|
Post by odyssey76 on Aug 10, 2015 17:55:55 GMT -6
Interesting question. One thing about the d4 is that Matt had custom transformers produced for it and picked very good OTS tubes, so lets ensure that we use the term "clone" non-purjoratively. On the diz FB page there are owner of vintage gear who state that people are picking the d4. I don't have the experience nor expertise of many who post here and i find it hard to find the words to describe the d4 but there is both a presence , clarity and naturalness to it . I know Matt is quoted as saying its transient response is very fast, so I think that speaks to its clarity and naturalness. doesn't he have performance graphs on his website ? For anyone looking for more sound samples of the D4 you should check out Matt's (kcat) tunes here in the "What Are You Working On" section. I really like the acoustic guitar sound you get with this pre. Hi-Fi, clean and detailed......
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2015 17:59:02 GMT -6
Matt,
I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival, so to hold me over can you (or anyone for that matter) please explain how negative feedback affects performance of the D4? You've mentioned it a few times in posts. Once in reference to matching across channels, and once if I'm not mistaken regarding what happens when it's pushed hard. Please feel free to go into detail for the geeks here (and I say geeks with nothing but admiration and a healthy does of jealousy), but I'd be very content and actually prefer if you can describe it in layman's terms.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 10, 2015 18:29:42 GMT -6
I will have the cellist here in 2 days and i will be using my D4 as the main pre
be happy to post some clips as I will test different mikes to see which we feel is best suited for the cello.
|
|
|
Post by dizengoff on Aug 10, 2015 18:44:30 GMT -6
dizengoffHey Matt whats the chance of getting a demo unit down here in Oz? And the comp as well? cheers Wiz Well, there are a few users in Australia currently. I recently sold one to Australian producer Tony Buchen, and he plans to talk about the D4 in an upcoming interview he's doing with Audio Technology. As for dealers...I'm currently in discussions with Audio Chocolate. They've expressed interest but we haven't arrived at any specific commitments yet. Perhaps you should contact them and ask about it . M57- The D4's circuit is built with a specific amount of gain (about 62dB). That's how much gain exists in an "open loop" state--in other words, with no negative feedback applied. To control the volume, we apply negative feedback. It's essentially a means of feeding a 180 degree out-of-phase signal from the output back into the input. The amount of signal is controlled by a resistor, and it causes the gain to drop because of phase cancellation, although to some degree it loads down the output as well. During the time that many of these valve circuits were developed, negative feedback was a rather "fashionable" way to control volume. UA used it in the 610, Altec used it, etc. The thing about using NFB to control volume is this: it does not change circuit headroom. So if you hit it hard and overload it, lowering the gain may not necessarily have an effect on the overload. This is what the pad is for. To make matters more complex, the D4 simply doesn't have the same sort of headroom as many modern solid-state preamps. So if you're using it on snare or loud sources, you'll want to use the pad. The Chandler version is similar in this regard; it's just the way EMI designed it. The good news is that it seems to like low-output microphones a lot. Hope that makes sense. Matt Dizengoff Audio
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 10, 2015 19:01:34 GMT -6
I can vouch for the pad on the d4 I have used two with LDC ( 2 diy c12's) using the glyn john's technique on drums.
