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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 1, 2015 8:02:25 GMT -6
Ta Da!!!!
In a megaphone style voice... And in this corner, the Warbler IV, like a 251, but moody, smooth and experienced, and in this corner, the Warbler I, younger, quick and bright, but strong in the middle.
And my guess, Warbler I takes the match in a TKO. Tapping toes now..
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Post by ragan on Jun 1, 2015 8:19:38 GMT -6
I gather that a 251 is less bright than a C12 but still a pretty airy mic. I love KidVybes clip of the Warbler V. I want to hear something done with a IV, but I'm not sure that will be feasible since so few people have these mics. ...hopefully you won't have to wait long...I should have the MK IV in a few days and will post a similar clip...with three Warbler variants based on the same edge-terminated C12 capsule, one of these is going to nail where you want to be...since the built-in 3-voicing option gives you more attenuated top-end response choices from the same mic, I suspect this Warbler MK IV is going to be the money-shot... Oh you got the IV coming?! Hell yeah. That compared to that smooooooth V is what I wanna hear.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 1, 2015 15:04:45 GMT -6
...OK, gotta give props to China Post and USPS for some very prompt shipping on these last couple of mics...so today I tested the Warbler MK III and Warbler MK IV and compared the three C12-capsule based variants, so you can hear the voicing progression...all were tracked using the Great River ME-1NV on a very clean setting, dry/no treatment.... ...and since these three C12-based variants each offer 3 individual voice options, I decided it would be most beneficial to record all 3 voice options for each of these, so you can hear the range within each individual mic's voicings... ...so first up is all three C12/T14 based Warbler FET mics in order (III, IV and V), all in voice position #1: app.box.com/s/4zdyu26y5mapi0i0fki3de27gh05vwum...then, there's an individual sound-file for each of the three variants, comparing the three voice options for each model... Warbler MK III: app.box.com/s/q5hvx4nclta375yqchiqawci3aczbnl3Warbler MK IV: app.box.com/s/c3mksta8pa2f615ngq86nt6id621mir9Warbler MK V: app.box.com/s/w92s6yfiqhl7wiw7wtz7p7h5fh01eeljAttachments:
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Post by ragan on Jun 1, 2015 15:27:44 GMT -6
...OK, gotta give props to China Post and USPS for some very prompt shipping on these last couple of mics...so today I tested the Warbler MK III and Warbler MK IV and compared the three C12-capsule based variants, so you can hear the voicing progression...all were tracked using the Great River ME-1NV on a very clean setting, dry/no treatment.... ...and since these three C12-based variants each offer 3 individual voice options, I decided it would be most beneficial to record all 3 voice options for each of these, so you can hear the range within each individual mic's voicings... ...so first up is all three C12/T14 based Warbler FET mics in order (III, IV and V), all in voice position #1: app.box.com/s/4zdyu26y5mapi0i0fki3de27gh05vwum...then, there's an individual sound-file for each of the three variants, comparing the three voice options for each model... Warbler MK III: app.box.com/s/q5hvx4nclta375yqchiqawci3aczbnl3Warbler MK IV: app.box.com/s/c3mksta8pa2f615ngq86nt6id621mir9Warbler MK V: app.box.com/s/w92s6yfiqhl7wiw7wtz7p7h5fh01eeljDude you rule! Can't wait to check these out tonight.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 1, 2015 17:44:01 GMT -6
Great posts kidvybes. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, I like Mk IV, position 1.
i'd love to hear some singing in a track with Warbler 1 and Warbler IV in position 1. I like them both a lot, Still leaning toward 1, but IV could take the lead if I could hear more done with it.
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Post by M57 on Jun 1, 2015 17:59:29 GMT -6
Fantastic. Thanks for doing this. So are you keeping them all? Wanna re-sell the IV?
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Post by wiz on Jun 1, 2015 18:04:20 GMT -6
great work, this stuff takes a great deal of time and effort.. its appreciated bud
cheers
Wiz
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Post by miscend on Jun 1, 2015 19:04:53 GMT -6
Kidvybes do you like these mics more than your beloved Stellar CM6 and CM5 with NOS tubes?
