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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 21:09:39 GMT -6
mrholmes: I find the lowend in your mix very soft and gentle. Not what i do, but it works and is totally a matter of taste, it sounds nice, not mushy at all IMO!
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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 9, 2015 21:16:40 GMT -6
Gonna take a crack at this. Great tune Wiz.
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Post by jazznoise on May 9, 2015 21:41:29 GMT -6
Okay, so just finished my own rough mix of it. Great song, really good playing and singing! Wish my stuff sounded that good with the faders at unity! My mix is a little odd. Most of the compression was done with Variety of Sound's VBL for super slow gain reduction - the only thing to get any aggressive compression was the slide guitar part. I think I had 2 mono reverb sends, 2 stereo reverbs and 2 delays. A mono vocal plate and a mono spring for the electric guitar. A stereo room reverb and then a stereo plate for when the ride kicks in. But there's lots of to-ing and fro-ing for various instruments, the sends were heavily automated. The only serious edits I did was to get one or 2 trem elec guitar strums nicer in time and the final fill at the end so the kick and the tom landed at the same time and on the beat. I also removed the backing vocals for the first chorus and I retuned the last 2 notes at the end of "Twisted thorny old crown" as they were a little sharp to my ears. Except for this one crazy edit I did on one version where for the slide solo I reversed the electric guitar parts and cut them up around it. I think I preferred it without it, but said I'd include it anyway to let people hear it. Regular version: www.dropbox.com/s/z5e4mofhhsnn81h/Fool%20Me%20Once.mp3?dl=0Reverse guitar version: www.dropbox.com/s/qhhgrsmonqpd5x3/Fool%20Me%20Once%20Reverse%20Guitar.mp3?dl=0I also said I'd comment on the other mixes I listened to for hyucks. I enjoyed them all in different ways, so here's my first listen + interpretation: @smallbutfine Classically you - nice and bright! Quite like the snare sound. Interesting decisions to lowpass the lead guitars. Trem guitar sounds great! watchtower - really interesting reverb choice. Probably the "wettest" drum sound of the bunch. Not bad, just very interesting how different a feel it gives it. Feels more..desolate? svart - I think you're the only one so far to use such a "slap" vocal sound. It's a nice country music reference, and I debated it myself but decided to make use of the space. I like the way you featured the acoustic guitar. Lots of compressor "smack" on this one! |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 22:25:33 GMT -6
Ayayaye! This is an interesting mix! I love the verb on the solo guitar, cool sound. This reverse guitar idea is also very creative. I like the version without better, but the idea is really good and it maybe could have worked perfectly if wiz would have known about it at recording time, LOL. In some places i thought the delays are too much, but then, i had to listen and found it interesting nevertheless. Nice snare and kick sounds. The decision to remove the first backing vocals i found very interesting. I think you wanted to make a difference between the choruses so there is another climax added. Very interesting. Had to hear twice to get everything...very different to what we heard yet... Thanks for the kind words about my mix! Yes, the brightness is because i am modern and listen to the sign of the times. LOL. Bright is the new loud. :-D I thought it fits wiz song. He has such a blues vibe in his expression, if i make it dark and deep in the mix, the listener could suffer from depression and sadness because wiz is so convincing. ;-) Funny sidenote: the friend of mine i mentioned earlier heard watchtower's mix and said "It's the same song as in your mix but somebody sucked out all fun and the good mood!". I laughed my ass off and explained to her that he normally mixes hardest dark metal stuff, and she had to laugh too...... |
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Post by unit7 on May 10, 2015 1:23:51 GMT -6
This is a great way to do a mixing workshop! I've downloaded the files (and Jordan's files too). I'd love to give it a shot but my life is a mess right now. Separation, selling house, moving etc etc, guess many of you know the drill. I'm fine, don't worry, but still a mess. Perhaps I'll do it in July, or by then perhaps there's something new up here.. Anyway, nice discussion. Interesting to see/hear the different things that you all do.
