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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 19:02:50 GMT -6
Double check your satellite has the correct sample rate. My Apollo twin will typically not automatically sync sample rates and causes crackling until I manually adjust. I had no idea I have to change sample rates on a satellite. Kudos to you if that pans out!
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 19:04:10 GMT -6
Try changing the order? Put the 16a closest to the mini and the monitor last. Check sample rate idea is a good one, too. 16a has only 1 thunderbolt port, so it has to be last in the chain. It really shouldn't matter, though. Right?
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 19:05:09 GMT -6
I've noticed some crackling also but I don't have any uad but I have a Rosetta 200 word clocked to the Motu also the cracklings doesn't seem to be in the recording just in monitoring But annoying as hell Dude, that's unacceptable. Sounds like you have a clocking issue.
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Post by popmann on Dec 28, 2015 19:13:22 GMT -6
If it's just in monitoring, bump the buffer up and see if it goes away.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 19:38:23 GMT -6
If it's just in monitoring, bump the buffer up and see if it goes away. Buffer is already maxed.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 19:39:09 GMT -6
Double check your satellite has the correct sample rate. My Apollo twin will typically not automatically sync sample rates and causes crackling until I manually adjust. I had no idea I have to change sample rates on a satellite. Kudos to you if that pans out! Yeah, I don't think changing the sample rate of a UAD Satellite is possible.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2015 19:44:57 GMT -6
I wonder if there is only one port on the MOTU because it needs all the available bandwidth from the port. Just thinking out loud.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 19:51:31 GMT -6
I wonder if there is only one port on the MOTU because it needs all the available bandwidth from the port. Just thinking out loud. Hmmm...not sure, shouldn't be a problem, in theory. I think the issues with the Satellite. Taking that out fixes the issue. Also, it's only an issue at 88.2. 48k works like a champ.
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Post by popmann on Dec 28, 2015 21:13:42 GMT -6
It's not--the 16a is part of a scalable system it has one port because you network them with an AVB hub. I want to say they will go to 128 channels over the single Thunderbolt. I saw a video where someone was recording a live show with a bunch of them plugged into a little MBAir.
At 88.2 without the satellite? I mean, basic troubleshooting--remove something non essential temporarily. Or 88.2 with the built in audio (but with the Satellite)....?
No VIs, right? All audio?
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2015 21:27:33 GMT -6
It's not--the 16a is part of a scalable system it has one port because you network them with an AVB hub. I want to say they will go to 128 channels over the single Thunderbolt. I saw a video where someone was recording a live show with a bunch of them plugged into a little MBAir. At 88.2 without the satellite? I mean, basic troubleshooting--remove something non essential temporarily. Or 88.2 with the built in audio (but with the Satellite)....? No VIs, right? All audio? Yeah, 88.2 works fine without the Satellite. Also, 88.2 works fine via USB, even while running the thunderbolt satellite. So, the problem is running the 16a at 88.2 thru the satellite over thunderbolt. But why? Surely I'm not the first dude whose tried this? Am I?
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Post by popmann on Dec 29, 2015 12:43:55 GMT -6
It's not unlikely. I didn't even know they made TB satellites. And, IME, 99% of recordings are made at single rates. Not to mention how few would have a TB interface that is NOT an Apollo...and a newish satellite? If I were invested in the UA platform, I'd have an Apollo16s tied into Thunderbolt. If I need Octo power....I guess they have that, no? One box. When I was sussing out Cubase's hardware insert compensation....I would find literally NO ONE on the net who used that functionality. I was blown away....at the lack of using the SINGLE feature that got me to buy Cubase--that it tested doing that IO compensation far more consistently and tighter than PT10 and Reaper. Logic got disqualified for other reason--but, it's likely tight due to the Symphony system....I digress....yes, you might BE first man on this moon, is my point. So, the Mini has two TB ports, right? One is going to your monitor, which is then replicated at it's TB port, right? So, I would play with the ordering. I would put the Satellite on it's own TB plugged into the MINI (first)--that's the one that's eating the most bandwidth by FAR....every single 88.2 mono plug in will require 32/88.2 streams in both directions--if you have 4 inserted on a single track, that's 8 streams of 32/88 data going over that bus....it has no way to know it's ALSO processing the next plug in slot, you know? Anyway--that's your hog--even if you're using 16x16 on the MOTU simultaneously, that's relatively nothing. That's my bet for a starting place of ordering: MINI TB 1= to the Display then MOTU MINI TB2= UAD Plug it up that way....reboot....try again. If that's a no go, swap the MOTU to it's own....and share the UAD and the LED.....Then give the LED it's own and dasiy chain the audio boxes....
