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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 18, 2015 18:31:14 GMT -6
I was at B&H in Manhattan last week, and I popped into the mic room for a few minutes. It's an amazing thing, 25-30 mics, all set up in an enclosed room, with most of the best preamps available. I listened to the Telefunken AR-51 (VERY impressive), the Mojave 300, the Avantone CV-12, the Neumann 103, and .. the Neumann U87. After running through these mics briefly, when I got to the U87, it was just shockingly present, a huge, magnificent, clear modern sound, truly a benchmark no one's topped yet. It had been a long time since I'd sang through a U87, and it was a great reminder of just how high that bar is set. The AR-51 was a different animal, but just as impressive. I almost wished I'd started with that and modded it, instead of my UM-17, (which is nearly identical to the Telefunken AK-47, only hand made by Oliver Archut). So, if the Warbler I has some of that tremendous gain, with clarity and focus, I'll be thrilled. The Mojave was very good, but somehow, not exciting. And, I guess I really need to explore C12-251 style mics at some point, my ears seem to be leading me that way, especially after hearing some files with the Tim Campbell capsule. Someone please sing something and play something with a Warbler 1... Martin, I hope you get a chance to check out a Bock 251, you won't believe the beauty. I haven't heard anything close to that yet, but then again I haven't heard many very high end mics in that category. I'm still searching for a used 151/251 that I can afford. I have been looking at that AR-51 also, I got a pair of Telefunkens M80/M81 and I can't believe how good they sound for a dynamic. Just had to throw that in there. I have heard that the AR-51 was described as not much bottom and airy. The Bock 251 has awesome bottom and an effortless beautifly smooth crazy airy top! I could get two and be done never looking again for a mic. If the money was there, man $6000 now for that 251. The acoustic just sounded perfect as tracked, not even touching anything after the print. Amazing mics period!
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Post by ragan on Jun 18, 2015 19:47:56 GMT -6
I wish I could get a Demo mic. I could record my wife and I singing, and some Acoustic guitar. I would put them up against my modded Rode NT2's, C414's, AT 4051A, Shure KSM44, Josephsons C42's. Until then I have to wait, I just hope that I will be able to get a couple of these before the prices go up. ...just $270 for the Warbler of your choice...I'd love to hear your sample-files... ...and a fourteen (14) days risk-free return policy for a full-refund (minus shipping of course): www.3uaudio.com/Show.asp?id=636&dh=3...the last guy who put them up against his 414s, ended up selling his 414s and buying a Mini Z guitar rig (on the left) with the cost differential... Actually the Mini Z rig is on the right : ) How'd you get that image to load? I never can on RGO.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 19, 2015 8:34:49 GMT -6
Guitfiddler, look into the upcoming Blackspade 251 based mic if you're looking for the Bock 251. I think it's going to be comparable, expensive, but not as much as the Bock.
Ragan, I loved seeing the shot of the two Dr Z amps. How's the little one sound? I'm thinking I may go for the Bad Cat Cougar 15 at some point. I have a 15 W. Blues Jr. right now, but it's still a little edgy, even with a Celestion in there.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 24, 2015 18:04:50 GMT -6
...angled headbasket mod for Warbler MK I (U87 voicing)...thoughts? Attachments:
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 28, 2015 16:54:54 GMT -6
Guitfiddler, look into the upcoming Blackspade 251 based mic if you're looking for the Bock 251. I think it's going to be comparable, expensive, but not as much as the Bock. Ragan, I loved seeing the shot of the two Dr Z amps. How's the little one sound? I'm thinking I may go for the Bad Cat Cougar 15 at some point. I have a 15 W. Blues Jr. right now, but it's still a little edgy, even with a Celestion in there. MJB, I am looking at all the offerings for the 251 right now, especially the Blackspade. After hearing the Bock mics I can't imagine another mic sounding that good on my voice. Absolute perfection. I couldn't even make it better with EQ, I would tweak and kept going back to the rough track(didn't sound rough at all, lol), but I will have the ability to do this in the near future if the chips fall in my favor. Thanks.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 28, 2015 19:18:20 GMT -6
It's tough when you find a perfect mic, and can't own it. I once did a session with a vintage C12, and I tell you, if I had that particular mic, i wouldn't need to bother with any other vocal mic, ever.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 28, 2015 20:54:42 GMT -6
kidvybes, was that mod intended to be more like the original U87 head basket? Did it change the sound? Did you do it yourself?