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 4:02:44 GMT -6
OK. No matter what you wanted to achieve wiz ... I guess it's somehow something like i come up with first, to keep the other ones coming. I chose to stay by your "recommendation" - first ... and ended up just fiddling around with a little bit of EQ and filters and adding just a touch reverb ... I am a declared fan of your tracks, so i wanted to make you sound like the Chris Rea of Oz or something like that ... but not too good. Not that you get a major deal, become a star and end up like Oz-zy O. in the end. 8) I used Mixbus for that because, well, i normally end up using like no extra plugins at all and it's hard to get anything out of it that does sound bad no matter how hard i try... Hate you for both, the talent and the recordings. ;-) If this is, what you would come up with already at recording time, if your room and money would permit buying enough units of the outboard you already have, everyone can mix the shit out of your recordings, the tracks sound great. So, really, don't buy any gear anymore. We don't want you to make even better recordings, nononono. ;-) It was great fun and it takes very little to make it sound great while mixing. Just summing without doing anything to it sounds very good. Did i mention, i hate you for that? This mix was done fast and there is not a single dynamics processor used. Well, Mixbus has nice tape emulation integrated, but that's it. No compressor, no limiter, nothing. I did not measure RMS vol. of the pure mix before i started to lay my destroying hands on it, but it's pretty dynamic and if it's too loud for you, you might turn down volume right before listening to it. Enjoy. ;-) EDITED: I edited out the two tom hits and left the rest unedited. I also tweaked the snare and kick to fit better in the mix IMO. Very minor volume adj. to balance this out again. Still - no compression added at mixtime. Final from my side now. https%3A//soundcloud.com/crazed-andconfused/peter-knight-fool-me-once-mixb25-mix-finalI decided it was a bit mean to wait off commenting, after people being so kind to post their mixes... @smallbutfine Its really interesting to hear, as the writer and player and recording engineer on this, how people have interpreted the tracks... a super valuable experience for all of us I reckon, particularly me. I am also trying to listen with as open, and unbiased mind as possible, and I have given quite a bit of thought of how to do that. So I am going to play them through and write down, my emotion listening to it and convey that. As the writer, I reckon its the way for me to hear the mixes. I think also, it will be very telling about our individual monitoring environments. I found interesting about this mix, the choice of the length of the vocal reverb. It changes the mood for me considerably. An interesting artistic choice. I wouldnt go for something that long, out of habit.. and it was great to listen to the song with that kind of treatment. Snare sounds, are also telling... Again this is a different approach to my sonics, its much brighter, and has more of a papery quality to it... which again, I find artistically interesting. I found the balancing of the guitar that plays the hook at the start, softer than I would place it, because lets face it, i am a guitar player and we always want more 8) again, worthwhile to hear someone place it at that level. I thought the resonator solo, was the highlight for me, again as the player, as I listened to it .. I thought "mmmm nice one dude" 8) I was surprised to hear the noises at the end of the track not cleaned up, and thats probably the only note I would give as the artist as a "must fix". I would need that repaired. Great stuff @smallbutfine and thank you so much for taking the time to do the mix and post, I hope it was fun.. was for me. 8) cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 4:22:07 GMT -6
Hey wiz, here's my attempt... dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1579861/Wiz%20-%20Fool%20Me%20Once%20mix1.mp3I'm not positive about an exact RMS match, but it's probably pretty close Like I said, I mix and master metal 95% of the time, so this was a lot of fun to get to work on something totally different for me, and see what happens. The "pseudo-raw"/mix tracks sound fantastic! Great job Hey watchtowerSame deal, listened through and noted my first "feelings" Really dug the Nashville acoustic sound, and thought the guitars sounded really cool overall. Again, guitar player in me wanted the les paul hook in the intro up.. .I am beginning to think thats me, not you guys... 8) Snare, i dug. As I look at my notes, I keep seeing, "balances real good". Thats a compliment, it means I am not feeling like a need to grab for a fader. Mix is quite 3D and moody, which I really like. Really nice vocal tone. Notes. thought maybe snare verb and vocal verb were disconnected a bit, but lost that as the song progressed. Couple of the Tom hits I would ask to be fixed. Again, its quite the experience, hearing the song presented like this, and it shows there is definitely quite a few ways to mix a cat 8) thanks again, for doing it and posting, very cool of you cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 4:22:57 GMT -6
