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Post by mrholmes on Nov 18, 2015 9:00:08 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. I'm intrigued by this too. Is the M-1 comparable to anything not cheap? In other words; Is it steps above a Lexicon mpx-×××but not quite an Eventide? Can you get Eventide or pcm quality effects from it? I've read of more than a few hot shot producers who used Finalizers Be carefull the mpx 1 sounds by far not bad contains a lexi chip 2.
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2015 9:16:47 GMT -6
I posted a SOS article on the unit about 4 posts above this. I grabbed one on eBay last night. Looking forward to checking it out. I went on ebay and grabbed a broken one last night. If you can find a broken one, more likely than not, it's a single cap gone bad. They are notorious for this single part failure..
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2015 9:20:54 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. Does this do all the effects well? (Verb, chorus, delay, etc.) This is interesting and affordable....you got me curious. I've had a handful of "cheap" reverbs, and a few of the supposed "gems" like the Behringer reverb that people go on and on about (that sounded like grainy shit, honestly).. I have a couple old lexicons that are OK, but the TC m-one (both XL and non-XL) just have a more realistic and natural sound to them. And yeah, folks will say "but it's just software, just like a plugin", but it's software running on dedicated DSP chips in a box that doesn't affect my CPU usage, and can be had for just as cheap as a decent reverb plugin..
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2015 9:31:12 GMT -6
Tc m-one. Sold the rest of my supposed "good" cheap ones. I'm intrigued by this too. Is the M-1 comparable to anything not cheap? In other words; Is it steps above a Lexicon mpx-×××but not quite an Eventide? Can you get Eventide or pcm quality effects from it? I've read of more than a few hot shot producers who used Finalizers I'd put some of the effects up there with the middle PCM series stuff. The settings aren't nearly as editable as the lexicon stuff, but it's good enough to be useful.
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2015 9:32:51 GMT -6
I was looking at an interview with David Bendeth on something unrelated and remembered I saw a blub about reverbs..
"Reverbs Pretty much all of my effects are hardware, and I have everything hard-wired on my console, so I can solo all my reverbs. I love that, because I can hear what’s going on in the background of the song. I can hear how wet everything is, and I can govern myself accordingly. It’s so easy to just put a mix into “swim” mode – I do these things as tastefully as I can, so they’re not taking over the song.
Of course very studio has a Lexicon 480L, which I love. I’m not using it on the drums, just on the vocals. On drums I’m using an AMS reverb, an SBX 90, and I’m using Fireworx, which is a TC Electronics piece. I’ve got two PCM 42’s, which again is pretty standard, and I’m also using a Publison Infernal Machine 90, which is a very rare piece.
Bendeth’s beloved Publison Infernal Machine was a key reverb. That Publison is interesting — the French built it, and it was the first unit you could ever use to sample in 16-bit, so it’s this big old thing. It’s a very rich reverb. It sounds like a plate – you’re able to push things on it, so it sounds atmospheric, very deep and dark, with a lot of depth to it.
And I’m also using another Lexicon reverb, a 200. It’s a double rack unit, and it’s really old.
Sometimes I’ll do something really stupid, like plug the SBX 90 into a Lexicon. That creates reverb on your reverb — it just puts it in a different place sonically.
Delays For delays I’m going with the PCM42s, at a quarter-and-a-half, and I’m going with a plugin that’s creating a dotted 8th note with a half, and obviously just chaining the lengths. Then I’m EQing the reverbs on the way back, so that they don’t’ get too messy."
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Post by mobeach on Nov 18, 2015 10:52:28 GMT -6
I posted a SOS article on the unit about 4 posts above this. I grabbed one on eBay last night. Looking forward to checking it out. Cool, I know you won't regret it, the presets are very easy to alter and save. I also have the TC D-Two, both are low budget good quality.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 18, 2015 11:26:49 GMT -6
I'll keep monitoring this thread because I respect people's opinions here. But I remain somewhat of a skeptic when it comes to old hardware reverbs sounding better than a great plugin.
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Post by mobeach on Nov 18, 2015 13:59:28 GMT -6
I'll keep monitoring this thread because I respect people's opinions here. But I remain somewhat of a skeptic when it comes to old hardware reverbs sounding better than a great plugin. And I'm skeptical about buying plugins when I have hardware
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2015 14:02:48 GMT -6
I have some bricasti impulses that sound wonderful. I can't run more than one instance before the verb program is hogging my CPU. I can have 75 tracks of 24/88 or I can have 24 tracks of 24/88 with two verbs running bricasti IRs before I start having issues..
