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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2015 14:27:09 GMT -6
What a fugging mess.
My instinct was don't bother with ProTools when I first jumped on board the digital bandwagon three years back, and it's clear I made the right choice.
The quality of just the six compressors alone that Apple gives you Logic X is worth the $200 the entire program costs. The've consistently given free upgrades, and it's an enormously powerful tool when you've spent enough time digging into it.
Compatibility with studios isn't an issue for me, but I can appreciate and I'm sorry to hear all the frustration this dilemma and mistreatment has left some of you with who are so deeply invested, with your time learning it and money buying it, that it seems like there's no way out.
Other than a professional studio that must have Pro Tools available, I no longer see any need for it at all, especially for guys like kcat and me, working at home.
Give Logic 2-3 months of your time, and you'll forget Pro Tools ever existed. For the three or four things Logic might not have that Pro Tools does, Logic probably had a dozen things or more Pro Tools doesn't.Although my skill level is minimal compared to some of the cats here, I haven't found anything yet I want to do that Logic can't do.
I haven't used Cubase, but I've only heard good things about it.
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Post by superwack on Oct 14, 2015 14:42:31 GMT -6
Have any of you seen the Avid video they posted probably almost a year ago now where they are demonstrating the still not ready for prime time "cloud" collaboration feature?
PT was probably on version 11.1 or .2 at the time and in the video they also show the upcoming Avid Application Manager - in it's window it says "there is a new version available" that version? 11.5! So as we all suspect 12 really seems to be a magically re-numbered 11.x allowing avid to force subscriptions
As I've said. I have 12 and plan on running that for years (at whatever dot update I get last) honestly if you're a PT guy I'd just pay them $99 once (even if you're on 10 now and don't actually install it) as an insurance policy so if your system needs to be replaced in the next 2-4 years you'll be covered.
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Post by henge on Oct 14, 2015 20:49:49 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free. From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'. Read my post where I said " i'm going to be working on logic a couple minutes a day until I get it ", it takes a commitment I'm not interested in giving all at once, I could learn to play another instrument with the same effort, a daw is supposed to be easy and intuitive, I find the others I've tried neither, so I stick with what I know until the ship sinks, I pay the devil one more time and hope for an angel to buy pt from these goofballs and fix the man behind the curtain, PT is a great software platform with lousy business directors in control IMO This is so true. I can't use PT because it confuses me. I'm used to Reaper. Got it down cold. If I had to learn another DAW it would take a long time to get comfortable on it. I feel for you PT guys. How Avid treats you guys is appalling . I gotta ask though, why bother upgrading? PT's gotta do everything you need already...
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2015 20:57:51 GMT -6
Good points : the bug fixes would be good to have resolved !
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Post by porkyman on Oct 14, 2015 23:30:31 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free. From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'. ive tried. i spent a year away from PT trying all the others. its not the standard because everybody's an idiot. its the standard because its the best. especially when it comes to editing, which to me is the most important because it is so tedious and time consuming. that is just a sad truth ive come to accept, and no one hates avid more than me. all the other DAW's except samplitude follow the cubase platform. so any non PT user can easily go between DAW's without much of a learning curve. but any PT power user is gonna struggle mightily. it is like learning a new language. you may learn the words enough to communicate. but theres a big difference between speaking a language and thinking a language. i spent 3 or 4 months each on cubase and studio one. learned them inside out, but could never connect with either one of them. or any others.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 15, 2015 11:53:13 GMT -6
It's standard because it's the lesser of many evils. No DAW has an easy learning curve. Pro Tools is easier than most but much deeper than it looks. I would beware of anybody who claims to "know" it. I learn something every time I watch somebody else and I was their 150th customer!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 15, 2015 12:59:08 GMT -6
porkyman, did you try Logic?
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 15, 2015 14:03:38 GMT -6
It's standard because it's the lesser of many evils. No DAW has an easy learning curve. Pro Tools is easier than most but much deeper than it looks. I would beware of anybody who claims to "know" it. I learn something every time I watch somebody else and I was their 150th customer! sooo true, i musta said "whoa.. i didn't know you could do that!" in a dozen different studios over the years 8)
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 15, 2015 16:23:39 GMT -6
It originally became "standard" in post facilities due to its ability to lock to timecode. That was followed by high end music studios wanting to use out-A-tune locked to analog and digital multitracks. Avid incorporated a lot of features asked for by us post people but many are barely documented.