The thing that is really interesting, is these mixes are making me hear things, I want to fix in the performances... valuable lesson there.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 4:40:55 GMT -6
Ok here's my quick one. www.theopiumdenproductions.com/wiz/mixdown.mp3I had tonight free from all obligations besides beer, so I loaded everything up and took a shot! I was surprised at how low the levels on the tracks were. I had to boost each track up 15dB to get it to where I usually have tracks peaking.. And to get my outboard gear VUs to start moving. Anyway, here's what I did: Acoustic has some 2.2K boost, some 180 boost on it and was bussed to a stereo delay with one side at 0 and the other side at 10ms to get it to sound somewhat stereo, then sent to a bus with an 1178. Electrics were bussed to a pair of channels, a little top removed, a little bottom removed, then sent to the 1178 bus for compression. Each was panned a bit off center. Snare has some top boost, a cut around 5K, narrow boost around 180, with bluestripe 1176 on it, -6ish GR. This was sent to a bus with a 33609/2254 hybrid on it. 2:1, -6GR. Kick has some 7k boost, some 70 boost. Sent to the 33609 bus. Cymbals have some 5K cut, some 400 cut. Sent to the 33609 bus. Bass has some narrow 100 boost, some 800 cut, LA4A crushing at -15GR. Vocals have a little 500 cut, some cut around 2k. LA2A peaking at -8GR. Some uncompressed vocals brought up under, maybe -6dB down from the compressed ones. Background vocals are flat, sent to a delay with one side at 0 and the other at 10ms for widening. There is a little spring verb and a little room verb on everything in different amounts, just for some ambience. Master bus has a SSL bus compressor on it, 4:1, 2-4dB GR. That's all. I'm sure some automation would help the movement a bit, but I think it sounds pretty damn good as-is. Oh and it's all hardware you hear besides the delay. This one so far, is the most different sounding to me, which is cool.. in fact so far each mix really is quite different in the sonic picture they paint. The stereo treatment of the Nashville Yamaha is really quite cool, and a real surprise. Made me think about adding a track 8) good one! I thought the Bass compression, even though a lot by what you wrote, gave the bass a nice movement the release time of that was really working for me in terms of providing a really really nice groove.. LA4A you say? hmmmm (going to have to check eBay 8) ) Vocal Harms sound BIG! The reverbs is BIG! made me want for some pre delay though, note 1. Biggest note, the vocal felt buried somewhat, same with the resonator. I would lean over and ask for those to come up I reckon, it might be because other elements are so large, but I think they are down for me. Again, the tom hits aren't fixed... (Evil grin) and I wouldnt leave the noises at the end of the track. Really cool though, and lovely to hear all that gooey hardware on the mix... Again, my honest thanks for taking the time to do it and post, its really cool of you cheers Wiz |
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2015 4:50:24 GMT -6
I'm working on a 'neophyte/ITB/nowhere near this league/but I'm giving it a shot' mix. I'm fully expecting it to be used as the 'what not to do' reference track and would be grateful for all nits and crits, with no holding back on the honesty sauce.
Now, which one of these buttons turns on the reverb..??
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 4:57:15 GMT -6
Wiz. It was a pleasure to mix it because the lyrics did not let me go. I can identify myself with the story. Thanks for the nice song. First class songwriters very seldom knock on the door, you are one of those. Cheers. Holmes On the mix. Its all ITB Logic 9 just bounced to disk. I used the Airwindows (Audio Units only) mix-buss-replacement Console3 in conjunction with BussColors. Its Chris Johnson’s take on simulating the "saturation" part of a console. I mixed with the Rock setting which claims to simulate an SSL sound. To me the setting was the one that sounded the most open, for this song. It gave me the best depth and dimension. The verbs are all UAD-Real-Verb-Pro together with some delays. Except the drum room is an impulse response of a brick-drum-ISO at SARM Studios UK made by Altiverb. A very small breeze of dimension is used on the acoustic guitar with logics Ensemble plug in. The file is the pure mix, no limiter, no bullshit, no loudening. I listened AB to professional mixes with the Magic-AB plug in. JJ Cale was the reference - Album REWIND. I am not