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Aug 10, 2015 19:10:05 GMT -6
The REDD47 has some similarity to the V72 in that both use EF86 pentodes for input, but the overall topology is quite a bit different. REDD47 was considered an upgraded improvement for the V72 if I recall (more headroom). In this case, I've added the ability to dial in extra gain, similar to what John Hinson did with his version of the REDD47 (his work heavily influenced the D4). The 'trim' is a fine trim feature that is...odd and somewhat useless except for matching channels. I kept it for posterity's sake. One thing your friend might be hearing when it comes to vintage vs modern designs is transformer saturation behavior. Older transformer materials went through much different annealing processes than we use today, so their BH loops were not as 'square' as modern designs (IMO Mark from Samar Audio is a wealth of information on the subject, which is kind of beyond this post). With the D4, I used modern American made hi and lo nickel lams for the transformers, and I've found their permeability/consistency is excellent compared to laminates of dubious origin. I wanted something that was fairly linear for input, so we went with a very square BH loop. Output is a softer, more forgiving loop. The user will likely want to overdrive the circuit at times, and very square loops don't saturate in a pleasant way. Winding process is another crucial aspect--the fellow who helped me design the transformers is in his 80's, and is a veteran of the post WW2 Chicago transformer winding days (ex Western Electric/Stancor/Triad/Forest Electric) so he tends to prefer the WE/Peerless winding methods. We did a Peerless-type interleaving on the input because of the linearity it gave. Anyway, I digress... I don't know your friend but I have had multiple customers at this point tell me the same thing--these hold up quite well to the original V72/V76 designs. Will it hit the 'mark' and sound like a exactly like a vintage REDD47 or V72? I'd be very surprised if it does, just like the WA76 doesn't sound exactly like the old 1176's. But I think it's pretty good for what it is, especially considering the price. That's my 2 cents. Matt Dizengoff Audio Thanks for the thorough reply Matt. I feel like I'm learning a lot from this thread and you've obviously given the saturation issue a lot of thought during the design of the D4. By the way, I recently ordered a ribbon mic from Mark and eager for its arrival! And I just drummed in your town of Chicago on Saturday night at a venue called The Space--great club!
|
|
|
Post by dizengoff on Aug 10, 2015 20:03:05 GMT -6
Enjoy Mark's ribbon mic. It's beyond a work of art; one of the best ribbons available I think. Mark might not realize it (we don't really know each other), but he's heavily influenced the way I look at transformer materials and construction.
Space is in Evanston I think? It's a little bit north of me.
Matt Dizengoff Audio
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 10, 2015 20:24:41 GMT -6
Matt, I use the trim knob all the time! To be able to dial it in-between the main gain knob settings works beautifully, I can fine tune for different sources.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 10, 2015 20:42:20 GMT -6
Well, there are a few users in Australia currently. I recently sold one to Australian producer Tony Buchen, and he plans to talk about the D4 in an upcoming interview he's doing with Audio Technology. As for dealers...I'm currently in discussions with Audio Chocolate. They've expressed interest but we haven't arrived at any specific commitments yet. Perhaps you should contact them and ask about it . Matt Dizengoff Audio Audio Technology lost a lot of cred here in the last few years. Used to be good. Someone talking about something in a mag, doesn't do much for me.. 8) Audio Chocolate , they deal in a lot of high end stuff... They are aligned I think, same building, as Awave. Heres one thing to consider... I have left at least 6 messages with Awave, spoken to them 3 times, to get the replacement part for my Warm Audio 76. I sent emails to them and Bryce, spoke to Bryce on the phone... "oh yes Wiz, we will send it out next shipment... oh yes Wiz you will get it soon" pffft... Nothing , nada bupkis... I have asked Awave and Audio Chocolate for demos before. Those guys are interested in selling gear, at RRP and ordering them in. Pass I end up just buying secondhand or bringing it in from overseas... The dealer support has been non existent for me. Of course your experience might be far better than mine, as might have others... Cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by dizengoff on Aug 10, 2015 20:47:55 GMT -6
Wow, thanks for the information. I don't know a whole lot about the Australian market. Do you have any retailer recommendations?
Matt Dizengoff Audio
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Aug 10, 2015 20:56:53 GMT -6
bit off topic and don't want to load this thread down, but years ago I rang awave to ask about any possible deals on the aurora 16. hit a dead end so googled another shop and rang audio chocolate 5 minutes later. it was my humble opinion the same dude answered. could that be correct?
ended up buying from overseas and everything since has come from overseas. surely there is a reputable supplyer in Australia.