So I run hardware.
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Post by mobeach on Nov 18, 2015 16:14:49 GMT -6
I have some plugins that came with Reaper and Sonar and that's it. They're useful if I want something subtle, the TC works well if I want a little more.
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Post by rowmat on Nov 18, 2015 16:19:09 GMT -6
We have a Lexicon 480L which gets used on nearly everything. If we need more verbs than the 480's dual processors can provide I'll use the 480 to print any additional 'wet only' verbs to their own tracks in Reaper. However I'm still toying with the thought of a Bricasti. Over Christmas I'm going to commence an DIY EMT 140 style plate reverb build. I've located all the materials including the .55mm cold rolled steel plate. The only item that is posing some difficulty is the driver. I'm currently experimenting with some speakers which I may end up having to 'frankenstein' into an EMT style driver. NOTE: Of course, if you think about it, hardware Bricasti's and Lexicon 480L's are really software effects processors inside a standalone box with some analog I/O's. An actual acoustic space, chamber etc, could be considered a real 'hardware' reverb while a real EMT plate or other mechanical verb is a hardware reverb simulator. If u search the DIY section, u should find some info on plate drivers, I believe Jim Williams recommends something somewhere in there. A couple real plates are on my list, cold rolled and stainless as well. Thanks, I had a look but couldn't find anything specific about DIY plate drivers apart from the "solid drive" types which add too much mass to the plate. How far did you progress with your DIY plates?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Nov 18, 2015 17:10:36 GMT -6
If u search the DIY section, u should find some info on plate drivers, I believe Jim Williams recommends something somewhere in there. A couple real plates are on my list, cold rolled and stainless as well. Thanks, I had a look but couldn't find anything specific about DIY plate drivers apart from the "solid drive" types which add too much mass to the plate. How far did you progress with your DIY plates? Why not just glue?epoxy the Solid drive to the frame and then the frame carries the mass?
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Post by rowmat on Nov 18, 2015 17:29:52 GMT -6
Thanks, I had a look but couldn't find anything specific about DIY plate drivers apart from the "solid drive" types which add too much mass to the plate. How far did you progress with your DIY plates? Why not just glue?epoxy the Solid drive to the frame and then the frame carries the mass? Fixing a Solid Drive to the frame, while not loading the plate with mass, won't work. Solid Drives are designed to be in direct contact with the material they are driving. As already stated they are a poor alternative to the original EMT driver (see photo) EMT 140's have the driver magnet assembly mounted on the frame and the coil fixed to the plate. There is no physical contact between the driver magnet and the coil/plate. The coil is in an air gap and driven the same way as most standard permanent magnet loudspeakers. If using piezo pickups they can be fixed directly to the plate as they only weigh a few grams at most and will have little detrimental effect on the operation of the plate. EMT 140 with driver magnet assembly removed. Notice the coil assembly attached to the plate poking through the centre of the driver mounting bracket.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 18, 2015 17:36:26 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm feeling the limits of my elderly PC after retiring the hardware FX to pay bills. So, there's a functional advantage to hardware FX, too. Not to mention what a PIA it is to try to mix analog using aux sends and returns as hardware inserts in the DAW for software reverb/delays. I mean--you can do it, but talk about some weird routing. I knew when I sold them, it meant I would probably never go back to analog mixing. The Univesal Audio Oceanway room/mic simulation plug in REALLY made me want to demo a UAD2 system. The angle of the mic emulation I found interesting because in doing sound design (sampler/keys), I find myself using a lot of ambience into mic models....JK, did you demo that? I seem to remember Cowboy loving it, but what from UA does he not love. ....I keed.... I thought the consensus was the hofa verb did a better job at space's than UA oceanway maybe someone with both can confirm/deny this. I have both. I still prefer the OW to Hofa for room. This is one of the few things Randy and I differ on taste wise. But with any room verb, a dab will do ya. If I could only have one UA plug it would be this one. The rest I can take or leave. The Hofa does plate extremely well. And for hall, the Relab 480 is still king for me. Since this is a hardware thread, I owned a Bricasti briefly. Was it better? Yes. For 3k bones more? That's a big hell no. At least for a demo guy like me. If I worked a studio full time I'd have one though.