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Post by Randge on Oct 15, 2015 17:14:01 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free. From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'. ive tried. i spent a year away from PT trying all the others. its not the standard because everybody's an idiot. its the standard because its the best. especially when it comes to editing, which to me is the most important because it is so tedious and time consuming. that is just a sad truth ive come to accept, and no one hates avid more than me. all the other DAW's except samplitude follow the cubase platform. so any non PT user can easily go between DAW's without much of a learning curve. but any PT power user is gonna struggle mightily. it is like learning a new language. you may learn the words enough to communicate. but theres a big difference between speaking a language and thinking a language. i spent 3 or 4 months each on cubase and studio one. learned them inside out, but could never connect with either one of them. or any others. I would have to highly disagree with you on the editing side. Scrolling through playlists and trying to put together things that work together is not for me. Cubase is as simple as it gets in that regard. Slide it to the side and stitch it back up in seconds is far faster and superior imo.
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Post by porkyman on Oct 15, 2015 18:14:37 GMT -6
porkyman, did you try Logic? ive used it at a friends place but i havent tried it extensively because im on pc. some of the scratch tracks my buddy makes with the stock drum/gutar plugs are 90% there to me. its pretty damn impressive. i would never have bothered trying all the others if i were on a mac thats for sure.... still uses the cubase format though which drives me nuts.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 15, 2015 20:02:14 GMT -6
ahh.. I see now, I had a feeling that perhaps you hadn't taken Logic for a spin yourself.
I'll say this, every time I found something difficult, it was my fault. When I went to Apple, they could typically show me how to do what I wanted in a minute. One annoying thing is my 21" screen. Given a 30" screen or bigger, many mistakes I've made would have been avoided. Sometimes what I'm looking for is very small, and until you know where to look, it's easy to miss.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 15, 2015 20:09:43 GMT -6
So ya tried DP too?
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Post by joseph on Oct 15, 2015 22:02:12 GMT -6
Like hardware inserts, comping in Cubase and Logic is very similar. Pro Tools is arcane in comparison, but the artistic advantage could go either way. You could either get bogged down with the extra steps of Pro Tools or lose perspective of the performance as a whole in Cubase/Logic as you can easily grab syllables from every phrase.
So for my part I don't know which is better, really. Probably everyone not knowing that comping existed in the first place would be ideal.
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Post by superwack on Oct 15, 2015 22:17:37 GMT -6
Like hardware inserts, comping in Cubase and Logic is very similar. Pro Tools is arcane in comparison, but the artistic advantage could go either way. You could either get bogged down with the extra steps of Pro Tools or lose perspective of the performance as a whole in Cubase/Logic as you can easily grab syllables from every phrase. So for my part I don't know which is better, really. Probably everyone not knowing that comping existed in the first place would be ideal. I've done songs/records on various forms of tape and in various DAWs where literally EVERY single word/syllable was a punch-in and/or comp and that ALWAYS sucks
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 15, 2015 22:19:56 GMT -6
And what's not extortion about that? What have they done to earn $99 other than fix mistakes they released? I can never upgrade Reaper for a decade and come back and it's the same deal as when I left. And there'll be plenty of new features and none of this dumb "Oh our users can't have 64 I/O's yet because $$$" bullshit. Even if I did like ProTools, I don't think I could support their business model. It boggles that the high end of the industry seems to use nothing but Avid, talk about chaining yourself to a sinking ship. It's the best daw bar none in most people's opinions, that's why leaving is the biggest problem for those of us who feel that way, it's like that woman we all spent time with who's bat shit crazy, you know you should walk, but she can suck a medicine ball through a garden hose! and that has to count for something haha Well, It's the most used DAW bar none...I've gotten to where I prefer Cubase.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 15, 2015 22:23:31 GMT -6
Oct 15, 2015 16:14:01 GMT -7 Randge said: I would have to highly disagree with you on the editing side. Scrolling through playlists and trying to put together things that work together is not for me. Cubase is as simple as it gets in that regard. Slide it to the side and stitch it back up in seconds is far faster and superior imo. This got me curious so I just watched a "comping vocals in Cubase 7.5" tutorial. I'll admit it does look A little easier than pro tools but only slightly. The BIG difference seemed to be that Cubase auto solos the part of the take and auto copies whereas PT uses a key command for each. I am curious as to what you don't like about playlists? From the video, Pro Tools Playlists appear to be EXACTLY the same as LANES in Cubase, they are auto-created the same way, look the same and show/hide the same, etc. I've demoed the really basic Cubase but am planning on doing a real demo soon so I'll see if perception equals the "reality" of YouTube The comping thing was one of the biggest reasons I was scared to go (back) to Cubase...But once I took the time to watch a video about it, I was up and running. Honestly, it's probably a little simpler than PT's IMO.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 15, 2015 23:16:07 GMT -6
mind BLOWN
@ 26:11 if it doesn't auto jump to that spot when you hit play.