totally satisfied. To my taste the low end is not where it should be. I hope someone likes it. You can download as 24/96 file 140 MB www.dropbox.com/s/snku3b3ctfwrtqo/fool_me_once_wiz.aif?dl=0first of all, I LOVE JJ CALE!!! he is the reason my latest album is called what it is.... 8) Again, I play this, and I am instantly struck by how different this approach is, and that is unbelievably cool. So far there hasn't been one mix, that hasn't given me something really artistically positive to think about for the song, great great stuff! This mix deserves a few brownie points for going in a different direction. Balances are good, and the bottom end is soft, which is really interesting. I thought the Resonator reverb choice was excellent. I liked the soft kick drum, almost made it sound like a felt beater, that was cool. You got rid of the tom problems, .. you got rid of the toms.. .LOL 8) kudos for having a sharp stanley knife there... 8) The backing vocal effect, I guess is the most obvious twist.. and I like it.. .though, probably not all the way through and probably not as heavy handed, but, again it made me sit up and go, you know those backing vocals could have something done to them to enhance the track, and a subtle effect could be really cool.. nice one. The biggest note, the drums. I felt the replaced snare, too samey, I like where you were going, and why you did it... but the snare rolls I did got lost, and that nuance was gone. The cymbal crashes I had a problem with. They were disconnected for me.. one loud, then one distant. The other thing, was the noise, akin to tape hiss at the beginning and end... that would be a change, I would get rid of that... some love tape hiss...not me 8) They are the things I would change. Overall, what a cool perspective and bold choices.. which as an artist, you just have to respect and congratulate. great stuff, and I know I sound like a stuck record, but I really really appreciate the time and effort and hope everyone is having fun cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 5:17:21 GMT -6
Okay, so just finished my own rough mix of it. Great song, really good playing and singing! Wish my stuff sounded that good with the faders at unity! My mix is a little odd. Most of the compression was done with Variety of Sound's VBL for super slow gain reduction - the only thing to get any aggressive compression was the slide guitar part. I think I had 2 mono reverb sends, 2 stereo reverbs and 2 delays. A mono vocal plate and a mono spring for the electric guitar. A stereo room reverb and then a stereo plate for when the ride kicks in. But there's lots of to-ing and fro-ing for various instruments, the sends were heavily automated. The only serious edits I did was to get one or 2 trem elec guitar strums nicer in time and the final fill at the end so the kick and the tom landed at the same time and on the beat. I also removed the backing vocals for the first chorus and I retuned the last 2 notes at the end of "Twisted thorny old crown" as they were a little sharp to my ears. Except for this one crazy edit I did on one version where for the slide solo I reversed the electric guitar parts and cut them up around it. I think I preferred it without it, but said I'd include it anyway to let people hear it. Regular version: www.dropbox.com/s/z5e4mofhhsnn81h/Fool%20Me%20Once.mp3?dl=0Reverse guitar version: www.dropbox.com/s/qhhgrsmonqpd5x3/Fool%20Me%20Once%20Reverse%20Guitar.mp3?dl=0I also said I'd comment on the other mixes I listened to for hyucks. I enjoyed them all in different ways, so here's my first listen + interpretation: @smallbutfine Classically you - nice and bright! Quite like the snare sound. Interesting decisions to lowpass the lead guitars. Trem guitar sounds great! watchtower - really interesting reverb choice. Probably the "wettest" drum sound of the bunch. Not bad, just very interesting how different a feel it gives it. Feels more..desolate? svart - I think you're the only one so far to use such a "slap" vocal sound. It's a nice country music reference, and I debated it myself but decided to make use of the space. I like the way you featured the acoustic guitar. Lots of compressor "smack" on this one! again, something out of left field which is so cool.. reversed guitar.... Whilst where it was in the tune, didn't really spin my wheels, it made my eyes open up and think, man how cool would that be in the outro, as a way of adding a color change during the repeat chorus's.. that kind of idea... again, something that immediately made me think artistically about the tune.. so cool. Really interesting use of verbs and delays on this....you are a verb and delay guy by the sound of it... 8) The bottom end on this song is different again, they all have been, and this like all the others is very cool in its own way. The Backing Vocal levels, right in the pocket for me... standout. Toms sound really good... the fix isn't in yet though 8) The reverse guitar, I already mentioned.. cool.. and thought provoking. The snare, sounds like I had the bottom of the snare mic'd which I didn't, 8) , you will have to say what you did there, that was interesting. I felt the compression overdone on the resonator...and maybe the Hats EQ (overheads) a little strident. But really good mix and you nailed the RMS ask ... very cool.. you know what I am gonna say by now, thanks for the time and effort to do it... just a great thing to have happen. cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 5:20:43 GMT -6