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Post by stratboy on Jun 29, 2015 4:53:26 GMT -6
Guitfiddler, look into the upcoming Blackspade 251 based mic if you're looking for the Bock 251. I think it's going to be comparable, expensive, but not as much as the Bock. Ragan, I loved seeing the shot of the two Dr Z amps. How's the little one sound? I'm thinking I may go for the Bad Cat Cougar 15 at some point. I have a 15 W. Blues Jr. right now, but it's still a little edgy, even with a Celestion in there. Martin, to take the edge off your blues jr, try a Warehouse Guitar Speaker Veteran 30. Decent price, made in USA, and has chime and smooth breakup without the ice pick edge if the Celestion. I have both in a 2x 12 and prefer the WGS.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 29, 2015 8:56:34 GMT -6
Thanks Stratboy. The Blues jr. I have is on loan from a friend. He put the Celestial in, but I don't think it helped much with the piercing tone at all. I've listened a few times to a new Blues Jr., the NOS version with the Jensen speaker made in Italy. It sounded much cooler than any Jr. I'd ever heard, but then, I've only heard a few.
My friends Jr. is an original American model, probably needs tubes, ad for some reason, the reverb stopped working the second day I had it. My friend will let me keep it if I want to, but I don't know if it's worth investing in tubes, a speaker, and fixing the reverb, when I can just go out and buy something that's already together. The thing is, I like the Blues Jr., the size, the classic Fender sound, including of course, the Fender reverb. I'm thinking on either a Bad Cat Cougar 15. Also, I happened to be at Sam Ash last week, and heard someone playing a little Peavey amp, a Valve King, through a small Egnater cabinet. The Peavey head can switche from 20, to 5, to 1 watt, and it sounded really good, much like a Marshall, but it also had a good clean channel sound. I'll have to go and sit down and listen closer myself soon. I would never have considered a Peavey amp, bit I'll give it a fair listen.
Still, a Fender is a Fender..
Guitfiddler, I hate to say it, but the Telefunken AR 51 sounded great, right out of the box, and lists for $1899. One of those used might be $1,400-ish, and could be the answer to your 251 jones. I wish I'd started with that, instead of my Blackspade UM17, which began as a TabFunkenwerk version of the Telefunken AK47. Mine sounds just like a Neumann M49 , the AR-51 is 251-ish.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 29, 2015 9:08:39 GMT -6
kidvybes, was that mod intended to be more like the original U87 head basket? Did it change the sound? Did you do it yourself? Yes MJB, I suggested that modification to Guosheng at 3U Audio, for the Warbler I, since it's clearly voiced like an 87...that was the photo he sent me, and I believe he will test the performance to see if it has any noticeable bearing on the sonic character...I'm not sure if he'll be able to make that headbasket available to me for testing yet...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 29, 2015 10:20:46 GMT -6
That's really cool kid, I bet it does make a difference. And of course, sometimes the smallest difference is everything. I asked Mike from Blackspade about the Thiersch capsule placement in my UM-17Blueline, I was worried the capsule wasn't fully exposed, so and he sent me a photo of a clear U47, and pointed out how the capsule is partly covered by the head basket housing, which he said affects the sound, and is important, if you want to get it right. Mike knows what he's talking about. Attachments:
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 29, 2015 17:33:12 GMT -6
...making a case for these mics! Attachments:
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 4, 2015 11:34:30 GMT -6
