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Post by dandeurloo on Oct 13, 2015 22:14:04 GMT -6
Well it is confusing, but I have it correct. The first AVID guys even said I should have it early on in the conversation. Then they back pedaled, trying to blame it on CORE AUDIO limitations until I told them that wasn't the case and I wasn’t gonna buy that excuse. Then they started to come clean about what was going on. One of the reps then said "I don't know what to tell ya. You should have it, but you don't." He said, he was told it was because of using 3rd party hardware. Then in the same breath he said he knows that PT HD works with 64 I/O with out their hardware because they got it to work for Dante with out the use of any AVID hardware. This rep then told me that I would have more pull with AVID if I had Sweetwater take it up with AVID.
After rehashing this with another AVID rep, he eluded to the fact that when you install PT of any version you have always installed the full HD version. The ILOK just unlocks certain features (which we all knew was the case long before AVID admitted to it). He said they chose what to unlock and maybe at some point they would unlock the 64 I/O. EVEN THOUGH I ALREADY PAID FOR IT (multiple times with the upgrades each year/version of PT) according to their own PT HD NATIVE SOFTWARE CHART!
I am in this strange place from when AVID started to water everything down. They sold me the HD upgrade/crossgrade with EVERYTHING but the DSP from the card or a piece of HD hardware. So, either the whole of Sweetwater and 2 AVID reps have it wrong and have had it wrong since around PT 8 (I think this is when I did the HD upgrade) or AVID is just being sketchy again.
BTW, I do have the ILOK Assets for both PT HD 11 & 12 native and LE or whatever it is now. So just like the chart shows on the AVID site I should have the 64 I/O. I have everything else in that chart and always have since the first purchase of the HD software.
Also, my Sweetwater Rep has been amazing through the process. He's the one who made it possible for me to even talk to the few AVID reps. The more this stuff happens, the less likley AVID is to get existing customers like myself to come back and spend money with them. They need to stop treating us like crap. I have PT 12 but I haven't installed it out of the lack of wanting any more of their BS. If I treated my customers the way they treat me, I wouldn't have one customer left and now the current money grab from them.
Please, someone else buy PT from AVID.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 13, 2015 22:26:17 GMT -6
Eric, Avid is clear about absolutely nothing! I've never seen a company with such aimless convoluted product babble on their website pages, after reading for a while you start to catch on to the fact that the confusion is intentional, so they can trap people into their "lockout for more $ angle", the absurdity of the last year of their press releases generated more confusion and more questions than ever, and answered virtually NOTHING for months! Avid is so obviously scheming and trying to F people into their greedy paradigm that they're clearly killing the co.
I went through the friggin ringer trying to collect info on the PTHD native thing, i'm talking about hours of researching and asking questions for things i should've been able to read clearly on the site in 5 F-ing minutes! But no, after spinning my wheels, reaching out to and exchanging emails with a salesman from VK nashville, i ended up buying a digi 192 based on VK's advice, the sales guy was totally cool, but totally wrong! Eric was the one who said "i don't know T, it sounds wrong to me", so i inquired again and told him what E told me, a day later he got back with a "man, i'm sorry, i had no idea"...
Then I decided F-it, go big or go home, i'm just going max the cards and buy 2 brand new Avid 16 IO's with BLA mods, and a NativeHD card, I was ready to pay just under $13,000 to do it! but then they wanted to charge me an additional $1,400 for an upgrade from vanilla 10 to the 10HD software license, i was like..."really? i'm spending $13K and you're not gonna hook me up with the HD license? Ok, throw in the licence and i'll pay for my upgrades down the road, thats my final offer", they said "no deal", so I went another route, how fucking stupid is that! $13k out for $1,400 in software that i would've had to PAY to upgrade every year... astonishing!
The bottom line at this point is Avid has turned into a clueless company that still somehow has the best daw software available IMO, but i believe that will change sooner than later, and they will ultimately fail as a co. At the end of the year i will upgrade to 12 because PT is all i know, and i'm forced to, in the meantime i will buy a copy of logic and try to put in a couple minutes a day to learn it, by the time 12 becomes useless i'll make the switch.
what Dan said "Avid, please sell PT to another co"
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Post by ragan on Oct 13, 2015 22:46:19 GMT -6
I agree. I hate that I think PT is the best, but I do. Some absolute shitheads running the company. Please....someone else take over. These guys have their heads way, way up their asses.
