|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 23, 2015 16:46:38 GMT -6
Are the Bricasti IR's really that inferior or are they a good (decent enough) alternative? I have the M7 IR's here. The only convolution host I can put them in is, Space Designer. It's certainly not the best IR host. Something like HOFA is probably better, I don't own that though,and have already run the demo. In the (limited) testing I have done, using the M7 IRs in Space Designer, against the M7 itself. They certainly aren't the same... the sense of 3D that the original has is lost IMHO. As to whether they are "good enough" thats really a question for each individual I think. I plan on doing some testing, and can post some stuff.. cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Aug 23, 2015 16:54:53 GMT -6
Thanks wiz. I'm sure if you had access to the HW unit, you probably wouldn't bother with the IRs. I haven't bought the HOFA plug, but it looks interesting. I'm not at a point that I need a diff reverb, but will store this away for future reference, whereas I prob won't be investing in an M7 anytime soon... |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 23, 2015 16:55:28 GMT -6
$3700 usd !!!! man that is like $5 grand cdn; it better sound good !!
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Aug 23, 2015 17:00:17 GMT -6
congrats all Bricasti posessers! sorry I am drunk right now. With a price tag like that, stay-or-go becomes very imminent, it's impressive that so many think it's worth the cost in this age of plugin easiness. I'm sure getting a loan or a 0% interest posession of such equipment is a pretty appealing proposition. I know Dave Pensado is using one too, along with Shadow Hills compression and Maag EQ hardware, somebody must be doing something right these days!
|
|
|
|
Post by rickcarson on Aug 25, 2015 7:26:02 GMT -6
The impulses are very good in a 2d sort of way. I like music club for acoustic guitar. Reminds me of some old smokey bar.
|
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Aug 25, 2015 8:41:30 GMT -6
When using the Hofa, I am getting very 3D verb sounds to my ear. I am always combining different verbs and trying things. The Ocean Way plug and the large, warm and dark setting in the Hofa IR verb play very nicely together. I use them and the Echo B setting in Cubase Reverence together for slower songs a lot. I also use the Bricasti Red Room IR setting with some tweaks for drums and the Bricasti Deep Stone often for acoustic instruments. I am eq-ing the verbs to suit the song. They sound very dimensional to me once I get them dialed. Eventually, when I have acquired the gear I still feel are staples and need for the music I am producing for others, I will get a pair of the Bricasti analog verbs. Until then, the Hofa is my champ.
|
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Aug 25, 2015 9:35:43 GMT -6
When using the Hofa, I am getting very 3D verb sounds to my ear. I am always combining different verbs and trying things. The Ocean Way plug and the large, warm and dark setting in the Hofa IR verb play very nicely together. I use them and the Echo B setting in Cubase Reverence together for slower songs a lot. I also use the Bricasti Red Room IR setting with some tweaks for drums and the Bricasti Deep Stone often for acoustic instruments. I am eq-ing the verbs to suit the song. They sound very dimensional to me once I get them dialed. Eventually, when I have acquired the gear I still feel are staples and need for the music I am producing for others, I will get a pair of the Bricasti analog verbs. Until then, the Hofa is my champ. An interesting take on this, Randge... I'm mixing DSP chip verb + my own plugin verb here. It's pretty 3-D/ambient to my ears. It's well suited for realistic symphony hall space if needed. I think I'll try to incorporate the M7 IRs to try that flavor. Surely a width adjustable stereo solution can be had for cheaper than the HOFA. And processing that for adjustable space/dimension is doable. I can't justify the cost for an M7. But I don't hire out these days other than freebies for non-profits. There are plenty of alternative formulas available, just need to continue experimenting to find them. It's there if needed/wanted! |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 25, 2015 11:18:24 GMT -6
I believe the reason why the hardware boxes out perform the plugs is due to limitations of the dsp power ITB, one instance plugged in equaling the hardware version of the bricasti verb will use almost all of you computer processing power, wiz told me he heard or read somewhere/someone that a single bricasti algo takes up equal to 9 of 10 chips used in an Avid HD3 card? That complexity is probably the same reason a plate plugin/or hardware box will never touch a real plate reverb, that includes the bricasti, I've heard that from everyone I know who owns a one, they say the plates are good, but they are weakest of the algo's in that thing.?.? I hope to find out for myself sooner than later, that thing excites me, it sounded immediate a significant margin above all room sims i've personally heard, and that's with really no fuss or tweaking, i can't imagine how far it could be taken by dialing it in purposefully! The no interest sweetwater deal is making me crazy! |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 25, 2015 12:12:59 GMT -6
The Exponential reverb I heard was brilliant, if you need a clean space for a classical vibe. It came close to the Bricasti in that one setting. The Bricasti's the best I've heard. I don't remember trying their plate though. I'm good with the UAD EMT-140 when I want some of that. If I had my money back, I'd buy the Exponential to complement my Relab 480XL, instead of the EMT-140. But I've got enough verb to be happy for now. Somewhere down the road, I think a Bricasti might become a must have, but I can think of quite a few more important pieces I'd need before it reached the top of my audio bucket list.
