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Post by wiz on May 6, 2015 1:19:26 GMT -6
I am adding the bits between the asterix's to help with some confusion ************************** You load it, set the mixer up as I suggested and play through it... think of it as the clients rough mix to you. You then decide, artistically and sonically what it needs. You find the couple of tracking errors in the project and fix them, if you think it needs fixing. You do your "mix thing" be it parallel compression, summing, special effects what ever you think Maybe Dr Bill can run the mix through his silver bullet.. that sort of thing My idea is, we all have the same starting point. But we will end up with a bunch of diffent mixes, and in some cases arrangement changes. That way, if there is some treatment someone does to something that you like, you can ask them about it... and see sonically what it did. Also, the artist has asked that the resultant mix for the Mastering Engineer be no louder than this rough mix.. it can have reduced crest factor but not an overall increase of loudness.... Artists feh ! 8) ****************************** I thought this might be interesting. Maybe it won't be? 8) www.dropbox.com/s/8c1epjtw7l8cll4/Fool%20Me%20Once.zip?dl=0Here is a song I just wrote and tracked. "Fool Me Once" 112Bpm 96khz 24bit Wave Files I thought it might be interesting if people wanted to have a mix.. we often hear about things like parallel compression on drums, and this and that, this plug in, Ocean Way this, Briscasti that... 8) So these tracks are all me recorded here in my studio. I tracked these things, then they have been re amped through my outboard, things like WA76, WA - TEC, Drip STA, Drip LA2A, LA500s etc This is normal for me to do this... as a one man show, with limited outboard, it sort of simulates what I would do, if I had more gear at the tracking stage.. This should also function as a unity fader mix for you... with the exception of the back harmonies, which need to be pulled 6dB. I would pan like this. Kick Snare Bass Vocal Solos Center Ride and Hat half left and right (audience perspective) Nashville Acoustic Hard Left (ride side) Les Paul Tremelo Rythm Hard Right (hat side) so its a LCR mix, with the exception of Overheads (Ride and Hat) which are just around half way left and right (Pan law vagaries aside) The kick drum is an edited pattern, I had played it with the kick on 1 and 3 and wanted a few hits in there.... There are a couple of things, that need fixing "hint" a tom hit perhaps... but I want to see what people miss... evil snigger... 8) So load in the tracks, set the pans and those backing vocals faders as I said and you should hear what I hear, pan law aside. Lets hear what people come up with So we can have apples with apples.. .You are not allowed to make it louder. No louder... be good for you to have some headroom in there... you can limit, compress all you want.. but do not raise the RMS level. I also don't mind if you edit the arrangement or add or remove things.. just not louder... 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 1:49:27 GMT -6
What? But,.....i mean,... the L in FabFilter-L stands for Louder! Louder is better! Loud is like ... electrolytes! It's good for you! But o.k.. It's your music. You will have to deal with all the mediocre high dynamic range undistorted mixes. All your fault....
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Post by gouge on May 6, 2015 1:57:12 GMT -6
I'm always keen for these things as I learn a lot.
In the studio tonight so I've booked it.
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Post by odyssey76 on May 6, 2015 4:06:57 GMT -6
Very cool wiz! I'll give this a shot as well. Sounds fun....
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 6, 2015 8:12:05 GMT -6
I love this stuff, but have been booked solid lately. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to give this a go.
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Post by svart on May 6, 2015 8:37:04 GMT -6
Yeah, I need to download this and test myself with it.
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Post by mrholmes on May 6, 2015 19:22:04 GMT -6
wiz do net set rules like paning etc. let the spirits flow... and we might come up discussing intresting mix ideas instead of gear talk....
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Post by wiz on May 6, 2015 19:34:31 GMT -6
wiz do net set rules like paning etc. let the spirits flow... and we might come up dicussing intresting mix ideas instead of gear talk.... You can't tell me what to do 8).... Not a rule.. just a way to hear, what I hear the arrangement as ... you can do what you like.. just DONT MAKE IT LOUDER ... 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 23:16:12 GMT -6
And....are we allowed to make it quieter? Just asking. You confused me completely with your totalitarian approach to mixes...
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Post by wiz on May 7, 2015 0:12:57 GMT -6
And....are we allowed to make it quieter? Just asking. You confused me completely with your totalitarian approach to mixes... "Don't you oppress me... come see the violence inherent in the system..." "True power derives from a mandate from the masses.... not some watery tart in a fishpond handing out swords" 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by odyssey76 on May 7, 2015 3:22:01 GMT -6
And....are we allowed to make it quieter? Just asking. You confused me completely with your totalitarian approach to mixes... Awwww, you ruined it! Now I have to start my mix all over again. I was enjoying the gain staging doesn't matter approach because nothing is loud enough to push the next piece of gear in line. No needles moving, no lights blinking......