I think i am up to date... If I am not ... throw something at me... @smallbutfine watchtowersvartmrholmesjazznoiseagain, everyone.. so cool to hear all the different approaches and so far , the creative approaches are probably the most surprising, and the positive artistic effect that has had on me.... really.. .very positive. Also, the bottom end, panning choices and verb choices all again , eye opening. thanks again real dudes! cheers Wiz |
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Post by odyssey76 on May 10, 2015 5:45:49 GMT -6
wiz - I got a pretty decent start last night but please don't hold up the process on my account. I think there may be a couple others who haven't uploaded anything yet as well so I'm only speaking for myself. I'm not going to listen to anyone's mixes until I'm finished although it's killing me right now 
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Post by wiz on May 10, 2015 5:48:42 GMT -6
wiz - I got a pretty decent start last night but please don't hold up the process on my account. I think there may be a couple others who haven't uploaded anything yet as well so I'm only speaking for myself. I'm not going to listen to anyone's mixes until I'm finished although it's killing me right now cool yeah I will listen and comment as they come in.. cheers Wiz |
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Post by jazznoise on May 10, 2015 6:59:19 GMT -6
jazznoiseagain, something out of left field which is so cool.. reversed guitar.... Whilst where it was in the tune, didn't really spin my wheels, it made my eyes open up and think, man how cool would that be in the outro, as a way of adding a color change during the repeat chorus's.. that kind of idea... again, something that immediately made me think artistically about the tune.. so cool. Really interesting use of verbs and delays on this....you are a verb and delay guy by the sound of it... 8) The bottom end on this song is different again, they all have been, and this like all the others is very cool in its own way. The Backing Vocal levels, right in the pocket for me... standout. Toms sound really good... the fix isn't in yet though 8) The reverse guitar, I already mentioned.. cool.. and thought provoking. The snare, sounds like I had the bottom of the snare mic'd which I didn't, 8) , you will have to say what you did there, that was interesting. I felt the compression overdone on the resonator...and maybe the Hats EQ (overheads) a little strident. But really good mix and you nailed the RMS ask ... very cool.. you know what I am gonna say by now, thanks for the time and effort to do it... just a great thing to have happen. cheers Wiz Thanks so much , Wiz, I didn't really like how the reverse turned out either but said I'd show it to you just for the sake of it. I'm really flattered that you're inspired by the idea. I guess I just heard the beautiful minimalism in the guitar and thought of some of John Frusciante's work, and that led me on to the idea. Something left field of straight country, but still complimentary. The snare drum hasn't much special going on - I EQ'd out 2 midrange resonances around 400Hz and 750Hz and then a gentle 5Khz shelf adding about 2.5dB of top end. The compressor is just 4:1 with a 7mS attack and a 70mS release. The bright plate and the room (incidentally the panning on the room reverb is reversed for the rhythm guitars, but not for the OH's..as the drum has its own predelay bus. Actually if anyone wants me to talk through my reverb nonsuch please ask, as it's quite the little write up) are what add that sizzle, but is probably what makes the hats a little aggressive. There is no compression on the overheads whatsoever. I'm inclined to agree when the open hat section came in, but I didn't take the time to correct it. I can agree with the resonator guitar. It's definitely effect style compression and makes it a little "small" sounding in retrospect. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of reverb, but I think changing reverbs and delays can be a subtle way to introduce changes and suggest cues. I'm a huge delay fan, but I felt it wouldn't do the musical space in this song justice. Out of curiosity - is it a "wet" sounding mix to others? (Except the spring on the guitar. I'm a sucker for springs. Don't judge me!)