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Post by rocinante on Nov 18, 2015 21:20:17 GMT -6
Dont get me wrong I like and use lexi. I use a microverb for that matter. Well two settings occasionally anyways. But with the H3000 I noticed the difference in quality immediately compared to my lexis. As for me, I too use hardware verbs for the dsp and its far easier to find a singers sweet spot using hardware verbs. Especially when they aren't feeling comfortable. Drowning them in reverb seems to make them come out of their shell. I've my eye on evilbay. Thanks again gents, Its your trustworthy experiences and opinions that have me returning to this great forum. And spending my dollars on something useful instead of the latest GAS rage.
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noego
New Member
Microphones put you there!
Posts: 11
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Post by noego on Nov 18, 2015 22:30:36 GMT -6
Hello. This is my first post!
Old guy new member . I am Lou. I have had a songwriter demo studio up in Canada for a long long time ...since about 87, and thought I would come in and see if old dogs can learn new tricks. :-)
I just want to comment on the Bricasti as well. I now own 3 units and the controller. There is nothing like it out there in my opinion. I also have in my collection built over the years a Lexicon 480L, 300, PCM 91,81, 70, LXP II ...
I love hardware verbs over software . I have tried quite a few software verbs and here is my take. There is no interaction I find with software reverbs. Not just convolution even the emulating algorithm style as well. It stands to reason when there is no analogue I/O in software, so I don't think they take the time to sample a thousand input levels and output levels it is just a mathematical equation... therefore it doesn't respond any different other then it's louder or it's quieter. I also find if you feed older digital verbs with AES like the 300 or 480L you don't have that element either other than the AD on board.. No heat . No variables . I am sure some of you may disagree with me but it is what I find missing with a lot of plugins. Not just verbs. Amplitude gives different or non linear results. That is what makes a 300 different then an M7. Besides the programs written inside. I think your moderator said it best when he said ( paraphrasing) being a part or not being a part of the sound. The best reverbs are not in the way. I use reverbs to design all kinds of rooms and Bricasti has that task down. Fix up your room dead just once and add a Studio A,B,C setting from the Bricasti and magic happens to your mix before playing with long tails and vocal/string halls or plates.
Hope that wasn't to lengthy for my first post.
Lou
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 22:48:49 GMT -6
Great to hear from someone who's had his hands on these things for so long. Welcome aboard noego.
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Post by rocinante on Nov 18, 2015 23:58:11 GMT -6
Noego, Not to lengthly at all. I'd say spot on. Welcome aboard.
Dylan
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Nov 19, 2015 0:18:29 GMT -6
Hello. This is my first post! Old guy new member . I am Lou. I have had a songwriter demo studio up in Canada for a long long time ...since about 87, and thought I would come in and see if old dogs can learn new tricks. :-) I just want to comment on the Bricasti as well. I now own 3 units and the controller. There is nothing like it out there in my opinion. I also have in my collection built over the years a Lexicon 480L, 300, PCM 91,81, 70, LXP II ... I love hardware verbs over software . I have tried quite a few software verbs and here is my take. There is no interaction I find with software reverbs. Not just convolution even the emulating algorithm style as well. It stands to reason when there is no analogue I/O in software, so I don't think they take the time to sample a thousand input levels and output levels it is just a mathematical equation... therefore it doesn't respond any different other then it's louder or it's quieter. I also find if you feed older digital verbs with AES like the 300 or 480L you don't have that element either other than the AD on board.. No heat . No variables . I am sure some of you may disagree with me but it is what I find missing with a lot of plugins. Not just verbs. Amplitude gives different or non linear results. That is what makes a 300 different then an M7. Besides the programs written inside. I think your moderator said it best when he said ( paraphrasing) being a part or not being a part of the sound. The best reverbs are not in the way. I use reverbs to design all kinds of rooms and Bricasti has that task down. Fix up your room dead just once and add a Studio A,B,C setting from the Bricasti and magic happens to your mix before playing with long tails and vocal/string halls or plates. Hope that wasn't to lengthy for my first post. Lou Welcome to RGO And quit makeing want a Bricasti !
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 19, 2015 6:02:20 GMT -6
In the old days sometimes we'd slave some portable machines to timecode and play back a mix in a particularly good sounding space (church or whatever) and record the natural reverb. Today with a laptop that would be very easy. There are plenty of great sounding spaces that aren't used that often.
