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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2015 8:24:45 GMT -6
One thing I do notice about software verbs is that they sometimes don't sound like part of the sound, they sound like something that is in addition to it. If that makes any sense. Now, I'm not so sure that makes a huge difference when everything is packed in the mix, but is that the big draw? I realize something like Bricasti has a billion times the processing power and shit like that, but what about cheaper options?
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2015 8:27:17 GMT -6
I've got a big room in my house with 18-20 foot ceilings. Sometimes I'm tempted to just set up a speaker out of the way and two mics and have it as my own little chamber.
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Post by levon on Nov 17, 2015 8:33:44 GMT -6
I've done just that. Reamped dry drums in the attic and recorded the ambience. Reamped a harmonica in my bathroom. Try it, even if it sounds bad after all, it's still fun to do it.
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Post by henge on Nov 17, 2015 10:28:11 GMT -6
Johnkenn interested in how this sounds...
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2015 10:33:31 GMT -6
We all need at least 1 Bricasti. Many of us need 3.
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Post by popmann on Nov 17, 2015 10:36:49 GMT -6
Funny you phrase it that way--I bought the Kurzweil effects after getting a KDFX loaded board and during my initial sound design on in realized "these samples are shit"....but, the sounds are good--because they were doing so much cabinet modeling and saturation and ambience with the FX that didn't sound like "reverb"--it put the shitty EP into a cabinet and and little room---they became part OF the sound. I bought a Rumour (reverb only) and immediately started saving for a KSP8.
I've never found software reverb that sound as good. Tape delay either--but, a number come close enough for rock and roll. And mind you it was NEVER good as lush long reverbs.....ala Lexicon. I never cared for it's plates and halls--all small/medium studio rooms. Back when I was making a big deal about this--this is what I was saying--it's easy to get a big lush Lexi style reverb in software--because that's the "name" (and thus sound) everyone was gunning for...everyone who'd never used a Lexicon wanted a Lexicon because it was "the best". It wasn't. It was what it was--an "effect reverb"--so, when you "hear reverb" on a recording of the last 30-40 years, it's likely a Lexicon. Ie--George Michael or Enya vocals is always the sort of archetype in my mind--the lush long pillowy swirly EFFECT. 80s snare/toms. But, the sense of space being created digitally, people don't "hear as reverb" and Lexi was mostly terrible at...it could never get out of the way or cause any kind of 3d depth....which is why they ruled for vocals. The LAST thing you want is to push your lead vocalist back into the room....Lexi being "separate from the sound" allowed you to put reverb on a vocal--slather it, even, and not have the vocal move backwards away from the listener.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2015 12:57:57 GMT -6
interesting! Thanks, Tim
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Post by mobeach on Nov 17, 2015 14:06:02 GMT -6
We all need at least 1 Bricasti. Many of us need 3. And some of us will always have an M-One XL. I don't care though, it works for me!
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 17, 2015 14:17:08 GMT -6
Yeah it's more just to save me CPU space if I'm working on a project on my portable rig and someone wants to hear some nice reverb. I should really set it up when I'm working with my tower too, but I need to go buy rack strips.
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Post by popmann on Nov 17, 2015 14:40:53 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm feeling the limits of my elderly PC after retiring the hardware FX to pay bills. So, there's a functional advantage to hardware FX, too. Not to mention what a PIA it is to try to mix analog using aux sends and returns as hardware inserts in the DAW for software reverb/delays. I mean--you can do it, but talk about some weird routing. I knew when I sold them, it meant I would probably never go back to analog mixing. The Univesal Audio Oceanway room/mic simulation plug in REALLY made me want to demo a UAD2 system. The angle of the mic emulation I found interesting because in doing sound design (sampler/keys), I find myself using a lot of ambience into mic models....JK, did you demo that? I seem to remember Cowboy loving it, but what from UA does he not love. ....I keed....
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Post by formatcyes on Nov 17, 2015 14:49:09 GMT -6
The hardware reverbs excluding the Bricasti have basically the same code as the software ones your PC has way more horse power than the HW verbs. So what that mean's you like the sound the DA AD impart you could send your software verbs out thru something comp,eq, etc and see if that helps.
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Post by formatcyes on Nov 17, 2015 14:52:23 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm feeling the limits of my elderly PC after retiring the hardware FX to pay bills. So, there's a functional advantage to hardware FX, too. Not to mention what a PIA it is to try to mix analog using aux sends and returns as hardware inserts in the DAW for software reverb/delays. I mean--you can do it, but talk about some weird routing. I knew when I sold them, it meant I would probably never go back to analog mixing. The Univesal Audio Oceanway room/mic simulation plug in REALLY made me want to demo a UAD2 system. The angle of the mic emulation I found interesting because in doing sound design (sampler/keys), I find myself using a lot of ambience into mic models....JK, did you demo that? I seem to remember Cowboy loving it, but what from UA does he not love. ....I keed.... I thought the consensus was the hofa verb did a better job at space's than UA oceanway maybe someone with both can confirm/deny this.
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Post by wiz on Nov 17, 2015 15:10:03 GMT -6
I have been busting my ass trying to make everything and anything sound in the same league, near the league, oh god please let this plug in be the one!!!! 8) as the Bricasti...
its fruitless...
if you like what this goddamn box does, and I do.... you are done...
