High end speaker cables: Fact or Fiction?

Svart's right about diminishing returns. For those with kilobuck budgets, perhaps that last little bit of improvement means everything, for some, it doesn't matter. Now, indiehouse, I gotta tell you when you say "I understand this is somewhat of a contested issue. Some guys believe, some guys don't", I've found this particular topic to be the biggest can of worms I've ever seen opened since the internet began, and I'm honestly not exaggerating.

Long stories short, I've learned to trust my ears.For more than five years, I used to beta test high end cables for some manufacturers back in my audiophile days. These cables averaged from $99 to $2,500 each. Here's the bottom line, cables do make a difference, no matter how many pseudo scientists want to explain to you why it's all in your mind or blind test you to death, they sound different. What I ended up doing was looking for the best value, and found that buying second hand was a good idea, because some people like to change brands a lot, and cables don't wear out that easily. I'd used to find things like a $350 power cord for $150, to give you an idea.

Recently, a friend who's the senior editor of the major audiophile magazine sent me two power cords. I did him a small favor, needed a power cord, and he had these lying around. I tried them both, and could clearly hear an improvement from one to the other. It turned out that one cable had been sold retail for $250, the other one, $2,000. Now, I'm a trust my ears guy, remember, so I'd love to say the $250 one was better, but in this case, it wasn't. Still I didn't have a clue as to their value, and they both looked fat, well made and mighty pricey, so the choice I made was from the sound I liked, not the price tag influencing me.

As for your speaker cables, what brand are they?

Do not, I repeat, do not buy Monster cables. They're like Bose, a brand known to those who know little. Look for the lower end of these high end brands, that's where the bang for the buck lies, just before that point of diminishing returns Svart mentioned. In this order:

Acoustic Zen, Harmonic Technology, Analysis Plus Oval 8's, Synergistic Research, Transparent Audio, Cardas, Kimber Kable, Audioquest here:

app.audiogon.com/listings?utf8=✓&global_search_text=speaker+cables

I promise to bow out as soon as the rockets start firing here, so good luck !

I get what you're saying Tony. I've honestly heard it all when it comes to this topic. Years back, I used to argue on audiophile sites for months that jitter mattered with the "zeros and ones are zeros and ones, digital is digital" crowd, and now jitter is an accepted factor in sound quality, and my time was wasted putting pearls before swine. These are often the same guys who'd say cables don't sound different. Your analogy makes sense, and I know you're a smart cat, but still, I've heard no difference, and both small and huge differences regarding power cords and speaker cables.

I do use high grade outlets, (PS Audio), there are a few that cost around $50 that I like. I use a power conditioner, but not the crazy money type, one that cost $500. All I've ever said is just try it with an open mind. If you were at my place, I'd bet dollars to dimes you'd hear the difference between the two power cords I mentioned, and I guarantee, a guy with your experience would know which was which.

Really, just try it, and see what you find. Try two or three speaker cables carefully. I've done this hundreds and hundreds of times, occasionally under test conditions. The most important thing I can offer here is this, often the differences in sound quality didn't always reveal themselves in a test listening situation, but I found that subtle tone qualities and differences revealed themselves over time, but once noticed, like a mustard stain on a nice tie you can't take your eyes off, your ears go right to the thing that bugs you, and it never stops bugging you.

Obviously there are some that are just wayyyy over the top, but a good pair of speaker cables with quality wire and connectors makes a difference.

I use Kimber 8TC speaker cable here. It's rather low cost, 16 runs of teflon coated copper, a PITA to terminate and it sounds wonderful.

I also use his pure silver/teflon AGSS 19 gauge stranded for mic cables and interconnects, it's amazing sounding.

I don't wear jewelry, I listen through it. Silver cable is part of my precious metals retirement account.

