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Post by deehope on Mar 21, 2015 12:43:59 GMT -6
If they're even in the same ballpark that's insane, when you take into account the price. I modded mine already so they are not stock. They do sound a good bit different then the RMA AD and DA. I need to take time and do some listening between them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 18:57:24 GMT -6
Well, they are. Heard the 24Ao DA converters in direct comparison with the Superbeast DAC, the Superbeast running from Bank A SPDIF from the 24Ao. This means both running from the same clock, same computer interface, thru the same monitor controller (McOne) into Klein+Hummel O98 (3-way nearfielder). The difference may be a tiny bit more than a standard Ross Martin 1794 to the Superbeast. Definitely in the same ballpark of the RM 1794A standard. This is not surprising, this is mostly the difference of the output opamps, that are the same in the Standard RM and the Motu 24Ao. The Sabre DAC in the MOTU is strikingly good for a multichannel DAC chip. It has a bit less precise stereofield and another spectral balancing, just like i already described the difference between the standard RM and the Superbeast. The MOTU is simply astonishingly good sounding. Not only for the money. I mean 24 channels of very good conversion in one rack unit with full multi-computer-interface and DSP functionality for 40 bucks per channel - man, it sounded alot better than i expected. It was the best i could imagine such a machine could be. Soundwise, i have absolutely no complaints. I would not bother thinking of modding it, it sounds very good. As long as it has warranty i don't spend a single thought about this. It is mighty fine stock. The webinterface is great. Once you have done a step into it it's really well thought and intuitive to use, at least the setup and routing. Which is marvellous and simple yet powerful. That said, i found a slight obstacle in the latest firmware webui routing matrix. It does not reflect the new multi-channel capabilities, the routing matrix still allows routing only for 24 channels with the USB interface. The channels ARE available in the USB driver under Windows, but not in the WebUI routing matrix. ( mrmiller , please take note, this may be easy to fix and might just have been forgotten in the 17-03-2015 update.) We did not have too much time to experiment today, so this short review is a bit unfinished. But i will come back to this after more use. Right now i am very, very impressed. The SPDIF functionality was very easy to setup and the RM worked with the setup instantly. We will check adding some existing ADAT interfaces at a later point. Integration so far is marvellous. Seems extremely flexible, easy to dive in, the mixer we did not even test, because we had different priorities today, but it looks very powerful, too, and we can't await checking out the DSP capabilities. The MOTU is pretty worth every single penny even without this functionality. No brainer, very, very good price/performance ratio. Powerful concept, great conversion, great feature set. And stable! As of latencies, we have to test around with it more. For our setup, latency doesn't matter, so we chose the safest setup with the 32x32 @96khz USB interface, which is very high latency. Worked pretty good and stable for today. Best regards, Martin
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 21, 2015 19:16:39 GMT -6
Congrats small!! have you loaded it up with as session through your console? i'm curious to see how the headroom stacks up with a full session going?
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Post by dandeurloo on Mar 21, 2015 19:23:51 GMT -6
In the little bit of listening that I have done I think the DA sounds a little better comparatively then the AD on the 16a. The RMA AD seems to sound clearer. The MOTU seems to have more color/warmth. During my sessions I was using the MOTU for a few scratch tracks and the RMA for the tracks I was focusing on. So, again my listening hasn't been very focused. Mostly just things I noticed in passing while working.
Yes, the Motu is really easy to use. So far I am impressed.
