I get it. Nothing like a big wooden live room.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 14, 2013 16:50:31 GMT -6
I'm adding a capsule upgrade to ny Blackspade U17 to my list. I wouldn't mind a monitor as good as the Focal Solo6 Be for $1.500. It still sounds great from what I've heard of your tracks.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2013 21:16:04 GMT -6
Well, thanks my friend, it's good to feel some encouragement from a true musician. I'm just looking at making it a little easier to sound better. The mic upgrade is my first priority, but then who knows what I might find inspiring at AES this weekend..
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Post by popmann on Oct 14, 2013 21:28:47 GMT -6
Not to put in a shameless plug ...but, you also might get something professionally mixed. One of the things I offer is feedback on the tracking. Where and how improvements can happen. Objective weak spots for next time. I find that sometimes people lack the perspective to know what tracks actually sound as they should in raw form....and which don't. I'll have clients who think the vocal is poor or drums are poor but the guitar is killer--when the opposite is true. They maybe don't know how to set the vocal compressor well--or hate the sound of their own voice. Don't know how to properly treat multimic'd drums in a mix--but, did a decent job at tracking them. I say that having NOT heard anything from you...but, just something to keep in mind if you're looking to quickly KNOW where to focus any upgrade--be it gear or technique. I think clients learn more from having me mix....and talk to them about what I heard as issues, than they would ever get from getting OCD reading forums and trying to figure things out from general advice to people about situations that may be completely different than yours.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2013 22:11:32 GMT -6
Thanks popmann, will keep that in mind. My friend, engineer/producer Jay Messina has sat with me and thought my mixes were good, so I think I'm OK for the current purposes of my recordings. I'm mostly trying to understand better what I find with my ears, so it happens easier and faster each time.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2013 22:34:28 GMT -6
Not to put in a shameless plug ...but, you also might get something professionally mixed. One of the things I offer is feedback on the tracking. Where and how improvements can happen. Objective weak spots for next time. I find that sometimes people lack the perspective to know what tracks actually sound as they should in raw form....and which don't. I'll have clients who think the vocal is poor or drums are poor but the guitar is killer--when the opposite is true. They maybe don't know how to set the vocal compressor well--or hate the sound of their own voice. Don't know how to properly treat multimic'd drums in a mix--but, did a decent job at tracking them. I say that having NOT heard anything from you...but, just something to keep in mind if you're looking to quickly KNOW where to focus any upgrade--be it gear or technique. I think clients learn more from having me mix....and talk to them about what I heard as issues, than they would ever get from getting OCD reading forums and trying to figure things out from general advice to people about situations that may be completely different than yours. Well, we have a high opinion of ourselves, don't we?
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2013 22:51:12 GMT -6
Not to put in a shameless plug ...but, you also might get something professionally mixed. One of the things I offer is feedback on the tracking. Where and how improvements can happen. Objective weak spots for next time. I find that sometimes people lack the perspective to know what tracks actually sound as they should in raw form....and which don't. I'll have clients who think the vocal is poor or drums are poor but the guitar is killer--when the opposite is true. They maybe don't know how to set the vocal compressor well--or hate the sound of their own voice. Don't know how to properly treat multimic'd drums in a mix--but, did a decent job at tracking them. I say that having NOT heard anything from you...but, just something to keep in mind if you're looking to quickly KNOW where to focus any upgrade--be it gear or technique. I think clients learn more from having me mix....and talk to them about what I heard as issues, than they would ever get from getting OCD reading forums and trying to figure things out from general advice to people about situations that may be completely different than yours. do you have a link to a catalogue of your work that prospective clients can check out?
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Post by unit7 on Oct 14, 2013 23:35:30 GMT -6
Yes, this reminds me of an ad with golfer Payne Stewart (R.I.P) he did for one of the big club brands. Payne was always dressed very well and very old school, and he looked straight into the camera and said 'If you're gonna dress like this, you gotta be able to back it up', and then fired away. Loved that ad
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2013 13:41:57 GMT -6
I can't speak for the other half of we, but...would that be because of the suggestion that working with someone with more experience might help someone....or because I pointed out that I have experience? If the latter--just take me off the table. I'll be glad to edit my post to remove the plug part...it's a suggestion whether it's me or even better, someone local to him. I'm simply suggesting that working in a vacuum start to finish one doesn't often know WHERE the biggest bottleneck is.
Then, you're fine.
That is the goal. Nothing beats doing a "Save as" and reseting the mixer. Do it again. And again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2013 14:04:35 GMT -6
Jeff's modular console!