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 16:32:25 GMT -6
OK. No matter what you wanted to achieve wiz ... I guess it's somehow something like i come up with first, to keep the other ones coming. I chose to stay by your "recommendation" - first ... and ended up just fiddling around with a little bit of EQ and filters and adding just a touch reverb ... I am a declared fan of your tracks, so i wanted to make you sound like the Chris Rea of Oz or something like that ... but not too good. Not that you get a major deal, become a star and end up like Oz-zy O. in the end. 8) I used Mixbus for that because, well, i normally end up using like no extra plugins at all and it's hard to get anything out of it that does sound bad no matter how hard i try... Hate you for both, the talent and the recordings. ;-) If this is, what you would come up with already at recording time, if your room and money would permit buying enough units of the outboard you already have, everyone can mix the shit out of your recordings, the tracks sound great. So, really, don't buy any gear anymore. We don't want you to make even better recordings, nononono. ;-) It was great fun and it takes very little to make it sound great while mixing. Just summing without doing anything to it sounds very good. Did i mention, i hate you for that? This mix was done fast and there is not a single dynamics processor used. Well, Mixbus has nice tape emulation integrated, but that's it. No compressor, no limiter, nothing. I did not measure RMS vol. of the pure mix before i started to lay my destroying hands on it, but it's pretty dynamic and if it's too loud for you, you might turn down volume right before listening to it. Enjoy. ;-) EDITED: I edited out the two tom hits and left the rest unedited. I also tweaked the snare and kick to fit better in the mix IMO. Very minor volume adj. to balance this out again. Still - no compression added at mixtime. Final from my side now. https%3A//soundcloud.com/crazed-andconfused/peter-knight-fool-me-once-mixb25-mix-final
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Post by watchtower on May 7, 2015 17:38:41 GMT -6
Thanks, wiz. I'd love to participate, as I don't get to mix non-metal things often, and I'm currently in-between projects.
Just to be clear, your link is all raw files, and you were just saying in your own mix you re-amped through hardware?
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Post by wiz on May 7, 2015 18:16:48 GMT -6
Thanks, wiz. I'd love to participate, as I don't get to mix non-metal things often, and I'm currently in-between projects. Just to be clear, your link is all raw files, and you were just saying in your own mix you re-amped through hardware? The files in the download are the reamped files. I track with no outboard. Then I reamp with outboard. (essentially imitating what I would actually do at tracking time If I had enough outboard and wasn't playing everything myself.) The resultant files in the download, are what I would call "Tracking files". You push up the faders on the board to unity, (apart from those backing vox which are about 6dB too hot) and thats your starting point. I suggested the pan settings, so you can put the files in your DAW, pan them as I suggested, pull the backing vocal faders 6dB and you will hear what I hear, when I start to mix. This way, everyone has the same starting point.. its like I included a rough mix .. which in hind sight would have confused everybody less. . 8) ************************** You load it, set the mixer up as I suggested and play through it... think of it as the clients rough mix to you. You then decide, artistically and sonically what it needs. You find the couple of tracking errors in the project and fix them, if you think it needs fixing. You do your "mix thing" be it parallel compression, summing, special effects what ever you think Maybe Dr Bill can run the mix through his silver bullet.. that sort of thing My idea is, we all have the same starting point. But we will end up with a bunch of diffent mixes, and in some cases arrangement changes. That way, if there is some treatment someone does to something that you like, you can ask them about it... and see sonically what it did. Also, the artist has asked that the resultant mix for the Mastering Engineer be no louder than this rough mix.. it can have reduced crest factor but not an overall increase of loudness.... Artists feh ! 8) ****************************** Cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on May 7, 2015 18:19:48 GMT -6
OK. No matter what you wanted to achieve wiz ... I guess it's somehow something like i come up with first, to keep the other ones coming. I chose to stay by your "recommendation" - first ... and ended up just fiddling around with a little bit of EQ and filters and adding just a touch reverb ... I am a declared fan of your tracks, so i wanted to make you sound like the Chris Rea of Oz or something like that ... but not too good. Not that you get a major deal, become a star and end up like Oz-zy O. in the end. 8) I used Mixbus for that because, well, i normally end up using like no extra plugins at all and it's hard to get anything out of it that does sound bad no matter how hard i try... Hate you for both, the talent and the recordings. ;-) If this is, what you would come up with already at recording time, if your room and money would permit buying enough units of the outboard you already have, everyone can mix the shit out of your recordings, the tracks sound great. So, really, don't buy any gear anymore. We don't want you to make even better recordings, nononono. ;-) It was great fun and it takes very little to make it sound great while mixing. Just summing without doing anything to it sounds very good. Did i mention, i hate you for that? This mix was done fast and there is not a single dynamics processor used. Well, Mixbus has nice tape emulation integrated, but that's it. No compressor, no limiter, nothing. I did not measure RMS vol. of the pure mix before i started to lay my destroying hands on it, but it's pretty dynamic and if it's too loud for you, you might turn down volume right before listening to it. Enjoy. ;-) https%3A//soundcloud.com/crazed-andconfused/peter-knight-fool-me-once-mixb25-mixCool stuff! and congrats for having the cahones to be the first ! 8) I think I might hold off commenting for a few days and then come back as the "artist" and comment on everyones mixes.. that way anything I say doesn't prejudice those that follow. thanks so much for doing it! cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on May 7, 2015 18:22:26 GMT -6
Note, I added the "instructions" to the first post, in the hope of clearing up some confusion
hopefull I didn't add to it
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 18:58:40 GMT -6
Thanks wiz. It's a pleasure to mix with your rough (mix) tracks. At the point of the mix, i did no editing at all and there are at least 2 quirks that have to be corrected near the end that really annoy me. You already mentioned there are some minor track errors... I need to get a bit practise in Mixbus editing, and experiments like this one are a good opportunity... I will update my link once it's done, but otherwise, the mix will stay as it is. I really just did what i wrote, a bit eq-ing in the tracks and filtering in the groups and adjusting the levels to my taste, very minimal stuff to get a solid mix. Might be a good example that sometimes you don't even need *any* compression and fancy stuff to make things sound good, if the tracks are recorded well. Just EQ can do alot.