I've never bought into cable mania. I use good stuff - not the best (Mogami everywhere in the studio) and forget about it. There is no doubt better cables. But I can't afford to wire miles of cable in my studio with esoteric stuff.  Instead I chose a good mid-line cable and stuck with it. I will say though, I went to a buddy's house once. He's a big name scoring engineer who many of you have heard of. I asked him what he was doing, and he told me "burning in my new speaker cables". With a little hesitation I followed him to his listening room - Dunlevy's, huge mono bloc's that are a 2 man job to pick up each side (L or R), components set on stone, etc., etc., etc. and they did sound amazingly fantastic - they were multi stranded with different gauges and all kind of voodoo stuff. Of course, they were $5000 cables that were about 6-8 feet long. Did they make a big difference? Yeah, I'm pretty sure they did. I trust his ears more than I trust my grandmother. But $5k? No freakin' way....

I've spent well over $50,000 in cables and patchbays @ my studio - and that's with Mogami, Elco's and good TT bays. To take it "high end" would put me over $200k I'm pretty sure. Good enough is good enough..... I leave the rest for audiophiles.

I decided to get a decent home system in the late '90's. I bought B+W CDM7NT's with the Nautilus tweeters, and a Cary Audio SLI-80 integrated tube amp. The dealer A/B'ed in mono, two speakers side by side, one with good quality 16 ga. copper zip cord, and the other with a medium level Audioquest bi-wire cable. Bi-wire seemed like voodoo, since the second set of binding posts on the speaker (which come with a jumper for one wire) went into a passive crossover anyway.

But the difference in sound was not subtle. So I bought the Audioquests. 

Hi Tony, apologies my friend, I didn't mean to sound condescending, I think you know me better than that. I also get how much care you're putting into your studio, probably a lot more than even I would, as I don't know 10% of what you do about building..

I'm not really pushing anything, and I understand a power cord can't change what it receives, although I think it might affect what comes out of it to some degree.

All I've ever said in general regarding cables and power cords is for folks to try a few brands. That's all, and I mean that in the most friendly way. In my case I've heard differences, and simply chose the ones I preferred. If you're even bothering with something like Kimber kable, than it's likely you found they sound better than radio shack wire, or am I wrong?

Cables are a part of what I sell for a living. Everything from lower end stuff like GLS to the really high end stuff, like Analysis Plus. I will tell you straight up, that in a blind test, I can't pick out which cables are which.The ONLY factor in determining these differences is capacitance, which essentially will only affect the top end of your signal. If a cable boasts any other kind of audible superiority, it's marketing bullshit.

That said, the more expensive cables do perform better than budget cables in a few categories: RF rejection/shielding, flexibility, reliability. These are the factors that matter and what I make sure my customers know.

I like Evidence Audio Siren II for all of my personal speaker cable needs. In my opinion, the speaker cable is the most important cable to upgrade if you're gonna upgrade anything. Has the highest point of failure and thus needs to be the most reliable link in your signal chain.

In the world of a high end cables there is science, marketing, and snake oil .
I have always liked Kimber and MIT, both backed by some pretty spectacular science.

Not all Monster Products are bad, in the late 80s their top of the line was stuff was designed by the guy behind MIT cables.
You would be supervisors how many hi priced cables are redressed Mogami or Belden.

As Far as power cords I tend to be a non belivier more than a few when opened have been down right scary.

Sinasoid, you made some good points, but there are a few additional aspects I'd like to add to some of your statements.

Most of us might not hear any difference in blind tests, although I've done a few and was able to identify different speakers cables in one instance, and different amplifiers at another time 4 out of 5 times, which statistically means I'm really hearing something. Blind tests have their own biases too. You sound like a good guy, but when you say something is a fact, like the ONLY difference is capacitance, well there a lots of scientists who might disagree, as well as some very fine musicians.

So far, at least three members here say they hear differences when choosing speaker cables. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but maybe you just don't hear anything or notice it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. There are many things in audio I never noticed until I was made aware, and then I had trouble not hearing them.

I've noticed over the years that people tend to overlook my statement that differences often reveal themselves over time. Critically listen to a speaker cable or an interconnect for a week, and you might notice something you didn't in a sit down and compare now test. The things you begin to notice might be desirable, or annoying, it depends. Sometimes a difference might be as subtle as you catching yourself listening for shorter periods of time when using one particular brand. You would have to take meticulous notes to even notice it, but I have done that years ago.

Again, all I've advised indiehouse to do is try a few brands and see if he has a preference. I think there's not too much harm done doing that, and some good might come of it.