I am starting the RGO chapter of Bricasti Anonymous...
Hi I am Wiz, and I am a Bricastiaholic
cheers
Wiz
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2015 15:55:55 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2015 18:18:09 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm feeling the limits of my elderly PC after retiring the hardware FX to pay bills. So, there's a functional advantage to hardware FX, too. Not to mention what a PIA it is to try to mix analog using aux sends and returns as hardware inserts in the DAW for software reverb/delays. I mean--you can do it, but talk about some weird routing. I knew when I sold them, it meant I would probably never go back to analog mixing. The Univesal Audio Oceanway room/mic simulation plug in REALLY made me want to demo a UAD2 system. The angle of the mic emulation I found interesting because in doing sound design (sampler/keys), I find myself using a lot of ambience into mic models....JK, did you demo that? I seem to remember Cowboy loving it, but what from UA does he not love. ....I keed.... Yeah. I did. And while it's good, I didn't think it was anything I couldn't do with other reverbs. But maybe I'm not using it correctly.
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Post by odyssey76 on Nov 17, 2015 18:29:23 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. Does this do all the effects well? (Verb, chorus, delay, etc.) This is interesting and affordable....you got me curious.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2015 18:47:46 GMT -6
I really need to try a Bricasti again. Although it might be one of those things I just can't justify in the whole scheme of things.
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Post by mobeach on Nov 17, 2015 19:28:54 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. Does this do all the effects well? (Verb, chorus, delay, etc.) This is interesting and affordable....you got me curious. Yes, I have the XL which has an additional 100 presets than the standard M-One, delay, chorus, a tweed spring phaser I like, chorused ambience is nice too. Some flangers, expanders, Mostly reverbs though. www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr02/articles/tcmonexl.asp
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 17, 2015 20:20:42 GMT -6
Software verb sometimes sounds disconected from the source if I sum it ITB, using my desk the newer plugs can compete with ease with my yamahas, pcm 90 or mpx1... but nothing beats tracking real instruments in a real space ..... I sometimes use our bathroom as reverb chamber GF freaks out ....
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Post by rowmat on Nov 17, 2015 23:46:42 GMT -6
We have a Lexicon 480L which gets used on nearly everything. If we need more verbs than the 480's dual processors can provide I'll use the 480 to print any additional 'wet only' verbs to their own tracks in Reaper. However I'm still toying with the thought of a Bricasti. Over Christmas I'm going to commence an DIY EMT 140 style plate reverb build. I've located all the materials including the .55mm cold rolled steel plate. The only item that is posing some difficulty is the driver. I'm currently experimenting with some speakers which I may end up having to 'frankenstein' into an EMT style driver. NOTE: Of course, if you think about it, hardware Bricasti's and Lexicon 480L's are really software effects processors inside a standalone box with some analog I/O's. An actual acoustic space, chamber etc, could be considered a real 'hardware' reverb while a real EMT plate or other mechanical verb is a hardware reverb simulator.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 18, 2015 0:13:03 GMT -6
We have a Lexicon 480L which gets used on nearly everything. If we need more verbs than the 480's dual processors can provide I'll use the 480 to print any additional 'wet only' verbs to their own tracks in Reaper. However I'm still toying with the thought of a Bricasti. Over Christmas I'm going to commence an DIY EMT 140 style plate reverb build. I've located all the materials including the .55mm cold rolled steel plate. The only item that is posing some difficulty is the driver. I'm currently experimenting with some speakers which I may end up having to 'frankenstein' into an EMT style driver. NOTE: Of course, if you think about it, hardware Bricasti's and Lexicon 480L's are really software effects processors inside a standalone box with some analog I/O's. An actual acoustic space, chamber etc, could be considered a real 'hardware' reverb while a real EMT plate or other mechanical verb is a hardware reverb simulator. If u search the DIY section, u should find some info on plate drivers, I believe Jim Williams recommends something somewhere in there. A couple real plates are on my list, cold rolled and stainless as well.
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Post by rocinante on Nov 18, 2015 3:20:43 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. I'm intrigued by this too. Is the M-1 comparable to anything not cheap? In other words; Is it steps above a Lexicon mpx-×××but not quite an Eventide? Can you get Eventide or pcm quality effects from it? I've read of more than a few hot shot producers who used Finalizers
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 18, 2015 3:32:25 GMT -6
Mine isn't the XL, which does very long reverb times - apparently the algorithms are better than the M-One and, of course, that's most apparent on small room sounds.
It has dynamics processing type stuff as well as the usual chorus, flange, phase, pitch shift.
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Post by mobeach on Nov 18, 2015 5:51:13 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. I'm intrigued by this too. Is the M-1 comparable to anything not cheap? In other words; Is it steps above a Lexicon mpx-×××but not quite an Eventide? Can you get Eventide or pcm quality effects from it? I've read of more than a few hot shot producers who used Finalizers I posted a SOS article on the unit about 4 posts above this.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2015 7:52:05 GMT -6
I'm intrigued by this too. Is the M-1 comparable to anything not cheap? In other words; Is it steps above a Lexicon mpx-×××but not quite an Eventide? Can you get Eventide or pcm quality effects from it? I've read of more than a few hot shot producers who used Finalizers I posted a SOS article on the unit about 4 posts above this. I grabbed one on eBay last night. Looking forward to checking it out.
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