The original lexicon 480 XL sounds really great when using the hardware, probably for the same reason Tony points out. But the Lexi is highly colored, in a good way, but colored. The Bricasti just sounded stunning, like jaw dropping stunning.
|
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 25, 2015 16:58:18 GMT -6
after spending more time with it. And comparing it to all the other things I have, Relab 480L, Valhalla Vintage Verb, Space Designer (IR host that comes with Logic) with Bricasti M7 IRs...
Everything else, doesn't do what the Bricasti does, certainly not in my hands... and heres the thing, the Bricasti is doing it with presets!
Of course its personal preference... and I hate that this thing costs what it does... its only just in my reach , if I save for a year.
I don't know how long I will have this thing for... but I am gonna start saving whilst I have it.. sell everything I have laying around that hasn't been used on the last few records etc and if some plug
comes out between now and when I get the cash together, great! if not... I buy him.
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Aug 25, 2015 17:19:57 GMT -6
after spending more time with it. And comparing it to all the other things I have, Relab 480L, Valhalla Vintage Verb, Space Designer (IR host that comes with Logic) with Bricasti M7 IRs... Everything else, doesn't do what the Bricasti does, certainly not in my hands... and heres the thing, the Bricasti is doing it with presets! Of course its personal preference... and I hate that this thing costs what it does... its only just in my reach , if I save for a year. I don't know how long I will have this thing for... but I am gonna start saving whilst I have it.. sell everything I have laying around that hasn't been used on the last few records etc and if some plug comes out between now and when I get the cash together, great! if not... I buy him. cheers Wiz Agreed Wiz. Any discussion of plugins sounding like a Bricasti is, in my experience, pointless. Nothing does what the Bricasti does. I've tried the most of the plugs and use many of them. Half the time you don't realize how much the Bricasti it's doing until you mute it. It's crazy good |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 25, 2015 17:56:09 GMT -6
after spending more time with it. And comparing it to all the other things I have, Relab 480L, Valhalla Vintage Verb, Space Designer (IR host that comes with Logic) with Bricasti M7 IRs... Everything else, doesn't do what the Bricasti does, certainly not in my hands... and heres the thing, the Bricasti is doing it with presets! Of course its personal preference... and I hate that this thing costs what it does... its only just in my reach , if I save for a year. I don't know how long I will have this thing for... but I am gonna start saving whilst I have it.. sell everything I have laying around that hasn't been used on the last few records etc and if some plug comes out between now and when I get the cash together, great! if not... I buy him. cheers Wiz Agreed Wiz. Any discussion of plugins sounding like a Bricasti is, in my experience, pointless. Nothing does what the Bricasti does. I've tried the most of the plugs and use many of them. Half the time you don't realize how much the Bricasti it's doing until you mute it. It's crazy good Thats a really good point, about really missing it when you turn it off... thats exactly what I am noticing. Damn its good... DAMN its EXPENSIVE cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Aug 25, 2015 18:03:05 GMT -6
after spending more time with it. And comparing it to all the other things I have, Relab 480L, Valhalla Vintage Verb, Space Designer (IR host that comes with Logic) with Bricasti M7 IRs... Everything else, doesn't do what the Bricasti does, certainly not in my hands... and heres the thing, the Bricasti is doing it with presets! Are you tracking with it as well as mixing? |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Aug 25, 2015 18:22:58 GMT -6
hey jim, when are you gonna come out with your own "svartbox" that we can all scoop up and never need converters again? You could have at least said "converter" while pandering considering Svart is a member here...I'm sure the guy ain't made of wood... |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Aug 25, 2015 18:26:41 GMT -6
OK - I'm not being contrarian here...or maybe I am...but I just have a hard time believing the old, "takes up as much power as a 12 core Mac" argument. I mean, really? Of course, hardware manufacturers will say that because, well, they sell hardware. But I don't know...there are some really fantastic ITB verbs. Now, if we're talking about vs a real plate or real chamber, then maybe not...but these things are both digital...