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 1, 2015 20:41:51 GMT -6
Kidvybes do you like these mics more than your beloved Stellar CM6 and CM5 with NOS tubes? I would like to know this as well.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 1, 2015 23:11:44 GMT -6
Kidvybes do you like these mics more than your beloved Stellar CM6 and CM5 with NOS tubes? ...it's hard to really equate these FET LDCs with a tube mic like the CM-6, but I would say that these Warbler mics are excellent companion options to those Stellar tube mic offerings...what they share in common, IMHO, is the bang-for-the-buck value they all bring...where the CM-6 comfortably hangs with some pretty pricey tube-mics, I would have no reservations about putting these Warbler FET mics, the MK I (K67 capsule) and the MK IV (C12 capsule) in particular, up against the likes of FET mics costing 2-3 times the price (like the Mikteks, Mojaves, Lewitts and even the Bock 195)... ...when you consider that you could conceivably purchase a Stellar CM-6, and the Warbler MK I and MK IV, altogether for a touch more than $1K, that's the basis of a very capable/versatile LDC mic closet for a relatively small investment, especially when you consider that the Miktek CV-4 (or Mojave MA-300), plus a pair of Miktek/Mojave FET mics would set you back close to 3 times the cost (with no particular sonic advantage, IMHO)... ...so, do I like them more?...not more, but I put them on par as FET companion options...there's little doubt that the quality-to-cost-ratio paradigm continues to shift in our favor where recording hardware is concerned lately...
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Post by miscend on Jun 1, 2015 23:33:42 GMT -6
What C12 capsule is he using. The same ones Advanced Audio and others are using?
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Post by ragan on Jun 1, 2015 23:59:05 GMT -6
Thanks for doing these, Dennis. Really appreciate it. I think I'm going to order a MK V tomorrow. The MK IV may be more versatile, but that MK V just has such a lush, smooth mid/lo mid thing going on and I've always struggled to record my bright/brash voice. I gotta try it. I'll then try it vs the MK I I've already got on drums and elec gtrs and whatnot and decide which I'd rather have a pair of (ordering either a second MK I or a second MK V).
Thanks for the clips, brother.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 2, 2015 7:35:51 GMT -6
Be sure to post when you've got it up and running Ragan.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 2, 2015 7:58:09 GMT -6
What C12 capsule is he using. The same ones Advanced Audio and others are using? ...No, that's the thing about these 3U Audio mics...the capsules and the transformers are proprietary...they are designed in house...the capsules are their own, tuned specifically for their microphones...3U audio is doing exactly what ADK is doing with their Custom-Shop capsules as employed in their Z-Mod series microphones...each capsule is designed and tuned to emulate a specific voicing...I've not seen another C12 capsule coming out of China the looks like the 3U C12, other than the ADK Custom Shop (which BTW is a $300 capsule)...Guosheng is tuning his C12 to three different variants for his Warbler-series mics, and he's using the a more historically-correct screw (flat-top/flathead screw) than any of the other Chinese manufacturers...here are pics of the 5 different C12 style capsules I'm aware of:
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 3, 2015 10:43:45 GMT -6
Fantastic. Thanks for doing this. So are you keeping them all? Wanna re-sell the IV? ...for now I am hoping to do some more testing on both male and female voices, so I have no plan to sell them... ...but I was informed by Guosheng that all 5 Warbler-series variants are now currently available, and the introductory pricing offer ($270 SHIPPED!) still stands, so if any of the particular variants interest you, reach out to him at 3uaudio@gmail.com for the best pricing...keep in mind that since the bulk of the shipping expense is included in the cost of the first mic, you do better when purchasing 2 or 3 mics in the same shipment (brings down the cost per mic)...
