|
Post by b1 on Aug 25, 2015 20:09:03 GMT -6
It's the end of the day here with some stuff left to do. I'll check back later.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 25, 2015 20:12:03 GMT -6
I know what you mean John, but I remember speaking with the guys from Bricasti, and their explanation seemed plausible, and not self serving. As processing power gets cheaper, eventually it will be possible to do what you're suggesting, it's just a matter of time.
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 26, 2015 6:40:09 GMT -6
I find it extremely hard to believe that their box has more processing power than my quadcore imac, or one of those 12-core mac pros.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 26, 2015 7:29:09 GMT -6
I find it extremely hard to believe that their box has more processing power than my quadcore imac, or one of those 12-core mac pros. even if a plugin uses 1/10th of ur computers processing power... It's way too much as ur computer has a LOT of other things to do as a multi tasking hardware device..., A bricasti is a single purpose computational hardware device
|
|
|
Post by sll on Aug 26, 2015 8:29:16 GMT -6
There are 6 sharc dsp chips inside the M7. Tony is right, even if a plugin used less, there's still too much demand on a computer for other tasks.
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Aug 26, 2015 9:14:20 GMT -6
SHARC chips are older, slower devices. The M7 has 6 Blackfin processors. You would need 10 I7 Intel processors to equal the processing in the M7. Needless to say, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Computer simulators will not be able emulate what is going on inside the M7. Imagine the heatsinks, fans, power supplies and shear size to build a PC version of it. At under 4 grand, the M7 is a bargain. Remember Lexicon main frames at well over $10,000?
There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 26, 2015 9:27:16 GMT -6
SHARC chips are older, slower devices. The M7 has 6 Blackfin processors. You would need 10 I7 Intel processors to equal the processing in the M7. Needless to say, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Computer simulators will not be able emulate what is going on inside the M7. Imagine the heatsinks, fans, power supplies and shear size to build a PC version of it. At under 4 grand, the M7 is a bargain. Remember Lexicon main frames at well over $10,000? There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. holy crap! I was reading about the sharkfins, and the PSU in this thing is crazy good as well, i have worst gas ever for exactly 2 things right now, a Bricasti and a Scott Liebers custom built acoustic guitar! I got a couple more major bills to pay off, then i'm doing both!!! 8)
|
|
|
Post by sll on Aug 26, 2015 9:33:03 GMT -6
SHARC chips are older, slower devices. The M7 has 6 Blackfin processors. You would need 10 I7 Intel processors to equal the processing in the M7. Needless to say, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Computer simulators will not be able emulate what is going on inside the M7. Imagine the heatsinks, fans, power supplies and shear size to build a PC version of it. At under 4 grand, the M7 is a bargain. Remember Lexicon main frames at well over $10,000? There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. That's right. It's been a while since I took the lid off mine. They were Blackfins. My memory is getting foggy. I don't see a plug in touching what an M7 can do for a very long time. Perhaps if you built a monster pc that only did one thing? But then you'd probably spend more money and time than just buying and M7 that fits in 1 rack space.
|
|
|
Post by sll on Aug 26, 2015 9:36:50 GMT -6
For me, the M7 is the only game in town for realistic acoustic spaces. I've used Lex 224, 480L, and 960s on string quartets and orchestra recordings. While they are great, they don't do natural spaces well. The grainy verb tails always gave them away. The first time I used an M7, I could add ambience to the instruments and space and it blended so well it sounded like a nice stereo pair pickup in a great acoustic space.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Aug 26, 2015 10:38:35 GMT -6
OK - I'm not being contrarian here...or maybe I am...but I just have a hard time believing the old, "takes up as much power as a 12 core Mac" argument. I mean, really? Of course, hardware manufacturers will say that because, well, they sell hardware. But I don't know...there are some really fantastic ITB verbs. Now, if we're talking about vs a real plate or real chamber, then maybe not...but these things are both digital... You should believe it, because thats exactly what it's doing, it's got 6 dual core processors in it! thats 12 cores!! It takes a shit ton of dsp to run a good convolution reverb ITB, and i've never heard one touch what i heard on the sample wiz showed me, and he was also using one of the most respected itb verbs around in the relab 480 for comparison, it's pretty damn impressive, you should get one interest free from sweetwater and check it out JK! you could always return it if you don't like it. I had the one Cowboy bought (and sold) for a couple of days. It sounded great, but it didn't just "destroy" other verbs...