Gutted I didn't find the tom issue, time to review! Though if we can't hear it, maybe it isn't really there  |
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2015 8:57:49 GMT -6
My mix: soundcloud.com/m57/fool-me-once-m57-mix/s-gzVC2All in the Logic box with nothing on the 2-buss but a tiny bit of EQ. Man, does it sound different than the others! I must have used more toys to cover up my deficiencies. I did not know what to do with those tom tracks; I gated the snot out of one and dramatically EQed the other for sonic character, using both quite lightly. |
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Post by mrholmes on May 10, 2015 9:59:41 GMT -6
Wiz. It was a pleasure to mix it because the lyrics did not let me go. I can identify myself with the story. Thanks for the nice song. First class songwriters very seldom knock on the door, you are one of those. Cheers. Holmes On the mix. Its all ITB Logic 9 just bounced to disk. I used the Airwindows (Audio Units only) mix-buss-replacement Console3 in conjunction with BussColors. Its Chris Johnson’s take on simulating the "saturation" part of a console. I mixed with the Rock setting which claims to simulate an SSL sound. To me the setting was the one that sounded the most open, for this song. It gave me the best depth and dimension. The verbs are all UAD-Real-Verb-Pro together with some delays. Except the drum room is an impulse response of a brick-drum-ISO at SARM Studios UK made by Altiverb. A very small breeze of dimension is used on the acoustic guitar with logics Ensemble plug in. The file is the pure mix, no limiter, no bullshit, no loudening. I listened AB to professional mixes with the Magic-AB plug in. JJ Cale was the reference - Album REWIND. I am not totally satisfied. To my taste the low end is not where it should be. I hope someone likes it. You can download as 24/96 file 140 MB www.dropbox.com/s/snku3b3ctfwrtqo/fool_me_once_wiz.aif?dl=0first of all, I LOVE JJ CALE!!! he is the reason my latest album is called what it is.... 8) Again, I play this, and I am instantly struck by how different this approach is, and that is unbelievably cool. So far there hasn't been one mix, that hasn't given me something really artistically positive to think about for the song, great great stuff! This mix deserves a few brownie points for going in a different direction. Balances are good, and the bottom end is soft, which is really interesting. I thought the Resonator reverb choice was excellent. I liked the soft kick drum, almost made it sound like a felt beater, that was cool. You got rid of the tom problems, .. you got rid of the toms.. .LOL 8) kudos for having a sharp stanley knife there... 8) The backing vocal effect, I guess is the most obvious twist.. and I like it.. .though, probably not all the way through and probably not as heavy handed, but, again it made me sit up and go, you know those backing vocals could have something done to them to enhance the track, and a subtle effect could be really cool.. nice one. The biggest note, the drums. I felt the replaced snare, too samey, I like where you were going, and why you did it... but the snare rolls I did got lost, and that nuance was gone. The cymbal crashes I had a problem with. They were disconnected for me.. one loud, then one distant. The other thing, was the noise, akin to tape hiss at the beginning and end... that would be a change, I would get rid of that... some love tape hiss...not me 8) They are the things I would change. Overall, what a cool perspective and bold choices.. which as an artist, you just have to respect and congratulate. great stuff, and I know I sound like a stuck record, but I really really appreciate the time and effort and hope everyone is having fun cheers Wiz Thanks for the nice words. Will work on those things and send you a new file, otherwise alle the work would have been stupid till now. No the snare in this file is the original one, I will replace it now..... because i think it cuts too much for the feel of the song. The cymbals but mh..... they bleeded nearly in every mic, and that made them hard to handle. Give me a few days, maybe end of next week and I will correct all the things you do not like. Thanks for the nice feedback. |
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2015 13:10:57 GMT -6