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 7, 2015 12:53:25 GMT -6
...I had a request from another forum member to post a soundfile comparison of a couple of the Warbler mics that employ the edge-terminated capsule with the Stellar CM-5 tube-condenser mic which is an affordable C12/251 inspired design (which happens to be essentially the same mic as the Advanced Audio CM12)...the CM-5, much like the Warbler-series MK III, IV and V, also employs a 12:1 T14-type dual-bobbin transformer...things are kinda slow here in my studio, and I'm upgrading my control surface, so why not...here ya go...Stellar CM-5 wedged between the Warbler MK III and Warbler MK IV... (IMHO, the harmonic mojo that comes from the tube/tranny combo in the CM-5 is clearly evident, but the Warbler's have wonderful sonic resolution and clarity...pick your poison!): app.box.com/s/4r9oyku13budzlento2x3ximnlouzmby
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 8, 2015 22:32:25 GMT -6
I would love to hear a vocal and/or an acoustic guitar with the W 1 and W IV.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 9, 2015 8:06:05 GMT -6
I would love to hear a vocal and/or an acoustic guitar with the W 1 and W IV. ...me too!...there is another musician/engineer from the Miami area who is planning to pass thru my home studio to demo the Warblers for his own purposes...maybe we can get a few files recorded like that when he tests the mics...I'm hoping he brings his acoustic guitar with him... ...so, speaking of sound-files...I plan on posting some comparisons of the Warbler-series FET mics with some of my costlier tube microphones, not so much to highlight similarities, but more to get a reference for the resolution, or quality of the sonic character of these 3U Audio mics when compared to some respected mid-to-higher priced options... ...so this time I'm comparing the Advanced Audio CM67se ($965), a tube-condenser microphone with a K67-style center-terminated capsule, a CCDA (constant current draw amplifier) circuit employing a 6072A tube with transformer-coupled output...these mics have a 2-stage circuit (with secondary cathode-follower circuit) so they actually employ both triodes of the 6072 tube...it will be paired up to the Warbler I, which also employs a K67-style capsule and transformer-coupled output, but with a FET based circuit rather than a vacuum tube... ...now, again, this is not so much to emphasize the similarities, but rather to compare the overall character, and smoothness/resolution of the sonic image...volume matching may not be ideal, so if you'd like, feel free to download the WAV file and volume match accordingly in your DAW...Tube vs FET: app.box.com/s/yetjtteo29ojxi0mjr08kksjl476q2do
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 9, 2015 19:57:49 GMT -6
I wish I could get a Demo mic. I could record my wife and I singing, and some Acoustic guitar. I would put them up against my modded Rode NT2's, C414's, AT 4051A, Shure KSM44, Josephsons C42's. Until then I have to wait, I just hope that I will be able to get a couple of these before the prices go up.
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 11, 2015 15:15:33 GMT -6
I wish I could get a Demo mic. I could record my wife and I singing, and some Acoustic guitar. I would put them up against my modded Rode NT2's, C414's, AT 4051A, Shure KSM44, Josephsons C42's. Until then I have to wait, I just hope that I will be able to get a couple of these before the prices go up. ...just $270 for the Warbler of your choice...I'd love to hear your sample-files... ...and a fourteen (14) days risk-free return policy for a full-refund (minus shipping of course): www.3uaudio.com/Show.asp?id=636&dh=3...the last guy who put them up against his 414s, ended up selling his 414s and buying a Mini Z guitar rig (on the left) with the cost differential... Attachments:
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 17, 2015 13:27:56 GMT -6
...I've been so impressed with the sound of the 3 Warbler-series mics that employ the 3U edge-terminated capsules that I pulled the trigger on one of his premium series FET mics, the GZ251 with AMI tranny...will post my thoughts and comparison files with the Warbler MK IV which should have a similar sonic voicing...
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 18, 2015 17:57:31 GMT -6
I'm all ears waiting for you to post what you think.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 18, 2015 18:09:55 GMT -6
I was at B&H in Manhattan last week, and I popped into the mic room for a few minutes. It's an amazing thing, 25-30 mics, all set up in an enclosed room, with most of the best preamps available. I listened to the Telefunken AR-51 (VERY impressive), the Mojave 300, the Avantone CV-12, the Neumann 103, and .. the Neumann U87. After running through these mics briefly, when I got to the U87, it was just shockingly present, a huge, magnificent, clear modern sound, truly a benchmark no one's topped yet.