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Aug 26, 2015 10:40:36 GMT -6
There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. Where is the eyeroll emoji?
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2015 11:46:23 GMT -6
I still don't understand people who think a generic do it all CPU is going to come close to the power of dedicated DSP! Someday yes plugins will equal what the M7 will do but at that point these guys will have gone beyond this, the math these guys came up with is out of this world.' The only thing that sucks is there won't be a watered down like PCM70 version cause of the digital HP needed ! Let's see if I sell all my delays and verbs I can come up with how much?
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 26, 2015 11:52:10 GMT -6
There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. Where is the eyeroll emoji? it's right next to the "I've got GAS" emoji lol
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 26, 2015 16:07:31 GMT -6
SHARC chips are older, slower devices. The M7 has 6 Blackfin processors. You would need 10 I7 Intel processors to equal the processing in the M7. Needless to say, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Computer simulators will not be able emulate what is going on inside the M7. Imagine the heatsinks, fans, power supplies and shear size to build a PC version of it. At under 4 grand, the M7 is a bargain. Remember Lexicon main frames at well over $10,000? There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. I COMPLETELY DISAGREE 8) there are THREE kinds of studios ... Those that have one Those that dont and mine! where I come in smile, laugh, then slowly start to sink into depression and sobbing as I realise its going to have to go back at some point 8) cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by formatcyes on Aug 26, 2015 17:31:27 GMT -6
SHARC chips are older, slower devices. The M7 has 6 Blackfin processors. You would need 10 I7 Intel processors to equal the processing in the M7. Needless to say, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Computer simulators will not be able emulate what is going on inside the M7. Imagine the heatsinks, fans, power supplies and shear size to build a PC version of it. At under 4 grand, the M7 is a bargain. Remember Lexicon main frames at well over $10,000? There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. I don't think this is right. The blackfin in the Bricasti is 16 or 32 bit and is at least 7 year old tech. Blackfin also do video encoding chips (HD) the i7 chips can do realtime 4k encoding which kills the Backfin and thats not even the latest i7 which are 10% faster..
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Aug 26, 2015 17:42:56 GMT -6
glad to have multiple geeks on this forum :-D
|
|
|
Post by dandeurloo on Aug 26, 2015 20:41:55 GMT -6
glad to have multiple geeks on this forum :-D I'm glad to have a M7! The geeks are good as well.
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Aug 26, 2015 21:29:19 GMT -6
You can have one for $106.00 a month for 36 months from Sweetwater, offer good till Sept 8th.
I could also put it on the BofA card get 1% cash back, then transfer the balance to the CitiBank card and get 1% cash back, interest free for 18 months and 1% of the payment everytime I make a payment. Tempting.
|
|
|
Post by unit7 on Aug 26, 2015 23:14:10 GMT -6
SHARC chips are older, slower devices. The M7 has 6 Blackfin processors. You would need 10 I7 Intel processors to equal the processing in the M7. Needless to say, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Computer simulators will not be able emulate what is going on inside the M7. Imagine the heatsinks, fans, power supplies and shear size to build a PC version of it. At under 4 grand, the M7 is a bargain. Remember Lexicon main frames at well over $10,000? There are two kinds of studios in this world, those that have the M7 and those that do not. I don't think this is right. The blackfin in the Bricasti is 16 or 32 bit and is at least 7 year old tech. Blackfin also do video encoding chips (HD) the i7 chips can do realtime 4k encoding which kills the Backfin and thats not even the latest i7 which are 10% faster.. I know nada about these processors. But anyway, Bricasti have announced the v3 (at least a year away), a "for cost hardware upgrade" which will include a DSP upgrade said to have "15x the computing resource of a 3 ghz I7 processor". Bricasti have said all along that they will keep the M7 supported and technically up-to-date for 20yrs. Seems they are sticking to it. Impressive.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 27, 2015 7:49:53 GMT -6
Since the Bricasti already has the most realistic reverb, does that mean it'll be like visiting the holodeck on Star Trek after the upgrade?