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Post by wiz on Dec 29, 2015 14:42:47 GMT -6
It's not unlikely. I didn't even know they made TB satellites. And, IME, 99% of recordings are made at single rates. Not to mention how few would have a TB interface that is NOT an Apollo...and a newish satellite? If I were invested in the UA platform, I'd have an Apollo16s tied into Thunderbolt. If I need Octo power....I guess they have that, no? One box. When I was sussing out Cubase's hardware insert compensation....I would find literally NO ONE on the net who used that functionality. I was blown away....at the lack of using the SINGLE feature that got me to buy Cubase--that it tested doing that IO compensation far more consistently and tighter than PT10 and Reaper. Logic got disqualified for other reason--but, it's likely tight due to the Symphony system....I digress....yes, you might BE first man on this moon, is my point. So, the Mini has two TB ports, right? One is going to your monitor, which is then replicated at it's TB port, right? So, I would play with the ordering. I would put the Satellite on it's own TB plugged into the MINI (first)--that's the one that's eating the most bandwidth by FAR....every single 88.2 mono plug in will require 32/88.2 streams in both directions--if you have 4 inserted on a single track, that's 8 streams of 32/88 data going over that bus....it has no way to know it's ALSO processing the next plug in slot, you know? Anyway--that's your hog--even if you're using 16x16 on the MOTU simultaneously, that's relatively nothing. That's my bet for a starting place of ordering: MINI TB 1= to the Display then MOTU MINI TB2= UAD Plug it up that way....reboot....try again. If that's a no go, swap the MOTU to it's own....and share the UAD and the LED.....Then give the LED it's own and dasiy chain the audio boxes.... Logics IO got disqualified? As I use Logic, and its IO plug in.. continuosly.. can you expand on why you didn't like it? cheers Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2015 15:05:39 GMT -6
Double check your satellite has the correct sample rate. My Apollo twin will typically not automatically sync sample rates and causes crackling until I manually adjust. I had no idea I have to change sample rates on a satellite. Kudos to you if that pans out! The satellite has no converters so needs no sample rate adjustment. The satellite should probably be last on your chain. You have to set an apollo to be master or slave they do not automatically adjust.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2015 17:12:01 GMT -6
It's not unlikely. I didn't even know they made TB satellites. And, IME, 99% of recordings are made at single rates. Not to mention how few would have a TB interface that is NOT an Apollo...and a newish satellite? If I were invested in the UA platform, I'd have an Apollo16s tied into Thunderbolt. If I need Octo power....I guess they have that, no? One box. When I was sussing out Cubase's hardware insert compensation....I would find literally NO ONE on the net who used that functionality. I was blown away....at the lack of using the SINGLE feature that got me to buy Cubase--that it tested doing that IO compensation far more consistently and tighter than PT10 and Reaper. Logic got disqualified for other reason--but, it's likely tight due to the Symphony system....I digress....yes, you might BE first man on this moon, is my point. So, the Mini has two TB ports, right? One is going to your monitor, which is then replicated at it's TB port, right? So, I would play with the ordering. I would put the Satellite on it's own TB plugged into the MINI (first)--that's the one that's eating the most bandwidth by FAR....every single 88.2 mono plug in will require 32/88.2 streams in both directions--if you have 4 inserted on a single track, that's 8 streams of 32/88 data going over that bus....it has no way to know it's ALSO processing the next plug in slot, you know? Anyway--that's your hog--even if you're using 16x16 on the MOTU simultaneously, that's relatively nothing. That's my bet for a starting place of ordering: MINI TB 1= to the Display then MOTU MINI TB2= UAD Plug it up that way....reboot....try again. If that's a no go, swap the MOTU to it's own....and share the UAD and the LED.....Then give the LED it's own and dasiy chain the audio boxes.... No dice. 2012 Mac Mini = 1 thunderbolt port.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2015 17:13:42 GMT -6
I had no idea I have to change sample rates on a satellite. Kudos to you if that pans out! The satellite has no converters so needs no sample rate adjustment. The satellite should probably be last on your chain. You have to set an apollo to be master or slave they do not automatically adjust. Thanks. Not using the Apollo at the moment, and the 16a HAS to be the last in the chain, as it only has 1 thunderbolt out. I can't plug anything else into the Motu.