It had been a long time since I'd sang through a U87, and it was a great reminder of just how high that bar is set. The AR-51 was a different animal, but just as impressive. I almost wished I'd started with that and modded it, instead of my UM-17, (which is nearly identical to the Telefunken AK-47, only hand made by Oliver Archut).
So, if the Warbler I has some of that tremendous gain, with clarity and focus, I'll be thrilled. The Mojave was very good, but somehow, not exciting. And, I guess I really need to explore C12-251 style mics at some point, my ears seem to be leading me that way, especially after hearing some files with the Tim Campbell capsule.
Someone please sing something and play something with a Warbler 1...
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 18, 2015 18:20:53 GMT -6
I'm all ears waiting for you to post what you think. ...my approach when deciding to step up was based on the positive reviews I've been reading about the ADK T-FET series mics...they have been garnering very high praise from some very reputable AEs...the ADK T-FET Cremona is their 251-inspired offering...it streets for $1500...that's about twice what the 3U GZ251 streets for...I've seen the insides of the ADK T-FET mics, and they use the Oxford (British) transformer (which I believe Guosheng uses in his GZ67 FET)...his GZ251 employs an AMI (US) transformer that is actually a hybrid-design combining a BV.08-style transformer, but scaled in size like a T14...like I've said, I've seen the circuit in the T-FET mic,. and other than some $6 resistor they brag about, there's nothing in there I can see that is higher-quality than the WIMAs, Dales and Fairchild components Guosheng employs... ...and, the ADK T-FET series all share the identical circuit...the voicings are determined by the capsule of choice, with the option to also swap out the tranny...Guosheng's premium FET mics have different circuits, clearly designed to compliment his custom-voiced capsules...so, if I can get a FET mic that competes with ADK's T-FET Cremona for about half the price, I'm in...ultimately, I'd love to shoot them out together... ...I should add that I already have 2 custom-built tube-mic clones that employ the same ADK Custom-Shop Capsules (an edge-terminated GK12d and a center-terminated GK67d) as employed in their T-FET mics, so I'm familiar with the sound of those capsules (excellent!)...based on the performance of the Warbler-series FET offerings, I'm optimistic that the 3U premium builds will deliver that extra refinement that will compare nicely to the ADK offerings...and if they do, then there may be 2 levels of "best-bang-for-the-buck" going on here...
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 18, 2015 18:27:08 GMT -6
I was at B&H in Manhattan last week, and I popped into the mic room for a few minutes. It's an amazing thing, 25-30 mics, all set up in an enclosed room, with most of the best preamps available. I listened to the Telefunken AR-51 (VERY impressive), the Mojave 300, the Avantone CV-12, the Neumann 103, and .. the Neumann U87. After running through these mics briefly, when I got to the U87, it was just shockingly present, a huge, magnificent, clear modern sound, truly a benchmark no one's topped yet. It had been a long time since I'd sang through a U87, and it was a great reminder of just how high that bar is set. The AR-51 was a different animal, but just as impressive. I almost wished I'd started with that and modded it, instead of my UM-17, (which is nearly identical to the Telefunken AK-47, only hand made by Oliver Archut). So, if the Warbler I has some of that tremendous gain, with clarity and focus, I'll be thrilled. The Mojave was very good, but somehow, not exciting. And, I guess I really need to explore C12-251 style mics at some point, my ears seem to be leading me that way, especially after hearing some files with the Tim Campbell capsule. Someone please sing something and play something with a Warbler 1... ...while the Warbler I definitely has that 87 vibe going on, I suspect that Guosheng's GZ67 FET may be the mic that really captures the vintage 87 sound...but I think I will have a better gauge once I compare the GZ251 to the Warbler IV...if the difference is really audible, then I would imagine the GZ67 FET will be a similar step up from the Warbler I...but, considering the law of diminishing return, maybe not... ...the 2 ADK T-FET mics that garner the most praise are the Cremona (251) and Berlin (67)...of course they are $1500 each...the 3U Audio GZ FETs are half that price...
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