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Post by svart on Oct 10, 2013 11:02:37 GMT -6
I want to see a 1u rack with 4x hard limiters like the hardware L1-L3, for 500$. Nothing fancy, just a couple knobs and some simple meters. Just about the only plugin I use these days is the L1 to get backup instruments up to a certain level when I run out of primary outboard compressors. I just don't care for the latency of plug-ins (even when compensated) or the lack of analog mojo.
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 12:45:07 GMT -6
a look ahead limiter is able to do what it does because it "cheats" by looking ahead in the buffer at what's coming and dynamically adjusts it's attack/release to the coming peak....the hardware L2 is just as latent as the plug in I do believe. Maybe moreso, since there's also going to be 1-2ms of ADA tripping.
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Post by svart on Oct 10, 2013 14:49:14 GMT -6
Well, a dedicated processor generally is polling while doing a single job. A computer processor is threaded and has tons of interrupts to deal with, and therefor will always add more latency than any dedicated design, unless that design is just poor. Apples and oranges.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 10, 2013 15:04:05 GMT -6
Well, a dedicated processor generally is polling while doing a single job. A computer processor is threaded and has tons of interrupts to deal with, and therefor will always add more latency than any dedicated design, unless that design is just poor. Apples and oranges. Hey svart, what speed does signal travel in most hardware circuits? 15,000 or 150,000 mps or something? can't imagine general computer latency being anywhere in the vicinity of even the slow 15,000mps, but then again, i could be an idiot lol!
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 15:13:41 GMT -6
Are you thinking the hardware L2 is analog? It's not.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 10, 2013 15:34:49 GMT -6
Are you thinking the hardware L2 is analog? It's not. Check the part where i said "i could be an idiot" lol, i saw la2a in my tiny brain, sorry.
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Post by svart on Oct 10, 2013 15:35:00 GMT -6
The fastest an electrical signal can move on an ideal trace is 186,280 Miles per second, otherwise called "the speed of light".
If you had a transmitter that could operate at the speed of light, then the propagation delay on an actual trace is affected by the dialectric constant of the PCB material and it's parasitics.
I deal with FR4 pcb material most of the time, so it's dialectric constant (Er) is around 4.0. If you had a transmitter that could work at the speed of light, then the square root of the dialectric constant would be your effective distance traveled per second.
In this case, it's 186280 miles/second x 63360 inches in a mile for 11802700800 inches/second. 11802700800 inches/second divided by sqrt/4= 5901350400 inches/second. Turn this into something more readable, becomes 5.9 inches/nanosecond, which is roughly half the speed of light. The nanosecond is also called the "light-foot" since 1ns is how long it takes light to travel 1 foot.
In any case, the trace's propagation delay is negligible. What is really the gating factor is the slew rate of the analog input components so that no signal is lost between input of the device and the input of the A/D, but generally these parts have no measurable propagation delay, the A/D only suffers by working at the clock frequency. What is also important is the sample rate of the A/D, however that is generally constant. The only part that is left is the processor, which can either be constant in it's processing of the datastream from the A/D or it can be threaded with interrupts which means that it only pays attention to the data from the A/D when it's told to do so.
As with any other computer program, you know that sometimes having a bunch of windows open can slow down games and other things. this is because everything else that is running is requesting CPU time for various tasks. Kernel threads and other low level systems have priority and will essentially "tell" non essential programs to wait until later.
Due to this, most plug ins have specific amounts of time that are designed into worst-case scenarios. So while the operation might actually take 1ns(same as 1GHz), the worst case time to get results might be 100ns(0.1ms) to 500000ns(50ms).
This is all while a dedicated processor might be running at 100Mhz, which is about 10ns. However, by being dedicated, the likelyhood of long delays is pretty much eradicated.
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 15:56:08 GMT -6
Waves newer MaxxBCL Hardware unit:
Latency (in samples): Digital to Digital: 133 @44.1, 48kHz, 261 @88.2, 96kHz Analog to Digital: 176 @44.1, 48kHz, 301 @88.2, 96kHz Digital to Analog: 182 @44.1, 48kHz, 313 @88.2, 96kHz Analog to Analog: 225 @44.1, 48kHz, 353 @88.2, 96kHz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 10, 2013 18:11:07 GMT -6
After this page, I'm wishing I could download this info direct to my brain. It's great to have some cats here who know their shit though.
Something simple to add to my wish list, a guitar amp that sounds as good as a Blankenship Leeds 21 for under a grand.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 10, 2013 20:42:16 GMT -6
A killer 500 format de esser in complete DIY kit! Guys I'm as analog as anyone, but I can't see how a de esser can gat much better than the Fab Filter d sss. And the price is right! MJB, I've heard lots of rave reviews about that Ross Martin from guys who know what theyre doing. Where there's smoke there's usually fire. I'd give it a shot. I guarantee it would be a step up from the Apollo without even hearing it.
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 20:45:20 GMT -6
You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see Universal Audio (only because they happen to own all the IP to do it NOW) build a stand alone DAW. Having just sold my Akai I used for a decade--this is what it would take for me to pay their heavy asking price for their plug ins. Actual closed solution. A box that I can count on to have digital hardware latency (sub couple ms)....think about it--they already own the plug in models of the classic hardware, have plenty of experience making great preamps...own the IP for the 2192-still considered one of the best converters in history...just a box you buy that takes care of all a project studio needs. It's time. The analog models aren't getting better. There's no disk bottleneck for track count or need for fancy RAID arrays-basically, the paradigm of the audio DAW is mature. So, now let's make it bulletproof and simple to buy/set up. Transparency be damned. Sound good. Musical. CLASSIC. Make the track arm button have a couple colors--off, on, and on+tape. Why have to insert tape plug ins and mess with biasing? C'mon. Globally set the bias to whatever you like and let's roll.