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 21, 2015 19:31:31 GMT -6
That said, i found a slight obstacle in the latest firmware webui routing matrix. It does not reflect the new multi-channel capabilities, the routing matrix still allows routing only for 24 channels with the USB interface. The channels ARE available in the USB driver under Windows, but not in the WebUI routing matrix. ( mrmiller , please take note, this may be easy to fix and might just have been forgotten in the 17-03-2015 update.) Have you changed the USB Streaming Mode at the top of the Device tab? By default, it will still be in 24x24 mode. You can also select 32x32 which limits you to 1x or 2x sample rates and 64x64 which limits you to 1x rates. (We had to do it this way because USB audio class compliant drivers don't like it when you change your bandwidth reservation on the fly. As a result, changing the mode requires taking the device offline temporarily. That process wreaks havoc on audio software, so we decided to make it a separate option rather than try to change it behind the scenes when you change sample rate.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 19:43:23 GMT -6
tonycamphdNo, not yet. Next week we will connect everything for a console setup, today we made extensive computer configs (f*ck you micros*ft ... your USB hotplugging sucks when connecting and disconnecting several devices too fast...) Costed too much time. Had nothing to do with the MOTU... The unit itself worked as described. We then made extensive listening session and took our time to check out how the routing works and we even have a configuration where we can use the RM thru the USB interface, the external Firewire Lightbridge OR the Motu without disconnecting, by a simple switch on the RM. Comes handy because we have Multi-OS machine (Linux/Windows). Console day is next saturday most probably. Planned everything, space, cables etc. but needed relax time in the evening and delayed the rest to next weekend. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 20:04:11 GMT -6
That said, i found a slight obstacle in the latest firmware webui routing matrix. It does not reflect the new multi-channel capabilities, the routing matrix still allows routing only for 24 channels with the USB interface. The channels ARE available in the USB driver under Windows, but not in the WebUI routing matrix. ( mrmiller , please take note, this may be easy to fix and might just have been forgotten in the 17-03-2015 update.) Have you changed the USB Streaming Mode at the top of the Device tab? By default, it will still be in 24x24 mode. You can also select 32x32 which limits you to 1x or 2x sample rates and 64x64 which limits you to 1x rates. (We had to do it this way because USB audio class compliant drivers don't like it when you change your bandwidth reservation on the fly. As a result, changing the mode requires taking the device offline temporarily. That process wreaks havoc on audio software, so we decided to make it a separate option rather than try to change it behind the scenes when you change sample rate.) Yes, mrmiller, i did use the 32*32 streaming mode set up. Then i went into the routing tab and it only reflected 24 channels From and To Computer, last 8 channels "From Computer" were missing. Background: I wanted to experiment with routing all 24 analogue DAs PLUS SPDIF Toslink from a Multitrack session. The ASIO driver reflected all 32 ports in the DAW (Sonar). The Routing Tab only 24(*24).
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 21, 2015 20:17:43 GMT -6
Yes, mrmiller, i did use the 32*32 streaming mode set up. Then i went into the routing tab and it only reflected 24 channels From and To Computer, last 8 channels "From Computer" were missing. Background: I wanted to experiment with routing all 24 analogue DAs PLUS SPDIF Toslink from a Multitrack session. The ASIO driver reflected all 32 ports in the DAW (Sonar). The Routing Tab only 24(*24). The other thing to check would be the Computer Setup section in the Device tab near the bottom. If those are both set to 32, I've heard a couple reports of routing oddities after this firmware update. Doing a factory reset resolved the issues in both cases (though you might want to save and download your presets first so it's easy to restore afterwards).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 20:36:15 GMT -6
OK, i will try to check this out next weekend, when i am in the studio again. Maybe another Win or Mac USB interface user of the MOTUs can check this out before me... (If someone of you guys around here is able to verify the behaviour earlier, please report back...) I also did factory resets a few times, as i tested quite a bit with the routing and wanted to understand the issue, then set the USB streaming mode to 32x32 setting. The first thing i did when we installed the MOTU after unboxing was newest driver install and the firmware update to the 17th march version before doing any configs/presets, so i started straight from scratch with no personal presets yet...
Firmware update is a breeze btw.. After a few minutes quick start reading and just watching vids on your webpage the machine was ready to go and the principles of operation understood. That was a good customer experience...