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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2015 19:13:45 GMT -6
I am busy but I hope to mix it a little because of your multi million dollar voice.....love it. Maybe I have time on sunday....
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Post by odyssey76 on May 7, 2015 19:35:34 GMT -6
Started running all the tracks through my VP28's and realized (1/2 hr. later) that the HP filters were engaged at 80 Hz.
Proceeded to drop an f-bomb and picked up my bass and did some tracking of my own.......
Will try again on Saturday.
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Post by odyssey76 on May 7, 2015 19:39:24 GMT -6
Thanks wiz. It's a pleasure to mix with your rough (mix) tracks. At the point of the mix, i did no editing at all and there are at least 2 quirks that have to be corrected near the end that really annoy me. You already mentioned there are some minor track errors... I need to get a bit practise in Mixbus editing, and experiments like this one are a good opportunity... I will update my link once it's done, but otherwise, the mix will stay as it is. I really just did what i wrote, a bit eq-ing in the tracks and filtering in the groups and adjusting the levels to my taste, very minimal stuff to get a solid mix. Might be a good example that sometimes you don't even need *any* compression and fancy stuff to make things sound good, if the tracks are recorded well. Just EQ can do alot. Just listened and sounds nice. Very good balances. I agree that this track doesn't need much although I'll try a bunch of stuff anyway. Good job
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 21:17:41 GMT -6
Just listened and sounds nice. Very good balances. I agree that this track doesn't need much although I'll try a bunch of stuff anyway. Good job Thanks alot odyssey76! I just updated my post with the final version with just 2 small edits. I (as always, sigh) decided to re-eq kick and snare to get a bit more out of it, i found the snare sounds better with a little more higher bite. And sure, it's all about balances, so i had to readjust kick and guitar and vocal volumes a bit to accomodate for this. But now i'm quite o.k. with the outcome, sounds a bit fresher to my ears. Yeah - it was really fun mixing it, and i have to say, the Mixbus is a very good tool to make things sounding expensive just by running stuff thru it. It has so great EQs and filters and everything at your fingertips, it really is my favourite for this kind of music. Btw, i did not even mix it in the studio with my beloved K&Hs, so this is a sleeping room production totally. Well, my DAW and ears are the same and i guess the mix translates good nevertheless... Best regards, Martin
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2015 7:01:28 GMT -6
WIZ listened to it and what should I say - it deserves to be mixed on the console with the outboard. It makes fun to listen to it, you sing waht you mean WOW- I am blown away.
BTW is there a CD I can buy.... I like your vocal work much....
Is JJ Cale one of your influences???
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 10:10:48 GMT -6
He has his last CD "4th time lucky" for independent sale on ozlandmusic.com Drop him a PM. I asked him about a digital download possibility and it was a breeze. Guess he is asleep right now at the other end of the world... :-)
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Post by watchtower on May 8, 2015 10:45:49 GMT -6
Hey wiz, here's my attempt... dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1579861/Wiz%20-%20Fool%20Me%20Once%20mix1.mp3I'm not positive about an exact RMS match, but it's probably pretty close Like I said, I mix and master metal 95% of the time, so this was a lot of fun to get to work on something totally different for me, and see what happens. The "pseudo-raw"/mix tracks sound fantastic! Great job
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Post by wiz on May 8, 2015 18:34:22 GMT -6
He has his last CD "4th time lucky" for independent sale on ozlandmusic.com Drop him a PM. I asked him about a digital download possibility and it was a breeze. Guess he is asleep right now at the other end of the world... :-) thanks @smallbuttfine 8) I also have a couple of albums out on iTunes... Forty Years Album
Black Snow EP
I haven't put the latest album (4th Time Lucky) up for digital distribution as yet, not sure if I will... I have arranged for a few people on the board to be able to download the actual mastered files so they can burn their own CD and or get a physical product sent to their door. Go to www.ozlandmusic.com and watch the making of the album video I did ... cheers Wiz
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