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Post by WKG on Oct 13, 2015 23:03:27 GMT -6
Avid has pretty well proven that they can't be trusted. There is something morally wrong with giving money to a proven liar and cheat.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 13, 2015 23:17:00 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free.
From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'.
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Post by WKG on Oct 13, 2015 23:24:46 GMT -6
I've been digging into Reaper lately. I like it but haven't settled on anything yet. Cubase or Studio One are both on my radar also.
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Post by levon on Oct 13, 2015 23:35:41 GMT -6
I don't know, I get the feeling you PT users have masochist tendencies.
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Post by ragan on Oct 13, 2015 23:46:41 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free. From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'. A fair point for sure. I've dabbled in Cubase and Reaper and (in my admittedly subjective view) they just don't flow easily and quickly. Tracking, editing, mixing...it all goes (again subjective) faster and easier in PT. I'm sure that's mostly due to the fact that I've used PT for so long and the others for such a limited amount of time, but I believe some of it comes from the fact the PT is a better laid out DAW. I don't want the moon here, I just want the DAW I know and like to, you know, be a relatively normal product that has some relationship to a rational consumer. The people running Avid seem to be on another planet. It's pretty baffling. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2015 0:11:27 GMT -6
@banned chuck yup time to put up or shut up  . I started the thread really for entertainment value as it seems incredulous that any company would consider this approach "good" customer service. I find protools as a daw works for me and had been planning on buying 12 and no more but now I will probably get Logic or Studio one if there is a sale. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2015 2:47:42 GMT -6
I don't really care about any of 12's features but would like 11: (remember how it was supposed to be the great new pro tools) bugs fixed! I guess avid is so desperate for money it's next bold move will be to tell us they had a bug in their pricing and we all paid the wrong low price and we all owe them another $200; hey wait a sec :that's exactly what they are doing charging us again for the daw we already bought ! |
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 14, 2015 4:52:31 GMT -6
Come to the dark side and tell your clients to consolidate.
Most low to midrange studios would save substantially if they didn't insist on using Avid's software.
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Post by Ward on Oct 14, 2015 5:52:31 GMT -6
I'm happily sticking with PT10, thank you... thank you very much.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2015 6:50:58 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free. From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'. Read my post where I said " i'm going to be working on logic a couple minutes a day until I get it ", it takes a commitment I'm not interested in giving all at once, I could learn to play another instrument with the same effort, a daw is supposed to be easy and intuitive, I find the others I've tried neither, so I stick with what I know until the ship sinks, I pay the devil one more time and hope for an angel to buy pt from these goofballs and fix the man behind the curtain, PT is a great software platform with lousy business directors in control IMO |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2015 6:57:23 GMT -6
"pay the devil one more time" ^^This^^ love it great new song in there Tony ! |
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Post by matt on Oct 14, 2015 7:46:43 GMT -6
told it was because of using 3rd party hardware This is my understanding, as well. I am running Apogee Symphony 64 Thunderbolt on Core Audio with a total of 8 inputs and 40 outputs. I do not own any Avid interfaces, so the 32i, 32o limit is in place. Eight outputs are wasted, as of now. However, I am pretty sure that if I were to buy an Avid Thunderbolt|HD Native interface and configure the Apogees to run as emulated Avid devices, the limit would go up to 64i, 64o. I would do this but for my summing, which is 32 input (SSL Sigma). Honestly, I have to work at it to fill 32 channels of summing, so it is no longer a priority. But at first I was irritated at the limit, which is arbitrary and stupid these days, given the competition. Hell, I'd have to buy another Sigma if I was to expand my outboard any more. Hmm . . . . |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2015 10:05:42 GMT -6
Ha. Well now I kinda feel like a schmuck for quibbling over $99. It feels like extortion, though, because eventually 10 & 11 aren't going to work on future operating systems and I'll be left without pro tools that I bought. Or - I can pay the tribute fee of $99 a year. The problem is this: I have to pay it in a certain time or I will then have to pay $899 for it.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 14, 2015 10:56:47 GMT -6
so, all of you guys that are complaining, what is stopping you from switching to another DAW? there are plenty of 'em out there. Logic is Cheap. CuBase has a cross-grade offer. Studio One supposedly sounds ridiculously good and is super easy to use. I know a few guys who do everything in Ableton Live. Reaper is essentially free. From a non-PT user's perspective, it just kinda sounds like you guys wanna complain but not do anything about it... just sayin'. Yupp special with the new DSP DACs you can have near zero latency monitoring plus effects etc in tracking. I know one famous producer here in Germany who kicked out HD ten years ago.... |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2015 11:08:35 GMT -6
Ha. Well now I kinda feel like a schmuck for quibbling over $99. It feels like extortion, though, because eventually 10 & 11 aren't going to work on future operating systems and I'll be left without pro tools that I bought. Or - I can pay the tribute fee of $99 a year. The problem is this: I have to pay it in a certain time or I will then have to pay $899 for it. Just wait till dec31st and decide what is best for you. some are planning on buying 12 then perpetual and then not upgrading again later. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 14, 2015 11:15:53 GMT -6
Ha. Well now I kinda feel like a schmuck for quibbling over $99. It feels like extortion, though, because eventually 10 & 11 aren't going to work on future operating systems and I'll be left without pro tools that I bought. Or - I can pay the tribute fee of $99 a year. The problem is this: I have to pay it in a certain time or I will then have to pay $899 for it. yeah, but all of us audio guys never upgrade our Operating Systems anyway. I bet half of the forum members who post here still run os x 10.9 or lower, or windows 7 or lower lol |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2015 11:20:10 GMT -6
I'm just saying it will eventually catch up with you where you have to make a decision...