...yesterday, I attended an all-day "open-house" at a really nice, new local studio run by a very reputable pro-engineer...I asked if I could set up a few of the Warbler-series mics in the vocal booth and possibly get a couple of the artists passing thru to do a little vocal demo on the mics... ...I setup the Warbler I, IV and V...a few of the artists did some free-styling on the mics, so I hope to post some of the vocal clips on both male and female vocals...all-in-all, the singers were very impressed with how they sounded on the mics, particularly when I told them how affordable they were... ...here's the first set of vocal takes for the "Male Soul Vocal Demos"...this was an entirely free-styled session...the engineer pulled up an old-school R&B styled track and the male vocalist just improvised lyrics...all three Warblers were simultaneously tracking the same single vocal take and Focusrite Octopre MK II preamps were employed...these are raw files with no treatment...I uploaded the WAV files so you can import the tracks into your DAW of choice, add any treatment you chose, and judge for yourself which mic you prefer...tempo setting for the original Nuendo session was 112BPM... Male Soul Vocal Demo Folder (Instrumental track is copyright property of Dream Machine Prod. 2015): app.box.com/s/lf7qb44338quiok7bnmt9owyhyo293hzHere's a quick ruffmix of one of the Warbler-Series FET mics for this session: https%3A//soundcloud.com/kidvybes/male-soul-demo-ruff-mix-warbler-series-mics
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 6, 2015 15:01:04 GMT -6
...there is plans now to offer an upgraded Warbler MK I (U87 voicing) with multiple-patterns and the angled wedge-style headbasket...
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Post by jdc on Jul 6, 2015 15:20:20 GMT -6
Nice! Same price as the original?
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 6, 2015 16:29:26 GMT -6
...yesterday, I attended an all-day "open-house" at a really nice, new local studio run by a very reputable pro-engineer...I asked if I could set up a few of the Warbler-series mics in the vocal booth and possibly get a couple of the artists passing thru to do a little vocal demo on the mics... ...I setup the Warbler I, IV and V...a few of the artists did some free-styling on the mics, so I hope to post some of the vocal clips on both male and female vocals...all-in-all, the singers were very impressed with how they sounded on the mics, particularly when I told them how affordable they were... ...here's the first set of vocal takes for the "Male Soul Vocal Demos"...this was an entirely free-styled session...the engineer pulled up an old-school R&B styled track and the male vocalist just improvised lyrics...all three Warblers were simultaneously tracking the same single vocal take and Focusrite Octopre MK II preamps were employed...these are raw files with no treatment...I uploaded the WAV files so you can import the tracks into your DAW of choice, add any treatment you chose, and judge for yourself which mic you prefer...tempo setting for the original Nuendo session was 112BPM... Male Soul Vocal Demo Folder (Instrumental track is copyright property of Dream Machine Prod. 2015): app.box.com/s/lf7qb44338quiok7bnmt9owyhyo293hzHere's a quick ruffmix of one of the Warbler-Series FET mics for this session: https%3A//soundcloud.com/kidvybes/male-soul-demo-ruff-mix-warbler-series-micsThose mics sound very smooth.
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 7, 2015 17:54:08 GMT -6
Nice! Same price as the original? ...I don't believe so...this would be an additional upgraded version with dual-diaphragm K67 capsule and the angled-headbasket...
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 9, 2015 17:35:58 GMT -6
Speaking on the head basket mod, that looks really good, and even cooler if I could get it on a 251 Mk IV.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 10, 2015 7:59:28 GMT -6
Kid, that was a great post, everything this forum is about, thanks.
I listened to the tracks solo, and with the music track. It's funny, solo, the Warbler 1 is clearer, the iV cloudy, the V, similar, but somehow sweeter. With the track, it's a tossup between the I and the V to me.I'd have to listen again more carefully to choose, it's not a obvious decision..
Perhaps that head basket mod and the K69 capsule would tip the scales and put the I out front, or is that mod for all Warblers?
