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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 18, 2015 9:02:27 GMT -6
It takes just as long to check a bounce as it takes to record a mix to another track in real time plus you can use hardware in the mix and punch in and out on any section you need to change.
Pro Tools having been first makes the bar for replacing it higher.
The sale of software by U.S. public corporations has changed due to securities case law. Upgrades now have to be free, full price or part of a subscription service. Apple and Microsoft didn't switch to free OS upgrades out of the goodness of their hearts. Avid's change pretty much mirrors what Microsoft has done with Office 365.
The latest twist is that Avid has started charging users for point releases under a support but no upgrades plan for half price. You can also choose a half price upgrades but no support plan. They are obviously trying to push everybody into 12 exactly the way Microsoft is pushing everybody into windoze 10.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2015 9:35:43 GMT -6
The "support" aspect is a joke anyway, $99 a year seems doable for vanilla, i upgrade every 3 years or so anyway for about the same cost, i might as well do it every year. Randy, the "list of cons" is only from the business side of Avid, i LOVE the way PT is laid out and functions, i'd venture to guess that I get no more random clicks or pops than anyone else on any other platform(I can't remember the last time?), PT is quite stable, my point was the same as your's I think... "listen down a bounced file before you send it off", we gotta make certain it's good to go, and i'm not trusting anything going out until I hear the final clean first.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2015 10:28:49 GMT -6
.33 cents a day is breaking my balls I also laugh at myself !
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2015 10:37:39 GMT -6
can we talk about how long PT has been the Professional studio standard compared to how cubase/logic/Ableton/Dp still aren't? Off line bounce is for people who are braver than myself, i always listen down the bounce as it happens, and after it happens, and that includes stems, it takes a while, but your job is to listen and make sure your DELIVERING un compromised product to your clients, nothing says "I could care less" more to a client than a glitchy off line bounce. I don't know any guys who compose for film that use ProTools. I do. I know many others that do as well. Of course, Logic and DP are strong contenders as well. I prefer PT over DP though for a number of reasons.
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2015 10:41:02 GMT -6
How many times do I have to read on RGO that Protools is the only truly professional DAW, implying that the rest of us that make our living using other DAWs are somehow amateurs? The REALITY is that unless an AE is doing post work, many DAWs do the job equally well, and it's simply a matter of personal preference. It's no different than choosing a Gibson over a Martin. I realize that it's fun to debate gear and that's part of the reason we log on. But there's a rancor and arrogance that comes from some Protools defenders that's insulting to those of us who don't belong to that religion. how about everyone stop posting about their reluctance to try another DAW or their complaints with ProTools and just put in an hour in front of the new DAW? do that for a week, and see what happens. No time for that. Too busy working efficiently. Maybe people can quit telling me to try Cubase or Reaper. LOL
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Post by Randge on Oct 18, 2015 10:51:13 GMT -6
They can't stop working cause that monthly bill will be coming in...
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Post by henge on Oct 18, 2015 11:07:21 GMT -6
how about everyone stop posting about their reluctance to try another DAW or their complaints with ProTools and just put in an hour in front of the new DAW? do that for a week, and see what happens. No time for that. Too busy working efficiently. Maybe people can quit telling me to try Cubase or Reaper. LOL Ha! Nice.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 18, 2015 11:19:36 GMT -6
How many times do I have to read on RGO that Protools is the only truly professional DAW, implying that the rest of us that make our living using other DAWs are somehow amateurs? The REALITY is that unless an AE is doing post work, many DAWs do the job equally well, and it's simply a matter of personal preference. It's no different than choosing a Gibson over a Martin. I realize that it's fun to debate gear and that's part of the reason we log on. But there's a rancor and arrogance that comes from some Protools defenders that's insulting to those of us who don't belong to that religion. I don't think anyone here is trying to imply that someone can't get great results with a DAW other than Pro Tools. Nobody is trying to imply that someone isn't professional because they use another DAW. Pro Tools is just the most widely used DAW in pro studios. The majority of MLB players use Louisville slugger bats. That doesn't mean that another player that uses a Marucci bat isn't a pro, it's just the facts. Basically any PT thread on this board will have a number of users posting responses about why their DAWs are better and we are dumb for sticking with PT. We defend our choice of DAW because it's the most common professional choice or because we know how to run it and don't want to spend the time learning another tool, and we're the bad guys. I've spent time with both Logic and Cubase years ago, but made the decision at the time that Pro Tools was right for me. I recently worked on M57's machine running Logic and was severely slowed down trying to do what I wanted to do. Everything felt foreign. We can't download a demo of Logic (doesn't exist) or Cubase (needs a dongle) to even test these things out if we wanted to.