This has been a blast, and boy am I learning. I had no idea that the mixes would be THAT different. After I posted my mix, I did a bit of A/Bing of each of the others to mine, doing my best to level match. Here are my initial thoughts: ------ smallbutfine: Brighter EQ gestalt. Higher center of ambiance. Wider Stage. Snare hotter. More Reverb on Vocal. Really like the shimmer on the acoustic. watchtower: Darker gestalt. Snare is hotter. Stage width is most similar to mine. Tight Snare svart: Lower relative vocal level, making a little tougher to level match. Bass louder in relation to the Kick. Not Darker or Brighter gestalt, but different, with perhaps a slightly higher center of ambiance. Wider Stage. Like where how he spreads the BVs. mrholmes: Similar levels - not much need to level-match. Very snary snare is dry and hotter. Much softer Kick. Nice ambient gestalt - slightly darker and lower center of ambiance. jazznoise: Lower lead vocal. More reverb on vocal. Slightly wider stage. Slightly darker and more dense. Very pleasing ambiant gestalt. donr: My kick is bigger (as usual), but I can hear the beater on this one. Bass is among the biggest of the bunch. Has more reverb on the vocal and a wider stage in general. Also has a darker ambiance in general, but I really like it. Makes mine sound boxy like I should be pulling out the mids on more instruments. ----- M57 (that would be me): Loudest and fattest kick in relation to bass - I think I brought out the beater more than anyone else. Tendency for the mix to be more dense than the others (with the exception of jazz noise). Drums and especially the snare sound further back on the stage. I'm not displeased with how the "ambiance/frequency gestalt" sits. Perhaps a bit more FM Rock sounding than country, but hey - watch gonna do?? soundcloud.com/m57/fool-me-once-m57-mix/s-gzVC2 www.dropbox.com/s/fmp3guld7r6ep0i/Fool%20Me%20Once%20M57%20Mix_1.wav?dl=0So the good news is, I’m not embarrassed ...yet. I really, really would appreciate thoughts, criticism and advice. |
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Post by donr on May 11, 2015 21:43:04 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on May 12, 2015 5:12:48 GMT -6
I'd say I spent about the same amount of time on my mix. Just gave a listen to yours at work on different speakers, but on better monitors than I have in my studio. I'm adding a comparison to my 'comparison' post. |
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Post by M57 on May 12, 2015 5:23:52 GMT -6
As I go over my notes and listen to the other mixes, it makes me want to go back and twiddle some knobs on mine. But I have some questions..
As you can see in my notes (just a few posts up from this one), I'm really focused on the EQ 'ambiance' of the mix. They're ALL significantly different. Sometimes I like mine, and sometimes I don't. Can someone possibly comment on what's creating all these differences? I don't doubt that it's a combination of things like equalization, verbs, compression, but I'm curious to hear people's opinion on what the dominant factors are, and if they can identify them specifically by listening to these different mixes.
Why does everyone practically hard-pan that acoustic guitar? I can't say I'm a huge fan of these super wide stages. I may try and widen mine a tad, but I have to admit I like a tighter stage. Any thoughts on this?
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Post by jazznoise on May 12, 2015 8:13:45 GMT -6
So I did a breakdown of my mix here - I think it'd be cool if others talked about what they think is interesting about there's to a similar extentI've some twiddling to do also, fear not! I do, however, have no idea what you mean by EQ ambience. I honestly think it's mix philosophy and habits. When it comes to the overall mix tone: I try to leave that to the instruments. I usually hope the artist and engineer knew what they were doing and had an end vision in sight and just needed me to tighten a few screws. But that's also because I generally mix what I record, so I make sure I'm just tightening screws. It's pretty rare I feel a mix benefits from adding crazy top or bottom when it isn't already there. On mine you're probably not "hearing" any compression except the slide, the vocal only has 2 or 3 dB taken off the hottest parts. The EQ is generally shelving filters and the odd notch. I often leave vocals to last if I hear other mix problems they're masking, but sometimes I'd go the other way and build the track around it. With this much space I definitely started with the instruments and muted all the vocals for the first while, just turning them on occasionally to check. Several of my instruments have no EQ, including the electric guitar and the lead vocals. However my reverb returns do, and I guess it's come up enough that I'll just talk about them. My Spring Reverb is the Softube Spring Reverb with the outputs summed to mono and a low shelf cutting about 3 dB off the spring reverb return (fed by: Les Paul lead, vocal 16th note delay and the slide guitar [with the return hardpanned L for this section]. 