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 10, 2015 19:29:05 GMT -6
Kid, that was a great post, everything this forum is about, thanks. I listened to the tracks solo, and with the music track. It's funny, solo, the Warbler 1 is clearer, the iV cloudy, the V, similar, but somehow sweeter. With the track, it's a tossup between the I and the V to me.I'd have to listen again more carefully to choose, it's not a obvious decision.. Perhaps that head basket mod and the K69 capsule would tip the scales and put the I out front, or is that mod for all Warblers? Thanks bro...that "Ruff Mix" I posted is the Warbler MK V with a touch of EQ and reverb set on the backing track... ...the mod is strictly for the Warbler I (87 voicing)...but I suspect Guosheng will go with what is requested...since these are produced in small quantities in his own facility, the chance for some limited edition runs is very good...I'll keep this thread active with any interesting updates...
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Post by odyssey76 on Jul 24, 2015 7:50:37 GMT -6
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 24, 2015 8:48:40 GMT -6
This is a breakdown of the voicings/build of the 3U Audio mics: Teal CM-1 - edge-terminated capsule (251) - transformer-less FET output Black CM-1 - center-terminated capsule (87) - transformer-less FET output Warbler (I) - center-terminated capsule (87) - FET w/9.5:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK II - center-terminated capsule (47) - FET w/6.5:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK III - edge-terminated capsule (C12) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK IV - edge-terminated capsule (251) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK V - edge-terminated capsule (*dark) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output * the voicing of the MK V is quite unique and while it might border on the dark side of a 251, it has a voicing that responds almost ribbon/dynamic like... ...and then, of course, there are the premium GZ-series FET and tube offerings...the designations (GZ67, GZ251, GZ47) are somewhat self-explanatory...these employ dual-diaphragmed capsules allowing for multiple polar-pattern settings...they also employ American and British made transformer-coupled output... Keep in mind, for the best price (to circumvent eBay fees), reach out directly to Guosheng Zhuang (the designer/manufacturer) via: 3uaudio@gmail.com
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Post by odyssey76 on Jul 24, 2015 9:11:19 GMT -6
This is a breakdown of the voicings/build of the 3U Audio mics: Teal CM-1 - edge-terminated capsule (251) - transformer-less FET output Black CM-1 - center-terminated capsule (87) - transformer-less FET output Warbler (I) - center-terminated capsule (87) - FET w/9.5:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK II - center-terminated capsule (47) - FET w/6.5:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK III - edge-terminated capsule (C12) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK IV - edge-terminated capsule (251) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output Warbler MK V - edge-terminated capsule (*dark) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output * the voicing of the MK V is quite unique and while it might border on the dark side of a 251, it has a voicing that responds almost ribbon/dynamic like... ...and then, of course, there are the premium GZ-series FET and tube offerings...the designations (GZ67, GZ251, GZ47) are somewhat self-explanatory...these employ dual-diaphragmed capsules allowing for multiple polar-pattern settings...they also employ American and British made transformer-coupled output... Keep in mind, for the best price (to circumvent eBay fees), reach out directly to Guosheng Zhuang (the designer/manufacturer) via: 3uaudio@gmail.com Great info kidvybes, thanks a ton! Especially appreciate the head's up for contacting Zhuang to save some cash! I'll contact him today.....
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 30, 2015 9:27:50 GMT -6
...I was curious to find out if Guosheng was going to proceed with the upgraded Warbler I, so I reached out for an update...he informed me that the PCBs for the multi-patterned version have been ordered, and all the metalwork, including a new angled/wedge headbasket is being finalized for production...this multi-patterned variant will maintain the same three switches as on the current Warbler I, but with addition of a 4th polar-pattern switch (omni, cardioid and figure-eight)... ...new headbasket to look similar to pic below...he anticipates it may be available by the end of August... Attachments:
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 30, 2015 10:20:38 GMT -6
Would love to hear the new Warbler 1 with the new head basket. For some reason, the look of the headbasket is important to me. I know it doesn't make sense if something sounds good, but some of those cheaper U87ish mics like Rode's turn me off with their ugly headbaskets.
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