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Post by popmann on Dec 29, 2015 18:29:20 GMT -6
When I was sussing out Cubase's hardware insert compensation....I would find literally NO ONE on the net who used that functionality. I was blown away....at the lack of using the SINGLE feature that got me to buy Cubase--that it tested doing that IO compensation far more consistently and tighter than PT10 and Reaper. Logic got disqualified for other reason--but, it's likely tight due to the Symphony system....I digress....yes, you might BE first man on this moon, is my point. Logics IO got disqualified? As I use Logic, and its IO plug in.. continuosly.. can you expand on why you didn't like it? cheers Wiz No....Logic was out for another reason--not it's IO plug. Sort of--DESPITE having likely the second most mature IO compensation. Those three were cross platform. If I'm gonna bet which company comes out in pro audio's corner, it won't be Apple. I love my Apples--and I didn't test Sonar's IO for the same reason.... I've uninstalled Logic9 now that I"m using the Air more in the studio. I needed the space...and they proved I was right--my 3 years old Air barely meets min spec for LogicX. New OSX won't run Logic9. I'm glad I went the way I did. I half expect the to start including it with purchase of the computer. I would love to try that new virtual drummer that "follows" audio, though.... I digress. Yeah-one TB port running the high rez display, an Octo DSP card, and a 16x16 interface....you might've found the limits. You can find that out though--if you do a project with no UAD plug ins, BUT the accelerator is still plugged in--do you have issues? If not....start adding DSP....see what point you start crackling. I also looked--I can't believe Apple is making those panels NOT have a standard input. No HDMI? No DVI? So...it's TB or nothing....so, you can't just move the video off the bus....
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2015 19:11:12 GMT -6
The satellite has no converters so needs no sample rate adjustment. The satellite should probably be last on your chain. You have to set an apollo to be master or slave they do not automatically adjust. Thanks. Not using the Apollo at the moment, and the 16a HAS to be the last in the chain, as it only has 1 thunderbolt out. I can't plug anything else into the Motu. Right but your mini has 2 tb ports and you apple display has 2 tbolt ports : correct ? So, have you had your moto off 1 dedicated tb port and the A display off the other mini tb port and the satellite tb'd off the display ?
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Post by dandeurloo on Dec 29, 2015 19:13:28 GMT -6
Sorry, I didn't read all this. But I have a Mac mini with one TB connected to my 16a. 16a connected to my 24ao via AVB. No problems at any sample rate.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2015 19:20:38 GMT -6
Thanks. Not using the Apollo at the moment, and the 16a HAS to be the last in the chain, as it only has 1 thunderbolt out. I can't plug anything else into the Motu. Right but your mini has 2 tb ports and you apple display has 2 tbolt ports : correct ? So, have you had your moto off 1 dedicated tb port and the A display off the other mini tb port and the satellite tb'd off the display ? Sorry, wrong on both counts. 1 tb port on the Mac mini and 1 port on the display.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2015 19:24:29 GMT -6
Sorry, I didn't read all this. But I have a Mac mini with one TB connected to my 16a. 16a connected to my 24ao via AVB. No problems at any sample rate. Are you running the 16a into a UAD satellite? Cause that's where my problems are at.
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Post by dandeurloo on Dec 29, 2015 20:40:08 GMT -6
No, I have my PCIe UAD quad card in a expansion chassis. I actually run out of the mac mini into the expansion chassis first than to my 16a with the TB.
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Post by popmann on Dec 29, 2015 20:57:22 GMT -6
Dan.....typical session rate? That's effectively the same thing he's doing other than his being an Octo. But, his works fine at 48khz--not 88.
I thought I typed this before, but since I don't see it scanning up the page--what happens if you plug all three in, run the a full session at double rate, but you don't actually USE UAD plug ins? If that works....add UAD plugs until you get the crackling.
Also, if you're using a >10.9 OSX....make sure to try 96khz. I don't know the details, but they did something that made the system clock and all system sounds 48khz or something....part of the CoreAudio overhaul that broke everything. 96 being a multiplier of the system clock might change the game for real time performance.
Brainstorming aloud....hopefully something helps and you're not just bumping your head against the bandwidth limits.
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Post by tasteliketape on Dec 29, 2015 21:35:55 GMT -6
Maybe try the motu with usb and uad thunderbolt just to see if the problem is still there with motu usb also I had a bad thunderbolt cable that caused problems I liked to never figured it out at a live recording changed to usb and was rock solid Bought a new thunderbolt cable and everthing is great
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Post by popmann on Dec 29, 2015 21:47:05 GMT -6
He did that--it works fine with the MOTU on USB and the other two on TB.
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Post by dandeurloo on Dec 30, 2015 0:41:00 GMT -6
I can easily do 96k.
I wonder if the satellite doesn't have the proper pass thru speeds or if it needs more power?
You could also try another TB cable. Maybe one of those is messed up. I have heard of that happening a lot.
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