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Post by KJ on Mar 21, 2015 21:01:23 GMT -6
Well, they are. Heard the 24Ao DA converters in direct comparison with the Superbeast DAC, the Superbeast running from Bank A SPDIF from the 24Ao. This means both running from the same clock, same computer interface, thru the same monitor controller (McOne) into Klein+Hummel O98 (3-way nearfielder). The difference may be a tiny bit more than a standard Ross Martin 1794 to the Superbeast. Definitely in the same ballpark of the RM 1794A standard. This is not surprising, this is mostly the difference of the output opamps, that are the same in the Standard RM and the Motu 24Ao. The Sabre DAC in the MOTU is strikingly good for a multichannel DAC chip. It has a bit less precise stereofield and another spectral balancing, just like i already described the difference between the standard RM and the Superbeast. The MOTU is simply astonishingly good sounding. Not only for the money. I mean 24 channels of very good conversion in one rack unit with full multi-computer-interface and DSP functionality for 40 bucks per channel - man, it sounded alot better than i expected. It was the best i could imagine such a machine could be. Soundwise, i have absolutely no complains. I would not bother thinking of modding it, it sounds very good. As long as it has warranty i don't spend a single thought about this. It is mighty fine stock. The webinterface is great. Once you have done a step into it it's really well thought and intuitive to use, at least the setup and routing. Which is marvellous and simple yet powerful. That said, i found a slight obstacle in the latest firmware webui routing matrix. It does not reflect the new multi-channel capabilities, the routing matrix still allows routing only for 24 channels with the USB interface. The channels ARE available in the USB driver under Windows, but not in the WebUI routing matrix. ( mrmiller , please take note, this may be easy to fix and might just have been forgotten in the 17-03-2015 update.) We did not have too much time to experiment today, so this short review is a bit unfinished. But i will come back to this after more use. Right now i am very, very impressed. The SPDIF functionality was very easy to setup and the RM worked with the setup instantly. We will check adding some existing ADAT interfaces at a later point. Integration so far is marvellous. Seems extremely flexible, easy to dive in, the mixer we did not even test, because we had different priorities today, but it looks very powerful, too, and we can't await checking out the DSP capabilities. The MOTU is pretty worth every single penny even without this functionality. No brainer, very, very good price/performance ratio. Powerful concept, great conversion, great feature set. And stable! As of latencies, we have to test around with it more. For our setup, latency doesn't matter, so we chose the safest setup with the 32x32 @96khz USB interface, which is very high latency. Worked pretty good and stable for today. Best regards, Martin Great!! I can't wait for mine to arrive!!
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Post by dandeurloo on Mar 21, 2015 21:24:40 GMT -6
Why can it not do firmware update via thunderbolt?
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Post by wiz on Mar 21, 2015 22:25:36 GMT -6
Why can it not do firmware update via thunderbolt? Would be handy
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 23, 2015 11:24:09 GMT -6
Why can it not do firmware update via thunderbolt? It's due to a combination of engineering reasons. We wanted to make updating as streamlined as possible but also bulletproof. Ethernet was an obvious choice because it meant you could update an entire network of boxes quickly and remotely. Thunderbolt and USB, however, were ruled out for technical reasons. The firmware updater is actually a separate, read-only OS that we boot into. It never gets updated or else a failed update could brick the box. Similarly, updates can reconfigure the Thunderbolt and USB software and circuitry. If we relied on them in the firmware updater, a failed update could equally brick your box. As it stands, despite the warning about turning off power, you could cut power to the interface at any instant while updating. Your interface will always be able to recover by completing the firmware update.
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Post by jdc on Mar 23, 2015 12:06:36 GMT -6
thank you for the clarification!
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Post by dandeurloo on Mar 23, 2015 15:24:48 GMT -6
Why can it not do firmware update via thunderbolt? It's due to a combination of engineering reasons. We wanted to make updating as streamlined as possible but also bulletproof. Ethernet was an obvious choice because it meant you could update an entire network of boxes quickly and remotely. Thunderbolt and USB, however, were ruled out for technical reasons. The firmware updater is actually a separate, read-only OS that we boot into. It never gets updated or else a failed update could brick the box. Similarly, updates can reconfigure the Thunderbolt and USB software and circuitry. If we relied on them in the firmware updater, a failed update could equally brick your box. As it stands, despite the warning about turning off power, you could cut power to the interface at any instant while updating. Your interface will always be able to recover by completing the firmware update. Sounds good to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:48:13 GMT -6
There is nothing that bothers more than a bricked firmware chip that has to be replaced in service because of a power fail, connection problem or similar. It is simply odd and happens more often, than most people think. Nice to know the concept is taking care of all possible problems mentioned.