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 14, 2015 11:24:33 GMT -6
Ha. Well now I kinda feel like a schmuck for quibbling over $99. It feels like extortion, though, because eventually 10 & 11 aren't going to work on future operating systems and I'll be left without pro tools that I bought. Or - I can pay the tribute fee of $99 a year. The problem is this: I have to pay it in a certain time or I will then have to pay $899 for it. And what's not extortion about that? What have they done to earn $99 other than fix mistakes they released? I can never upgrade Reaper for a decade and come back and it's the same deal as when I left. And there'll be plenty of new features and none of this dumb "Oh our users can't have 64 I/O's yet because $$$" bullshit. Even if I did like ProTools, I don't think I could support their business model. It boggles that the high end of the industry seems to use nothing but Avid, talk about chaining yourself to a sinking ship. |
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Post by jdc on Oct 14, 2015 12:33:26 GMT -6
Everyone get ready for when their systems are down on 12/31 and everyone that tries to upgrade doesn't get processed through, resulting in an $899 bill.
You heard it here first folks!
(full disclosure, I've already upgraded and feel dirty about it)
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2015 13:20:39 GMT -6
Ha. Well now I kinda feel like a schmuck for quibbling over $99. It feels like extortion, though, because eventually 10 & 11 aren't going to work on future operating systems and I'll be left without pro tools that I bought. Or - I can pay the tribute fee of $99 a year. The problem is this: I have to pay it in a certain time or I will then have to pay $899 for it. And what's not extortion about that? What have they done to earn $99 other than fix mistakes they released? I can never upgrade Reaper for a decade and come back and it's the same deal as when I left. And there'll be plenty of new features and none of this dumb "Oh our users can't have 64 I/O's yet because $$$" bullshit. Even if I did like ProTools, I don't think I could support their business model. It boggles that the high end of the industry seems to use nothing but Avid, talk about chaining yourself to a sinking ship. It's the best daw bar none in most people's opinions, that's why leaving is the biggest problem for those of us who feel that way, it's like that woman we all spent time with who's bat shit crazy, you know you should walk, but she can suck a medicine ball through a garden hose! and that has to count for something haha |
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 14, 2015 14:22:36 GMT -6
Ha. Well now I kinda feel like a schmuck for quibbling over $99. It feels like extortion, though, because eventually 10 & 11 aren't going to work on future operating systems and I'll be left without pro tools that I bought. Or - I can pay the tribute fee of $99 a year. The problem is this: I have to pay it in a certain time or I will then have to pay $899 for it. yeah, but all of us audio guys never upgrade our Operating Systems anyway. I bet half of the forum members who post here still run os x 10.9 or lower, or windows 7 or lower lol funny I still run 10.06 |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 14, 2015 14:27:02 GMT -6
It's really just the time it takes to learn something else, at least for me. If love to try cubase, but when I have someone coming in for a session, I can't be learning the DAW as I go. I need to have everything ready to go and keep the session running smoothly. PT11 is running tip top here and I'm comfortable with operating it. I just don't want to get boned into a $900 upgrade because I miss their $99 deadline.
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