I dream about it at night.
Sad. I know.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 15, 2013 14:13:49 GMT -6
Popmann has a point, recently, my friend at Apple, Logic Pro expert Juan Uribe, was working with me on tweaking a vocal in Flex Time. He's an accomplished engineer and musician in his own right. We were able to listen together and look at each other, nodding approval when something was right. I realized how much I miss working with other people. It's usually faster, and definitely more fun. Even the most experienced musicians need a second ear sometimes. The issue is being able to afford that assistance. I used to make $4,000 to $6,000 for what they pay less than $50 for today, so I have much less to spread around.
So, if I can add to my wish list, I wish to get paid enough for the use of my music to easily afford all the things I desire to make music with. Meaning, gear of course, but great musicians, engineers and producers too.
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Post by Ward on Oct 17, 2013 21:28:50 GMT -6
I have had one burning desire, one dream, one HUGE wish for some time now:
Microtech Gefell buys the Neumann division from Sennheiser and the combined teams sit down in Gefell and evaluate everything in both lines and offer the world's greatest array of microphones EVER. That line-up would include a U48/47,UM57, U67, M249b, M269, M582/KM54/KM56, a new U97 that is a cross between the U87 and Gefells 800 or 900, etc etc
I AM ALLOWED TO DREAM!!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 17, 2013 21:45:22 GMT -6
I like that. I met Oliver Archut today, from Tab Funkenwerk. He has developed along with Terry Manning, a new mic under the brand name Lucas, named after Manning's son. It looks serious. I'll give it try tomorrow, but I think Oliver's making a mic as well as it can be made today. Didn't know Sennheiser owned Neumann, that's probably not such a good thing.
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Post by lolo on Oct 18, 2013 0:44:50 GMT -6
Faithfull ITB Bricasti
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2013 7:43:50 GMT -6
Hmm.. I've never used a Bricasti, though I know it by reputation. Is it a convolution reverb? I'm curious what makes it special. The ReLab 480XL is a little special, I think because of the high def algorithms.
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Post by svart on Oct 18, 2013 8:05:14 GMT -6
I have had one burning desire, one dream, one HUGE wish for some time now: Microtech Gefell buys the Neumann division from Sennheiser and the combined teams sit down in Gefell and evaluate everything in both lines and offer the world's greatest array of microphones EVER. That line-up would include a U48/47,UM57, U67, M249b, M269, M582/KM54/KM56, a new U97 that is a cross between the U87 and Gefells 800 or 900, etc etc I AM ALLOWED TO DREAM!! That's why i buy Gefell and not Neumann.. Their stuff is a lot closer to the original products than Neumann is today, especially the capsules. Sennheiser swears they haven't changed the way the U87 is made but too many folks find the "post-sennheiser" U87 to be drastically inferior to the "pre-sennheiser" era mics.. Who knows. I haven't heard enough of either to matter. I have my Gefells and I plan on more in the future.
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Post by Ward on Oct 18, 2013 11:00:41 GMT -6
You and I both, Svart. I own a few old Neumanns from Gefell factory as well as some newer ones.
You can quote me on this: The real sound of neumann is to have bite without bark
And to me, Senn-Neumanns bark a lot more than they bite. The Gefell-Neumanns still sound right.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2013 17:17:33 GMT -6
Auditioned a Gefell today, and you're right, the Gefell resembles a Neumann U&7, but with a cleaner low end and no harshness on the first transient. The Gefell did have plenty of bite, but not a crackle on loud inputs, and a bigger bottom. Much better than the U87's I've heard lately, and it cost $1,000 less !
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 18, 2013 17:44:46 GMT -6
The Lucas mics look great...think they've been out for 3 or 4 years, though...
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Post by popmann on Oct 18, 2013 18:40:12 GMT -6
New UM70Ts MICS aren't really better than Neumann. Just different. Now, the OLD ones with transformers? Those I think BEAT an old OR new U87 pretty handily. But, they have the same issue as Neumann in terms of old vs new. At almost the same time frame (some point in the 80s)...it was when Senheiser bought Neumann, buy I don't know what happened with Gefell.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2013 19:48:16 GMT -6
I was just using sound memory. I was in the middle of the floor of the AES convention, so my saying I "auditioned" it, is somewhat of an overstatement. I was mainly saying my first impression was that I thought the Gefelll I heard and the U87 were quite similar, but the Geffell did a couple of things better , and in my opinion, not different, better. Popmann, I've enjoyed and participated in your posts, but you do have a way if stating things as if yours is the last word.
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