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Post by swurveman on Mar 25, 2015 14:41:59 GMT -6
If you don't mind, take my poll. If you want to add what you use, by all means please do!
Thanks,
Frank
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 25, 2015 14:44:24 GMT -6
Midas VeniceF-32.
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Post by svart on Mar 25, 2015 14:51:37 GMT -6
Alesis X2
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Post by zaiata on Mar 25, 2015 14:54:24 GMT -6
Neve 8816 Summing Mixer + Outboard
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 25, 2015 15:19:33 GMT -6
still working on a 38x8x2 console with 5-8 channel balanced passive summers via dsub25's, the idea is i can go direct out of my channel strips into banks of 8(maintains great s/n headroom), make up with my vp28's or ?, then return on a pair of channel strips to the right of my console master/subs, gives me the option to sum all my outboard auxes as well(essentially giving me 9 stereo subs, i LOVE me subs). The passive summers are really hi end, and cheap to make, let me know if anyone wants the details.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 25, 2015 15:44:03 GMT -6
Allen and Heath ZED 420 + Outboard FXs
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Post by winetree on Mar 25, 2015 17:30:01 GMT -6
Analog room: 64 input Harrison Console (that's fully rebuild per Jim William's mods) and a large collection of outboard effects.
Computer room: I.T.B. with onboard plug-ins and an analog mix down chain.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 25, 2015 17:36:43 GMT -6
ProTools/Cubase/Logic...I sum like a pro  |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 25, 2015 17:51:15 GMT -6
Otari Status 18r 28 mono plus 4 stereo channe inline with onboard Dynamics Total recall VCA automation.
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Post by keymod on Mar 25, 2015 18:50:39 GMT -6
APB DYNASONICS Pro Desk 8 32x8x2.
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Post by swurveman on Mar 25, 2015 20:01:41 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Keep em coming. Jealous of you guys with consoles.
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Post by henge on Mar 25, 2015 22:18:48 GMT -6
All itb but with an eq2nv on the 2 buss. Reaper...
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Post by drbill on Mar 25, 2015 23:57:27 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Keep em coming. Jealous of you guys with consoles. Don't be. I've got a D&R OrionX 120 input automated console. I sum ITB. With a Hybrid hardware 2 buss and Hybrid Analog on inserts. Unless you're summing with well designed class A electronics (or tubes) and transformers, my experience is there is not much sonic difference between summing OTB and ITB. i.e.: a Folcrom is not going to give you any mojo. It's what's FOLLOWING the Folcrom that's giving you the juice. Now...... If you want to talk ergonomics, that's a completely different ball game. A console is a beautiful love thing.... |
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Post by fishnmusician on Mar 26, 2015 0:14:44 GMT -6
Rolls Folcrom with CAPI VP312's and GAR2520's. All built with carbon comp resistors and attenuator bypassed.
I'm building a 24 channel summer with carbon comp's to replace the Folcrom and getting my whole signal chain to that carbon comp sound.
After trying a bunch of pre's with with the Folcrom, what drbill says makes total sense.
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Post by gouge on Mar 26, 2015 1:42:36 GMT -6
cal modified ghost with outboard on busses.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 26, 2015 7:16:23 GMT -6
Just a side note.
I do find the hybrid approach very fascinating.
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Post by henge on Mar 26, 2015 7:29:50 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Keep em coming. Jealous of you guys with consoles. Don't be. I've got a D&R OrionX 120 input automated console. I sum ITB. With a Hybrid hardware 2 buss and Hybrid Analog on inserts. Unless you're summing with well designed class A electronics (or tubes) and transformers, my experience is there is not much sonic difference between summing OTB and ITB. i.e.: a Folcrom is not going to give you any mojo. It's what's FOLLOWING the Folcrom that's giving you the juice. Now...... If you want to talk ergonomics, that's a completely different ball game. A console is a beautiful love thing.... I once tried summing with a Mackie Onyx and itb BLEW it away!!lol So it seems, as drbill says, your summing rig has to be top notch for improvement. |
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Post by swurveman on Mar 26, 2015 7:47:55 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Keep em coming. Jealous of you guys with consoles. Don't be. I've got a D&R OrionX 120 input automated console. I sum ITB. With a Hybrid hardware 2 buss and Hybrid Analog on inserts. Unless you're summing with well designed class A electronics (or tubes) and transformers, my experience is there is not much sonic difference between summing OTB and ITB. i.e.: a Folcrom is not going to give you any mojo. It's what's FOLLOWING the Folcrom that's giving you the juice. Now...... If you want to talk ergonomics, that's a completely different ball game. A console is a beautiful love thing.... Thanks for your response drbill. Yeah, I was mostly thinking of the idea of getting away from a mouse, but I wouldn't take the leap to a console unless I was in the API 1608 with automation type territory. I do have an API 2500 and a Smart C2 for 2-bus itb processing and am looking at all the usual suspects for 2-bus EQ's. That being said would you mind elaborating on your "what's following the Folcrum that's giving you the juice"? My understanding is that Chris Muth of Dangerous Music started this, as he found that engineers running digital mix stems out to a Neve Console sounded better than an itb mix. So, on advise from an engineer he built the 2-Bus. Apparently, in his words the summing box knocked off some gain on its input channels, and it knocked off more gain on a level control at the output section. In other words, specific areas of gain loss in analog were better than the loss necessary for a bunch of channels to go down to two in digital. However, in today's 32-bit processing world where there is no gain loss necessary at the channel level in a DAW, has that changed the game? Also, is there something else than DAW gain structure that I should be considering? Muth's view is that summing should be transparent. So, there's a lot of talk about transformers, but when mixing all kinds of music I don't see how transformer based color is a good thing. Anyway, I am a novice on electronics. So, I am still a bit confused and hoping to understand it better. Thanks in advance if you choose to respond and help me understand this better. After all, you are the dr. :-) Frank |
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Post by allbuttonmode on Mar 26, 2015 8:15:00 GMT -6
I used to use a Neve 8816, but got a Tore Seem Seesam II 24 channel mixer last year. The setup is as follows: Cubase 8 Pro -> Lynx Aurora 16 (x3) -> Seesam II -> API 2500 -> Dramastic Audio Obsidian -> recording back into Lynx.