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Aug 27, 2015 9:02:54 GMT -6
I don't think this is right. The blackfin in the Bricasti is 16 or 32 bit and is at least 7 year old tech. Blackfin also do video encoding chips (HD) the i7 chips can do realtime 4k encoding which kills the Backfin and thats not even the latest i7 which are 10% faster.. I know nada about these processors. But anyway, Bricasti have announced the v3 (at least a year away), a "for cost hardware upgrade" which will include a DSP upgrade said to have "15x the computing resource of a 3 ghz I7 processor". Bricasti have said all along that they will keep the M7 supported and technically up-to-date for 20yrs. Seems they are sticking to it. Impressive. I did just read the same on the other site, a post from Casey himself saying v3 was less than a year away and will included a hardware upgrade in addition to a software upgrade. He went on to say that the price of the M7 will raise in an equal amount to what it costs current M7 owners for the hardware upgrade. So, it looks like the price of the Bricasti is going up soon.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Aug 27, 2015 9:10:35 GMT -6
With DSP processors, equating computational power against a generic CPU is misleading and not something that is done by designers.
DSP requires specific coding, which is tightly tuned for the application and for the processor it's used with. It usually doesn't include a lot of error traps/handling nor does it have any fluff that would make the code portable to other processors. Nevermind that the DSP processor is built very differently, and the chip resources are arranged very differently, and efficiently for the application. Think of a bullet train. Very fast going one direction only.
Generic CPU coding is pretty wasteful as far as coding goes. it contains tons of error handling, and a lot of fluff that allows it to be used across multiple generic processor types. Generic CPU design is also pretty wasteful. It includes tons of resources that may or may not be used, and may or may not be used well. Think of an SUV. Built heavy and utilitarian and can go lots of places, but slow.
You've heard of comparing apples and oranges, this is more like comparing apples and brake pads for a '70 chevy nova.
Any comparison is strictly marketing speak.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 27, 2015 9:41:33 GMT -6
With DSP processors, equating computational power against a generic CPU is misleading and not something that is done by designers. DSP requires specific coding, which is tightly tuned for the application and for the processor it's used with. It usually doesn't include a lot of error traps/handling nor does it have any fluff that would make the code portable to other processors. Nevermind that the DSP processor is built very differently, and the chip resources are arranged very differently, and efficiently for the application. Think of a bullet train. Very fast going one direction only. Generic CPU coding is pretty wasteful as far as coding goes. it contains tons of error handling, and a lot of fluff that allows it to be used across multiple generic processor types. Generic CPU design is also pretty wasteful. It includes tons of resources that may or may not be used, and may or may not be used well. Think of an SUV. Built heavy and utilitarian and can go lots of places, but slow. You've heard of comparing apples and oranges, this is more like comparing apples and brake pads for a '70 chevy nova. Any comparison is strictly marketing speak. cool, good stuff and point taken. You know what isn't marketing speak? From a realism perspective, the Bricasti smokes any plugin i've ever heard by a significant margin, i don't care if they have witches casting spells to get it there, it sounds amazing! As soon as i can afford it, i'm getting one.
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Aug 27, 2015 9:57:36 GMT -6
I don't understand the continual reference to one plugin and one CPU. One reverb plugin is so 90's. Ya'll do understand that multiple processing is available in the computer geek's network. Multiple CPU's and multiple DSP chips and multiple algos are at the disposal of anyone with the gumption to give it a whirl. That is common practice here. I have a crazy monitoring chain that doesn't necessarily get printed every time. But I do likes to be flabbergasted when writing or scoring.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 27, 2015 13:44:26 GMT -6
I commonly use 3 verbs from the same send for layering, i'll treat each verb with differing eq's in an effort to create dramatic front to back image depth and and space, I'll first use early reflections on a separate plug for placement..., so thats 4, and that still doesn't compete with my JW modded lexicon lxp15, forget what i heard recently coming from the bricasti.
Sorry, i don't have one, and i hate that it's so expensive, but it is what it is....
|
|