other than that I also have no real experience with Australian shops. how about sound devices? are they any good. www.sounddevices.com.au/about_us/
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 10, 2015 20:58:28 GMT -6
Wow, thanks for the information. I don't know a whole lot about the Australian market. Do you have any retailer recommendations? Matt Dizengoff Audio There is to my mind a fair bit of a problem here in this country with a lot of the dealers. The retailers have been really good, some of them. The dealers have basically sucked the market for all they could and provided nothing short of craptacular service... 8) There are exceptions of course, and everyones experience differs..... Turramurramusic are a really good retailer. Cris at Federal Audio, who does Mojave and Adam and other stuff.. is the only dealer I have dealt with in the last couple of years who has been nice enough, to send me demos of gear... Be prompt at answering enquiries, providing parts .. you know .. all the things a dealer should do. I spoke to him just now ( Don't get the wrong Idea, I don't really know him,and have no financial interest at all, but I have bought parts for my adams monitors and he was great, good service, pleasant and did what he said he would.I have gotten a couple of mics to demo off him, and sent them back without purchase) and he is going to send you an email, introducing himself. I only made contact because you asked. cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by dizengoff on Aug 10, 2015 21:53:44 GMT -6
Thanks, I appreciate that!
Matt Dizengoff Audio
|
|
|
Post by formatcyes on Aug 10, 2015 23:10:00 GMT -6
wiz would make a good retailer
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Aug 11, 2015 5:56:59 GMT -6
wiz would make a good retailer He'd make a good sound clip guy...... wiz will make any preamp sound good.... My one ass kissing of the day
|
|
|
Post by lolo on Aug 11, 2015 8:19:00 GMT -6
Most dealers here in Aus is badly overpriced imo. Like charging almost double sometimes compared to the US price.
Only place I buy from in Aus is Turramurra Music. They tend to do really good deals. And great customer service
Besided them I buy from the US or second hand.
Loving my D4 here
|
|
|
Post by dizengoff on Aug 12, 2015 8:06:16 GMT -6
Thanks for the input, guys!
Matt Dizengoff Audio
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 12, 2015 11:46:25 GMT -6
this sounds great, i imagine it would sound even better if they didn't use one of those awful u shaped boxiness inducers? 8) I really want one of these!
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 12, 2015 12:38:23 GMT -6
honestly Tony I think you'd really appreciate the D4!
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Aug 12, 2015 13:25:42 GMT -6
That seems to be a pretty accurate depiction of the tone from the D4!
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Aug 12, 2015 18:42:41 GMT -6
Wow, that's the most erotic gear demo I've ever seen! I half expected those guys to need a smoke and a cuddle after that.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Aug 14, 2015 18:57:47 GMT -6
Just opened the box and gave it a quick spin around the block, just to make sure the engine was running. Haven't had a chance to give it a critical listen, but just tracking with it sounded wonderful..
Anyway. it's a sealed box with no venting. The face didn't take long to get warm. Should I be concerned?
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Aug 14, 2015 19:46:56 GMT -6
Just opened the box and gave it a quick spin around the block, just to make sure the engine was running. Haven't had a chance to give it a critical listen, but just tracking with it sounded wonderful.. Anyway. it's a sealed box with no venting. The face didn't take long to get warm. Should I be concerned? Think of it as a toaster oven that stays conveniently next you in the rack. :-) With tube gear I would leave a 1u vented panel above it. I would be more concerned about the gear above it then itself.
|
|
|
Post by dizengoff on Aug 14, 2015 20:50:59 GMT -6
Just opened the box and gave it a quick spin around the block, just to make sure the engine was running. Haven't had a chance to give it a critical listen, but just tracking with it sounded wonderful.. Anyway. it's a sealed box with no venting. The face didn't take long to get warm. Should I be concerned? It runs warm. That's an all aluminum enclosure (good conductor) and an output stage that's biased very deeply into class A. Matt Dizengoff Audio
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Aug 15, 2015 15:30:12 GMT -6
Just opened the box and gave it a quick spin around the block, just to make sure the engine was running. Haven't had a chance to give it a critical listen, but just tracking with it sounded wonderful.. Anyway. it's a sealed box with no venting. The face didn't take long to get warm. Should I be concerned? It runs warm. That's an all aluminum enclosure (good conductor) and an output stage that's biased very deeply into class A. Matt Dizengoff Audio Thanks - One more question. I just noticed the Gain detents are labeled at +20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, then 46!, 50, 54, ..then 56, 58, 60.Why the unexpected value jumps? ..are they real? ..I can only wish it was a typo 'cause then I'd have me a collector's item.
|
|