|
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Aug 25, 2015 18:38:52 GMT -6
Yeah, well the M7 demos I just listened to sounded good, but not $3695.00 creamy goodness... Is nobody doing sound design anymore? I mean I have that kinda 3-D spacial thing going on everyday; with no 6 dual-core DSP chips. A couple different algos going at the same time and ONE DSP chip. Stereo too... Maybe I have a goldmine here!
|
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 25, 2015 18:53:54 GMT -6
You guys are killing' me. This is so far off my radar, but I auditioned it at AES two years ago, and it was plain to see how good it is. The guys at Bricasti told me a plug will never happen, it's too complicated to do for some technical reasons that were over my head then. They said UAD had already spoken with them about it, but it's a no go. I told Casey it will happen in 2013. I was wrong, but I am pretty sure it will happen one day. Some of the Nebula folks told in thier forum that they have been pretty close to the M7, but out of a sudden the project died. I am pretty sure we will see the plug for one simple reason. They can make a lot of money with it. |
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Aug 25, 2015 19:05:52 GMT -6
OK - I'm not being contrarian here...or maybe I am...but I just have a hard time believing the old, "takes up as much power as a 12 core Mac" argument. I mean, really? Of course, hardware manufacturers will say that because, well, they sell hardware. But I don't know...there are some really fantastic ITB verbs. Now, if we're talking about vs a real plate or real chamber, then maybe not...but these things are both digital... The Bricasti uses something like 10 different verbs running simultaneously to create each single preset. One for early, one for late reflections, etc... There's a YouTube video of Casey discussing that. On top of the complexity of the algorithms, that is another reason why it takes up so much processing power. It's also why it sounds so amazing. The interaction with physical sound is more than just slapping a single verb on a sound. |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 25, 2015 19:16:01 GMT -6
after spending more time with it. And comparing it to all the other things I have, Relab 480L, Valhalla Vintage Verb, Space Designer (IR host that comes with Logic) with Bricasti M7 IRs... Everything else, doesn't do what the Bricasti does, certainly not in my hands... and heres the thing, the Bricasti is doing it with presets! Are you tracking with it as well as mixing? I haven't as yet.. just mixing. Maybe today 8) probably would reamp with it to take advantage like that I reckon. cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 25, 2015 19:18:38 GMT -6
Yeah, well the M7 demos I just listened to sounded good, but not $3695.00 creamy goodness... Is nobody doing sound design anymore? I mean I have that kinda 3-D spacial thing going on everyday; with no 6 dual-core DSP chips. A couple different algos going at the same time and ONE DSP chip. Stereo too... Maybe I have a goldmine here! Don't read this as contrary... Any chance you can demo this for us... If I give you say an acoustic guitar and vocal track, and a mix of those with Bricasti, just running a preset, can you see how close you can get with plug ins... you might save me and everyone else a fortune cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 25, 2015 19:21:36 GMT -6
OK - I'm not being contrarian here...or maybe I am...but I just have a hard time believing the old, "takes up as much power as a 12 core Mac" argument. I mean, really? Of course, hardware manufacturers will say that because, well, they sell hardware. But I don't know...there are some really fantastic ITB verbs. Now, if we're talking about vs a real plate or real chamber, then maybe not...but these things are both digital... You should believe it, because thats exactly what it's doing, it's got 6 dual core processors in it! thats 12 cores!! It takes a shit ton of dsp to run a good convolution reverb ITB, and i've never heard one touch what i heard on the sample wiz showed me, and he was also using one of the most respected itb verbs around in the relab 480 for comparison, it's pretty damn impressive, you should get one interest free from sweetwater and check it out JK! you could always return it if you don't like it. |
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Aug 25, 2015 19:39:40 GMT -6