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Post by Randge on Oct 16, 2015 7:01:20 GMT -6
I don't use the lanes function in Cubase, either. I can cut a vocal into segments, listen to it, hit delete, hear the next one, hit delete and so on. When I find the best pass after going through them all, I cross fade and move on. If I think it's back to ones I have already deleted, I simply hit Control Z and go back to whatever take it was that I felt was superior. Way faster than anything else I have tried. I do tons of vocal editing here and am pretty dang efficient at it. I do make a copy of the vocal track and disable it before I start comping as well. So, if I change my mind, it's sitting right there to grab a line from without even having to resort back to the pool, loosing time in the process.
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Post by swurveman on Oct 16, 2015 7:17:45 GMT -6
ive tried. i spent a year away from PT trying all the others. its not the standard because everybody's an idiot. its the standard because its the best. especially when it comes to editing, which to me is the most important because it is so tedious and time consuming. that is just a sad truth ive come to accept, and no one hates avid more than me. all the other DAW's except samplitude follow the cubase platform. so any non PT user can easily go between DAW's without much of a learning curve. but any PT power user is gonna struggle mightily. it is like learning a new language. you may learn the words enough to communicate. but theres a big difference between speaking a language and thinking a language. i spent 3 or 4 months each on cubase and studio one. learned them inside out, but could never connect with either one of them. or any others. I would have to highly disagree with you on the editing side. Scrolling through playlists and trying to put together things that work together is not for me. Cubase is as simple as it gets in that regard. Slide it to the side and stitch it back up in seconds is far faster and superior imo. I agree with Randy on this. I have both and have put extensive time on both and would give Cubase the edge on editing, both for comping vocals and general ease of getting to the edit place as quickly as possible using the tools. I will say this though: I am doing a project that is collaborating with people in Detroit, Seattle and Austin and all are using Pro Tools. So, I keep and use it for this reason alone.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 16, 2015 7:53:43 GMT -6
Comping is pretty smooth in DP, I can't compare to others. If I have a complaint it's the bit of processor lag that seems to come with it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 16, 2015 8:13:32 GMT -6
I haven't used the other DAWS, but comping in logic couldn't be easier, one click, then I just swipe where i want to hear, if I want to try the same part from another track, one click, there it is.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 16, 2015 9:51:45 GMT -6
I have a macro that makes auditioning and substituting words or syllables in context ridiculously easy in Pro Tools.
Two decades of macros that have been passed around post facilities is another part of why Pro Tools is standard. I didn't mention it above but Pro Tools was also the first DAW that could lock to picture or a multitrack that was cheap enough to put on a credit card. People talking about it being "expensive" is always a real eye-roller.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 16, 2015 10:53:37 GMT -6
Yes. What were three ADAT's and a BRC originally, $13,500? 1993 dollars, with a waiting list.
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Post by Randge on Oct 16, 2015 11:53:43 GMT -6
Many of those macros and quick key commands would more than likely transfer over, so you can use Cubase but have familiar buttons at your finger tips for the PT user. Can PT do that with Cubase? I dunno.
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