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Post by wiz on Mar 23, 2015 16:05:37 GMT -6
Why can it not do firmware update via thunderbolt? It's due to a combination of engineering reasons. We wanted to make updating as streamlined as possible but also bulletproof. Ethernet was an obvious choice because it meant you could update an entire network of boxes quickly and remotely. Thunderbolt and USB, however, were ruled out for technical reasons. The firmware updater is actually a separate, read-only OS that we boot into. It never gets updated or else a failed update could brick the box. Similarly, updates can reconfigure the Thunderbolt and USB software and circuitry. If we relied on them in the firmware updater, a failed update could equally brick your box. As it stands, despite the warning about turning off power, you could cut power to the interface at any instant while updating. Your interface will always be able to recover by completing the firmware update. I gotta say.... even if my box sounded like a Yamaha YZ80E at full tilt in a metal garage..... (guess who had bikes when he was a teenager.. .LOL... ) I would still be impressed by MOTU's open and frank answers to questions.... very cool cheers Wiz
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 23, 2015 16:29:02 GMT -6
It's due to a combination of engineering reasons. We wanted to make updating as streamlined as possible but also bulletproof. Ethernet was an obvious choice because it meant you could update an entire network of boxes quickly and remotely. Thunderbolt and USB, however, were ruled out for technical reasons. The firmware updater is actually a separate, read-only OS that we boot into. It never gets updated or else a failed update could brick the box. Similarly, updates can reconfigure the Thunderbolt and USB software and circuitry. If we relied on them in the firmware updater, a failed update could equally brick your box. As it stands, despite the warning about turning off power, you could cut power to the interface at any instant while updating. Your interface will always be able to recover by completing the firmware update. I gotta say.... even if my box sounded like a Yamaha YZ80E at full tilt in a metal garage..... (guess who had bikes when he was a teenager.. .LOL... ) I would still be impressed by MOTU's open and frank answers to questions.... very cool cheers Wiz started on a YZ60, ended on a YZ400 8) Yes, mrmillers presence, and his answering of all questions is awesome, i wouldn't hesitate to buy this stuff if i hadn't already pulled the trigger elsewhere, i will certainly recommend motu as a great option to anyone who'd ask.
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dfh
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Post by dfh on Mar 23, 2015 16:52:16 GMT -6
Hello, I've been using the 16a for about a week and am impressed with the features and the great sound quality. I am however having problems with the mixer presets, I can't load or export presets other than the Zero out preset. I get a message saying "Cannot read property 'scope' of null" Is anyone else experiencing this?
Thanks
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Post by wiz on Mar 23, 2015 18:27:20 GMT -6
Hello, I've been using the 16a for about a week and am impressed with the features and the great sound quality. I am however having problems with the mixer presets, I can't load or export presets other than the Zero out preset. I get a message saying "Cannot read property 'scope' of null" Is anyone else experiencing this? Thanks I just took the current state of my MOTU 16A and saved and renamed the preset and then exported it to my desktop. I am up to date with drivers etc cheers Wiz
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 2:32:00 GMT -6
dfh: Seems to be a javascript error, somehow browser related. Which OS and browser do you use, version etc.?
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dfh
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Post by dfh on Mar 24, 2015 9:39:41 GMT -6
Hi and thanks for the replies. I'm running Windows 7 with Google Chrome 32 bit as a browser on my main machine. I get the same results on my other networked devices, Windows laptop and tablet and phone (Android). I just installed the latest versions of java and it seems to be working correctly now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 9:46:45 GMT -6
Ah, ok, i see. Then, i guess you already updated to latest firmware, right? Something i would try first, before contacting MOTU. BTW, javascript is different from Sun Java, different things (with same origin long ago...). Should work without Sun Java even installed. Hope you can work it out. MOTU has been very responsive here on the board. Board member mrmiller is one of the developers of the AVB product line. It would be nice if you could report back how things got resolved afterwards, for reference. Best regards, Martin
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dfh
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Post by dfh on Mar 24, 2015 9:50:12 GMT -6
Thanks Small, I edited the post above.... Now I'm feeling the 16a love
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 13:38:33 GMT -6
Ah, great!
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