Yeah, well the M7 demos I just listened to sounded good, but not $3695.00 creamy goodness... Is nobody doing sound design anymore? I mean I have that kinda 3-D spacial thing going on everyday; with no 6 dual-core DSP chips. A couple different algos going at the same time and ONE DSP chip. Stereo too... Maybe I have a goldmine here! Don't read this as contrary... Any chance you can demo this for us... If I give you say an acoustic guitar and vocal track, and a mix of those with Bricasti, just running a preset, can you see how close you can get with plug ins... you might save me and everyone else a fortune cheers Wiz Ok. I've had the chain I'm referring to for a couple of years, out of my desire to have that ambient space. This was long before I heard the Bricasti, and I've tried a lot of combinations. Others came close but I've settled on what I've got now. Does it emulate an M7? Probably not by A/B-ing to a guy that has a unit. It is 3-D enough to me, which was my point - especially in light of the cost for the M7, but I'd be happy to see how close I come to matching the sound. From what I heard, it sounded good, but not good enough to justify the cost - for me. Not trying to talk anyone out of their love for something they clearly love. I'm not clear on the arrangement you wanted. You wanted to send me separate acoustic and vocal tracks to mix in comparison to the track you already mixed with the Bricasti?... Sure, I can give it a go... |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 25, 2015 19:44:09 GMT -6
OK - I'm not being contrarian here...or maybe I am...but I just have a hard time believing the old, "takes up as much power as a 12 core Mac" argument. I mean, really? Of course, hardware manufacturers will say that because, well, they sell hardware. But I don't know...there are some really fantastic ITB verbs. Now, if we're talking about vs a real plate or real chamber, then maybe not...but these things are both digital... You should believe it, because thats exactly what it's doing, it's got 6 dual core processors in it! thats 12 cores!! It takes a shit ton of dsp to run a good convolution reverb ITB, and i've never heard one touch what i heard on the sample wiz showed me, and he was also using one of the most respected itb verbs around in the relab 480 for comparison, it's pretty damn impressive, you should get one interest free from sweetwater and check it out JK! you could always return it if you don't like it. On the other hand Lexicon showed how to code a world class reverb as plug in without eating up all the horse power of the CPU. I am pretty sure Casey could port the code too, but it will take time and money. I was impressed by the PCM bundle how it glues with the source and was positve schocked that one instance takes less than a few percentages of load. Using some ERs out of Altiverb IR and using the tails of the PCM bundle is doing some very outstanding real sounding spaces. I know the M7 is outstanding but I cant justify the investment for a single unit....with this the M7 belongs to the Pro mixing geek camp. |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 25, 2015 19:53:28 GMT -6
Don't read this as contrary... Any chance you can demo this for us... If I give you say an acoustic guitar and vocal track, and a mix of those with Bricasti, just running a preset, can you see how close you can get with plug ins... you might save me and everyone else a fortune cheers Wiz Ok. I've had the chain I'm referring to for a couple of years, out of my desire to have that ambient space. This was long before I heard the Bricasti, and I've tried a lot of combinations. Others came close but I've settled on what I've got now. Does it emulate an M7? Probably not by A/B-ing to a guy that has a unit. It is 3-D enough to me, which was my point - especially in light of the cost for the M7, but I'd be happy to see how close I come to matching the sound. From what I heard, it sounded good, but not good enough to justify the cost - for me. Not trying to talk anyone out of their love for something they clearly love. I'm not clear on the arrangement you wanted. You wanted to send me separate acoustic and vocal tracks to mix in comparison to the track you already mixed with the Bricasti?... Sure, I can give it a go... This might be a fun and interesting thing to do I reckon... I always learn stuff out of this kind of thing. Here's what I will do. Put up an acoustic guitar track (mono) Vocal Track (mono) and a mix (stereo) The mix will be the AC guitar and Vocal and Bricasti Preset .. probably AM chamber or Hall Verb. Then lets see what people can do using their different reverb plug ins.. this would be awesome to check out things like RELAB Valhalla Ocean Way EMT PLate 140 real and UAD Expotential Reverb and any hardware boxes people have. Could be a blast listening to all the different verbs cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Aug 25, 2015 19:57:58 GMT -6
Let's not play pin the tail on the donkey, though...lol... Everybody play along at home. And I'll get to it as time allows, but I like doing stuff like this.
|
|