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Post by levon on Nov 19, 2015 6:51:50 GMT -6
In the old days sometimes we'd slave some portable machines to timecode and play back a mix in a particularly good sounding space (church or whatever) and record the natural reverb. Today with a laptop that would be very easy. There are plenty of great sounding spaces that aren't used that often. Exactly. And some of them may be in your own home...
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noego
New Member
Microphones put you there!
Posts: 11
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Post by noego on Nov 19, 2015 9:16:00 GMT -6
Yep I do remember doing this. The thing is you also send your bass tracks and drums to the same place and at least those two instruments these days are treated somewhat different.Maybe if you eq out the low end. Especially the bass.In my opinion. Now who's to say individual tracks can't be sent to rooms? Not much different then reamping guitars. Brilliant. Unless you have Bricasti's rooms . They are killer.
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Post by henge on Nov 19, 2015 10:30:29 GMT -6
Hello. This is my first post! Old guy new member . I am Lou. I have had a songwriter demo studio up in Canada for a long long time ...since about 87, and thought I would come in and see if old dogs can learn new tricks. :-) I just want to comment on the Bricasti as well. I now own 3 units and the controller. There is nothing like it out there in my opinion. I also have in my collection built over the years a Lexicon 480L, 300, PCM 91,81, 70, LXP II ... I love hardware verbs over software . I have tried quite a few software verbs and here is my take. There is no interaction I find with software reverbs. Not just convolution even the emulating algorithm style as well. It stands to reason when there is no analogue I/O in software, so I don't think they take the time to sample a thousand input levels and output levels it is just a mathematical equation... therefore it doesn't respond any different other then it's louder or it's quieter. I also find if you feed older digital verbs with AES like the 300 or 480L you don't have that element either other than the AD on board.. No heat . No variables . I am sure some of you may disagree with me but it is what I find missing with a lot of plugins. Not just verbs. Amplitude gives different or non linear results. That is what makes a 300 different then an M7. Besides the programs written inside. I think your moderator said it best when he said ( paraphrasing) being a part or not being a part of the sound. The best reverbs are not in the way. I use reverbs to design all kinds of rooms and Bricasti has that task down. Fix up your room dead just once and add a Studio A,B,C setting from the Bricasti and magic happens to your mix before playing with long tails and vocal/string halls or plates. Hope that wasn't to lengthy for my first post. Lou Welcome noego ! Nice to see more fellow Canadians on RGO. Your gonna love this place.;-)
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Post by mobeach on Nov 19, 2015 10:38:24 GMT -6
Hello. This is my first post! Old guy new member . I am Lou. I have had a songwriter demo studio up in Canada for a long long time ...since about 87, and thought I would come in and see if old dogs can learn new tricks. :-) I just want to comment on the Bricasti as well. I now own 3 units and the controller. There is nothing like it out there in my opinion. I also have in my collection built over the years a Lexicon 480L, 300, PCM 91,81, 70, LXP II ... I love hardware verbs over software . I have tried quite a few software verbs and here is my take. There is no interaction I find with software reverbs. Not just convolution even the emulating algorithm style as well. It stands to reason when there is no analogue I/O in software, so I don't think they take the time to sample a thousand input levels and output levels it is just a mathematical equation... therefore it doesn't respond any different other then it's louder or it's quieter. I also find if you feed older digital verbs with AES like the 300 or 480L you don't have that element either other than the AD on board.. No heat . No variables . I am sure some of you may disagree with me but it is what I find missing with a lot of plugins. Not just verbs. Amplitude gives different or non linear results. That is what makes a 300 different then an M7. Besides the programs written inside. I think your moderator said it best when he said ( paraphrasing) being a part or not being a part of the sound. The best reverbs are not in the way. I use reverbs to design all kinds of rooms and Bricasti has that task down. Fix up your room dead just once and add a Studio A,B,C setting from the Bricasti and magic happens to your mix before playing with long tails and vocal/string halls or plates. Hope that wasn't to lengthy for my first post. Lou Welcome noego ! Nice to see more fellow Canadians on RGO. Your gonna love this place.;-) Not if he's a Canadiens fan
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Post by henge on Nov 19, 2015 11:32:18 GMT -6
Welcome noego ! Nice to see more fellow Canadians on RGO. Your gonna love this place.;-) Not if he's a Canadiens fan Lol...true, so true...
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