No drum replacement. No virtual instruments. No third party plug ins. Just a machine with a nice UI--both physical and via LCD...that routes and acts like a virtualized "vintage studio".
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 10, 2013 22:17:52 GMT -6
Thanks cowboy, I'll have a good look around at AES before buying anything, but I do have my thoughts on that Russ Martin D/A and will look into it when the timing's right.
Kind of a cool idea popmann.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 10, 2013 22:29:48 GMT -6
I'd like to see an outboard, high quality hp/lp filter box in banks of 8 for a decent price. I'm probably going to build the harrison ford filter box, it's not cheap, but supposed to have a ton of vibe harrison 32 style?
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Post by mobeach on Oct 11, 2013 4:42:28 GMT -6
I'd like to see some affordable alternatives to Open Labs Miko LXD and the like.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 11, 2013 8:00:08 GMT -6
I just want a Burl Bomber A/D for under $500, that's all... for now For sure I'll look into the Russ Martin, but it'll be a month or two until I consider buying anything anyway.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 12, 2013 23:33:51 GMT -6
I'd like to see something on par with a Shadow Hills Mastering compressor within reach of my budget. That one purchase would nearly blow my spending for the year but I crave a great mastering comp. And I don't mean just a stereo comp, I mean a beast that puts the thwack on shit.
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Post by lolo on Oct 13, 2013 2:50:55 GMT -6
You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see Universal Audio (only because they happen to own all the IP to do it NOW) build a stand alone DAW. Having just sold my Akai I used for a decade--this is what it would take for me to pay their heavy asking price for their plug ins. Actual closed solution. A box that I can count on to have digital hardware latency (sub couple ms)....think about it--they already own the plug in models of the classic hardware, have plenty of experience making great preamps...own the IP for the 2192-still considered one of the best converters in history...just a box you buy that takes care of all a project studio needs. It's time. The analog models aren't getting better. There's no disk bottleneck for track count or need for fancy RAID arrays-basically, the paradigm of the audio DAW is mature. So, now let's make it bulletproof and simple to buy/set up. Transparency be damned. Sound good. Musical. CLASSIC. Make the track arm button have a couple colors--off, on, and on+tape. Why have to insert tape plug ins and mess with biasing? C'mon. Globally set the bias to whatever you like and let's roll. No drum replacement. No virtual instruments. No third party plug ins. Just a machine with a nice UI--both physical and via LCD...that routes and acts like a virtualized "vintage studio". I was thinking the same. Or maybe a Slate DAW. VCC build into every channel. Killer eq on every channel etc....
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Post by unit7 on Oct 13, 2013 6:27:02 GMT -6
A killer 500 format de esser in complete DIY kit! Guys I'm as analog as anyone, but I can't see how a de esser can gat much better than the Fab Filter d sss. And the price is right! MJB, I've heard lots of rave reviews about that Ross Martin from guys who know what theyre doing. Where there's smoke there's usually fire. I'd give it a shot. I guarantee it would be a step up from the Apollo without even hearing it. Great, got two de ess advisssesss from this thread only. Knew about the fab filter but never heard it. Time for demo! cowboycoalminer Cowboy, saw that you mention the Shadow Hills MC. Have you heard it? I've got the limited edition. Haven't played with it that much yet, but for 'thwack' I think there are better options. Also, I've heard from a couple of guys saying that the Vandergraph compares pretty well. One of them traded in the Vandergraph for the MC and though he love the MC, he misses the VG.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 10:36:36 GMT -6
I would love a room to record in. like, a real room with wooden walls, that would be big enough to track a jazz trio or quartet with( full 6' grand, upright bass, drumset, horn). a room that i owned as part of my house. I'm good on the gear front. i'm just still stuck in a bedroom.
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Post by mobeach on Oct 13, 2013 13:54:19 GMT -6
I mean a beast that puts the thwack on shit. Mr Spock would be confused on that one..
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 13, 2013 15:24:59 GMT -6
I would love a room to record in. like, a real room with wooden walls, that would be big enough to track a jazz trio or quartet with( full 6' grand, upright bass, drumset, horn). a room that i owned as part of my house. I'm good on the gear front. i'm just still stuck in a bedroom. I wouldn't fret too much though, your still making great sounding music in a bedroom.
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 13, 2013 15:37:55 GMT -6
Cheap 4 channel convolution reverb unit that I could upload impulses to via USB.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 22:16:33 GMT -6
Yeah, but you don't get that vibe that you get from a nice live room, you know? There's clothes and junk lying around that you gotta move to make room for the mic stands, and find the spot on the floor that doesn't squeak when you stand on it lol. Stuff like that..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 13, 2013 23:53:38 GMT -6
I'm adding a capsule upgrade to ny Blackspade U17 to my list. I wouldn't mind a monitor as good as the Focal Solo6 Be for $1.500.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2013 0:18:20 GMT -6
Yeah, but you don't get that vibe that you get from a nice live room, you know? There's clothes and junk lying around that you gotta move to make room for the mic stands, and find the spot on the floor that doesn't squeak when you stand on it lol. Stuff like that.. a few pairs of levi's on the floor serves as an awesome midrange absorber, and how about a heavily quilted mattress as a bass trap?
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