Since I got a good deal on a 3rd. Aurora, I've been able to have all my outboard gear connected to it and can run them all as plugins in Cubase.
(Tore Seem Audio made mixers and other pieces audio gear for the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish Broadcast Companies. All top notch parts, which means you get extremely well made and great sounding gear for silly, silly money.)
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Post by swurveman on Mar 26, 2015 8:50:37 GMT -6
I used to use a Neve 8816, but got a Tore Seem Seesam II 24 channel mixer last year. The setup is as follows: Cubase 8 Pro -> Lynx Aurora 16 (x3) -> Seesam II -> API 2500 -> Dramastic Audio Obsidian -> recording back into Lynx. Since I got a good deal on a 3rd. Aurora, I've been able to have all my outboard gear connected to it and can run them all as plugins in Cubase. (Tore Seem Audio made mixers and other pieces audio gear for the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish Broadcast Companies. All top notch parts, which means you get extremely well made and great sounding gear for silly, silly money.) Thanks allbuttonmod. To clarify, you're using your hardware inserts in Cubase and then sending stems to the Tore for the channel tranformers etc and summing. I presume you're not uing the mixer EQ. If I may ask: I am familiar with the API 2500 which to me is a punchy and midrangy sounding compressor. Why do you add the Obsidion? What does it do to compliment the 2500? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 10:04:58 GMT -6
I once had 2 Tore Seem channelstrips, that had exceptionally good components and build quality, mic and line input and output transformers, all Lundahl. Very high-classy.
I have no problems summing ITB, with todays possibilities for saturation thru plugins.
I will go OTB/hybrid again mainly for the workflow, ergonomics, as drBill said, and the unrivaled hands-on feel. Nostalgic, maybe.
For the summing *alone*, i would not go OTB anymore. Since i tried Mixbus, i am sure it could be done ITB just as good if not better, because you don't have to deal with the analog problems. Beeing as good in analog world is costly.
Most probably i will go hybrid somehow, this i think is the great thing nowadays, you can mix analogue with digital as to your liking, and both technologies have their strengths and weak points...
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Post by drbill on Mar 26, 2015 10:39:00 GMT -6
Don't be. I've got a D&R OrionX 120 input automated console. I sum ITB. With a Hybrid hardware 2 buss and Hybrid Analog on inserts. Unless you're summing with well designed class A electronics (or tubes) and transformers, my experience is there is not much sonic difference between summing OTB and ITB. i.e.: a Folcrom is not going to give you any mojo. It's what's FOLLOWING the Folcrom that's giving you the juice. Now...... If you want to talk ergonomics, that's a completely different ball game. A console is a beautiful love thing.... Thanks for your response drbill. Yeah, I was mostly thinking of the idea of getting away from a mouse, but I wouldn't take the leap to a console unless I was in the API 1608 with automation type territory. I do have an API 2500 and a Smart C2 for 2-bus itb processing and am looking at all the usual suspects for 2-bus EQ's. That being said would you mind elaborating on your "what's following the Folcrum that's giving you the juice"? Frank Frank - I'm in a session now, but quickly - the fulcrum is followed by some sort of "gain makeup" i.e.: Silver Bullet (which has a fulcrum mode) or a mic pre or  Something. You need makeup gain. You can put the gain after a passive summer - like a fulcrum - OR you can put it on your two bus. By putting it on the two buss you use less wire, less D/A requirements, less everything - BUT - you get all the benefits. (Sound / Mojo / Etc.) And THAT is my preference. All the goodness, less hassle. Gotta go. If you've got any more q's ask and I'll take a break in a few hours... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 26, 2015 10:47:46 GMT -6
I'm trying to calculate resistor values for my 5 passive summing banks, i'm also researching what type of resistors i should use for these banks, i may need to slug them for optimum ohm value, as well as put mono switches for 2 channels per, i've come to believe that passive summing in small banks of 8 will maximize my S/N, and headroom(ala focusrite console), and allow me to use all my kickbutt pre amps to add the color(or not) that i want with makeup gain. any thoughts or experience on this i'd love to hear! (maybe i should start another thread if you mind the slight sidetrack swurveman ?) |
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 26, 2015 11:05:29 GMT -6
All I can say trust you instinct!
I am one of those people who need to touch a real fader, a real EQ a real compressor.
I tried mixing ITB over and over again, and I know people can make it sound good.
Not me every time I go back to hybrid its pure bliss to me.
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Post by thesoundmotel on Mar 27, 2015 0:35:25 GMT -6
SPL Mixdream Xp
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Something. You need makeup gain. You can put the gain after a passive summer - like a fulcrum - OR you can put it on your two bus. By putting it on the two buss you use less wire, less D/A requirements, less everything - BUT - you get all the benefits. (Sound / Mojo / Etc.) And THAT is my preference. All the goodness, less hassle. Gotta go. If you've got any more q's ask and I'll take a break in a few hours...