32nd note predelay so it can be loud but a little more distinct. Vox Plate is an instance of the Tal II plate plugin with the outputs summed to mono and a long predelay. The Send is heavily automated to exaggerated certain words or fill out phrases - like when he sings "house". It's also fed by the resonator slide, hard panned R for that section. Vox Delay is also mono, it's the Nasty DLA plugin with a 94 mS and a 251mS delay. I just decided to turn off the tempo matching and set them so they sound good. My Drum Plate is a pretty short Tal II setting with 0 predelay (because the predelay comes from a bus with delay for the drums that alternately feeds the Plate or Room return depending on what part of the song it is). Fed by Backing Vocals, Drum Predelay (mostly when the ride kicks in, though always a little bit) and Nashville Lead (For those chords strummed in the middle). This plugin has a bit of a centre channel build up so, as I often do with this, I M/S'd it to take some of the centre out to make the Stereo-Mono collapse a little more even. The Room Reverb is just a medium sized room IR with a little added predelay and some very loose low end and mid range sculpting. Fed by Drum Predelay, Backing Vocals, Les Paul Traditional Rhythm and Nashville (panning flipped on the returns for the LP and Nashville to stop them feeling too disjointed). Of course the most significant peice of processing in a mix is level changing. Changing the levels will change the resulting tone of the mix the most drastically. That's probably something I did the least of - many of the instruments are very close to where he had them. Why not? It sounded good, it's what the artist was aiming for. I TOOK SCREENCAPS WOAHHH: Spring: www.dropbox.com/s/9904o33o87pnquu/Mono%20Spring.png?dl=0Vox Plate: www.dropbox.com/s/eimhjug0rqev7lz/Vox%20Plate.png?dl=0Vox Delay: www.dropbox.com/s/ktb3lp97mc5k0hy/Vox%20Delay.png?dl=0Drum Plate: www.dropbox.com/s/h87kh6v157b320o/Drum%20Plate.png?dl=0Drum Plate EQ: www.dropbox.com/s/7n5hfdum631ve8a/Drum%20Plate%20EQ.png?dl=0
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Post by mrholmes on May 12, 2015 9:43:56 GMT -6
Here is my revision take on it with the following changes. 1. I did try to make all the changes mentioned by Wiz. I hope its better than in the first round. 2. To my taste, weather I replace the snare or I use the original one. Its some kind of disturbing in this song. I decided to put the snare way back into the drum room. 3. Good to listen a few days later to the mix again. I pulled the lead vocals a few dbs down and took out some S sharpens around 3 khz. 4. I had to kill some of the Ride-hits because they are too much for my taste, and some are inconsistent played. I would have fought with them forever in the mix. I gave my best for a compromise. 5. Took of some 3-4 khz at the Slide-Guitar which made it more pleasing to the ears. 7. I am very happy with the low end now it glues more together. I did hit the tape sim on the mixbus a little harder. 6. May some of you hear that this version of the mix sounds more open, airy and vibey. May some of you think I have used EQ. I did not. Here is the background story to this: Yesterday evening I read in SOS an article about the SLATE VCC. To my surprise the writer mentioned that he measured the VCC, and he not only found massive HF crosstalk, even a lot of HF phase issues. I was even more surprised that Developer Fabrice told the writer „that this have been measured on the original console too“ I knew that Chris of Airwindows did not simulated the cornstalk in his Console3 Plug In. But I use it, and I like it for its 50 bucks. I was curious if I can change something about this. Here is what I did.I opened up an AUX named X TALK I did put an EQ on which had more HF than LF energy and I did use the Freebie-Klanghelm IVIG with its X TALK button cranked, set the saturation low down. Every channel got a tiny little bit of this. This channel is playing low down at −80 in the highs up to −90 dbfs. That was good, but not good enough it still sounded a bit lifeless and not airy like on my console. I used HF-Spread on the mix bus. With it I get my HF- phase issues simulated! It opens up the mix in a light and pleasing way. Very close to what I know from the A+H console. I do like this openness   Now it sounds more connected, its subtle but its there. ORIGINAL MIX: www.dropbox.com/s/snku3b3ctfwrtqo/fool_me_once_wiz.aif?dl=0REVISION: www.dropbox.com/s/wltp5bpmxgs6wot/FOOL_WIZ.aif?dl=0PS: To my surprise thats the first ITB mix which I really like. It translates well also in my car, it sounds good on my old 80s blaster.... cool. |
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Post by M57 on May 12, 2015 10:00:15 GMT -6
.. I do, however, have no idea what you mean by EQ ambience. That's because I made up the phrase - It may be a poor choice of words, and there is undoubtedly a better word or set of descriptors. But if I play any part of these mixes for just 2 or 3 seconds, I find each one to be colored differently. It's like I'm hearing a different set of overtones over the entire mix, in a way not dissimilar to how people hear the difference between microphones or preamps in a shoot-out. Darker and Brighter are pretty commonly used terms that I consider to be a sub-category of the EQ ambiance ..or EQ gestalt, but it's more sophisticated than that if you think of it in terms of not just the way things are EQed, but also the way the 'air' changes because of different overtone colorations. There ..I'd better stop because I'm already talking in circles. |
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