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Post by M57 on Oct 18, 2015 11:34:36 GMT -6
I recently worked on M57's machine running Logic and was severely slowed down trying to do what I wanted to do. Everything felt foreign. For the record, Jesse's 'slow' is blinding fast by my standards. He was teaching me things about my own DAW as he figured it out on the fly.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2015 11:39:12 GMT -6
don't you hate those "slow"AE's:)
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 18, 2015 11:56:35 GMT -6
How many times do I have to read on RGO that Protools is the only truly professional DAW, implying that the rest of us that make our living using other DAWs are somehow amateurs? The REALITY is that unless an AE is doing post work, many DAWs do the job equally well, and it's simply a matter of personal preference. It's no different than choosing a Gibson over a Martin. I realize that it's fun to debate gear and that's part of the reason we log on. But there's a rancor and arrogance that comes from some Protools defenders that's insulting to those of us who don't belong to that religion. I don't think anyone here is trying to imply that someone can't get great results with a DAW other than Pro Tools. Nobody is trying to imply that someone isn't professional because they use another DAW. Pro Tools is just the most widely used DAW in pro studios. The majority of MLB players use Louisville slugger bats. That doesn't mean that another player that uses a Marucci bat isn't a pro, it's just the facts. Basically any PT thread on this board will have a number of users posting responses about why their DAWs are better and we are dumb for sticking with PT. We defend our choice of DAW because it's the most common professional choice or because we know how to run it and don't want to spend the time learning another tool, and we're the bad guys. I've spent time with both Logic and Cubase years ago, but made the decision at the time that Pro Tools was right for me. I recently worked on M57's machine running Logic and was severely slowed down trying to do what I wanted to do. Everything felt foreign. We can't download a demo of Logic (doesn't exist) or Cubase (needs a dongle) to even test these things out if we wanted to. You're not a "bad guy" for choosing Protools. It doesn't make your more or less of a pro--it's just what works best for you at this moment in time. What happened specifically in this thread is that the OP expressed his frustration with Protools and wrote that maybe he should try Logic. So it's only natural that folks here that use Logic, Cubase, or DP chime in with their own positive experiences. I'm not completely familiar with all that Avid is doing right now, but it seems to be creating a lot of discontent. What I don't understand is that if someone is truly a pro (making a living at it), are the costs associated with using Protools all that prohibitive? If you love Protools and use it daily for your livelihood, why are folks in such an uproar over $99 a year. What am I missing? By the way, you can get a free trail version of Cubase Elements without a dongle for those that are curious. It doesn't give the full picture of Cubase, but it would give insight into how to basically navigate the DAW.
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2015 11:58:36 GMT -6
They can't stop working cause that monthly bill will be coming in... Yup. If that $99 a year is killing ya, better keep hammering your "other" DAW. LOL We're ALL headed to subscriptions. It's the only way these guys can stay in business. Sooner or later, you'll be crying the Cubase subscription plan. :-)
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 18, 2015 12:18:50 GMT -6
They can't stop working cause that monthly bill will be coming in... Yup. If that $99 a year is killing ya, better keep hammering your "other" DAW. LOL We're ALL headed to subscriptions. It's the only way these guys can stay in business. Sooner or later, you'll be crying the Cubase subscription plan. :-) That's very possible. But it's also possible that Logic and Cubase are watching closely the discontent that Avid is creating and will try to avoid subscriptions. (By the way Bill, I've ordered the Silver Bullet and plan to use it in a similar way to yourself.)
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 18, 2015 12:23:52 GMT -6
They can't stop working cause that monthly bill will be coming in... Yup. If that $99 a year is killing ya, better keep hammering your "other" DAW. LOL We're ALL headed to subscriptions. It's the only way these guys can stay in business. Sooner or later, you'll be crying the Cubase subscription plan. :-) Or more likely that the Cubase subscription plan is great.
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Post by b1 on Oct 18, 2015 12:36:29 GMT -6
No subscriptions for this boy, in any form. When I can't produce good enough from old DAWs and hardware, then music production has transcended common sense and usability. You can still record, copy, paste, etc., etc. without the latest release of anything.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2015 12:36:46 GMT -6
Another bit of info that should be easily acquired from Avid's site, but nope! so can anyone clarify something for me...? If i upgrade from PT10 to PT12 for the $99, it says "i have to give up my previous license", does that mean if i decide to bail on the annual $99 annual upgrade, that they will be able to disable my use of PT10 and PT12 all together? or do i get to walk out and use PT10 or PT12 as i ride off into the sunset? shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductDetails?viewState=DetailView&cartID=&sku=%23DYNAPA20003&&store=shop
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Post by b1 on Oct 18, 2015 12:39:53 GMT -6
It's a dark day when Reaper has a subscription in the cloud. Time to pull the plug on the nets and use what's in house...
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2015 12:42:54 GMT -6
apparently yes. avid is confusing the hell out of people with this; different prices, perpetual, subscription , different nested services , different versions of pro tools ; wtf ? I think if you pay the $199 upgrade your license (s) get replaced. I think I have a link to a pro tools expert thread that tries to explain this; want it ?
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2015 12:47:54 GMT -6
apparently yes. avid is confusing the hell out of people with this; different prices, perpetual, subscription , different nested services , different versions of pro tools ; wtf ? I think if you pay the $199 upgrade your license (s) get replaced. I think I have a link to a pro tools expert thread that tries to explain this; want it ? yes please, thanx for doing Avids job for them Matt 8)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2015 12:50:30 GMT -6
With Subscription you own nothing if and are left with nothing if you don't renew. With perpetual you own the asset and what ever updated version you receive via service plan.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2015 12:59:40 GMT -6
Another bit of info that should be easily acquired from Avid's site, but nope! so can anyone clarify something for me...? If i upgrade from PT10 to PT12 for the $99, it says "i have to give up my previous license", does that mean if i decide to bail on the annual $99 annual upgrade, that they will be able to disable my use of PT10 and PT12 all together? or do i get to walk out and use PT10 or PT12 as i ride off into the sunset? shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductDetails?viewState=DetailView&cartID=&sku=%23DYNAPA20003&&store=shopWith Subscription you own nothing if and are left with nothing if you don't renew. With perpetual you own the asset and what ever updated version you receive via service plan. so am i to understand that i get 0 value out of my PT10 ownership toward upgrading to PT12? i see no option for upgrading my PT10 for under what anyone else would pay starting brand new at $599, if this is the case? I'm gone, i've been with PT since the beginning, but enough is enough, I'd like to try the annual thing at $99, but i'd like the option to bow out with what i already owned at least with PT10, it seems they're attempting to take that from me as far as i can tell, unless i'm misunderstanding this? Again, shame on them for not making this absolutely clear and easy to find, dickheads!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2015 13:14:23 GMT -6
Buy into Subscription on a new ilok under another name ! my lic and Ilok are set up on a separate Ilok registered to a disposable Email , I can sell the Ilok acct and email address . AVID Thinks they have eliminated all the wholes, they haven't you just have to be smarter and work a bit harder , find a deal with one of their POS interfaces with full 12 it's the best way to buy in cheap!
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2015 13:35:07 GMT -6
Buy into Subscription on a new ilok under another name ! my lic and Ilok are set up on a separate Ilok registered to a disposable Email , I can sell the Ilok acct and email address . AVID Thinks they have eliminated all the wholes, they haven't you just have to be smarter and work a bit harder , find a deal with one of their POS interfaces with full 12 it's the best way to buy in cheap! for $600? no thanx
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2015 13:36:38 GMT -6
Check your pm
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2015 13:56:20 GMT -6
Yup. If that $99 a year is killing ya, better keep hammering your "other" DAW. LOL We're ALL headed to subscriptions. It's the only way these guys can stay in business. Sooner or later, you'll be crying the Cubase subscription plan. :-) That's very possible. But it's also possible that Logic and Cubase are watching closely the discontent that Avid is creating and will try to avoid subscriptions. (By the way Bill, I've ordered the Silver Bullet and plan to use it in a similar way to yourself.) You may be right, but I don't think so. It's evolution of software, piracy, the economy and how software and developers "work". You see it in word processing, graphic design, OS's, DAW software - pretty much across the board. I don't like it, but I can't change it. Oh, and yeah, I knew that. :-) Thanks and congrats! I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me. Make sure to report back whatever your findings are. Cheers, bp
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