|
Post by yotonic on Sept 14, 2014 17:49:53 GMT -6
Not that it matters, but I don't think Jobs would have ever gone for this deal. He was as crazy about music as his brand, and this U2 co-promotion is the typical uninspired middle management blunder.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Sept 14, 2014 18:36:23 GMT -6
::)LOL
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Sept 15, 2014 2:54:47 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Sept 15, 2014 7:32:17 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Sept 15, 2014 7:53:25 GMT -6
"Eventually, artists will be going onstage like race-car drivers covered in hundreds of logos. John, stay pure. Your credibility, your integrity and your honor are things no company should be able to buy." This is so true. And it's just not music. Sporting events, which were once pure sport are also now one long media events/corporate advertisements. There are very few public places you can just go and have a pure life experience without getting bombarded with some kind of sales pitch.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Sept 15, 2014 10:42:41 GMT -6
"Eventually, artists will be going onstage like race-car drivers covered in hundreds of logos. John, stay pure. Your credibility, your integrity and your honor are things no company should be able to buy." This is so true. And it's just not music. Sporting events, which were once pure sport are also now one long media events/corporate advertisements. There are very few public places you can just go and have a pure life experience without getting bombarded with some kind of sales pitch. LOL yes everything gets over commercialized. We are living in a plutocracy if you have not recognized it yet. People/Companies with money dictate where the journey is going too. And people like Obama / Merkel (Put in any western leader) say - YES I CAN DO IT FOR YOU. It is the sell out off true (music) culture. If I see that the famous Berlin Philharmoniker have to play under the sponsorship of "Deutsche Bank" I feel sorry for them.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Sept 15, 2014 11:24:26 GMT -6
I often wonder how much Steve Jobs is laughing at us from his grave, the rich get richer, the poor can be heard but stay poor. Simple solution we all buy Apple stock and demand that they change the model, of course the rich get even richer when they sell us their stock. It would be fun to learn why Apple did the U2 deal, IPhone debute? Keep ITunes relevant ? Stock price? U2 is to Cook what the Beatles were to Jobs?
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Sept 15, 2014 11:37:43 GMT -6
We need, special in music, a counterculture. That is what PONO wants to be. If more and more people put their music exclusivly on Pono in this case the music maybe is save there. I would go even farer and say - those files can only be heard on the Pono player. In software copy protection like I lock is normal. The problem with music is we do not start to protect our work. For now way over 20 years we are just helpless? It is stupid to make people believe music is for free. If someone of you knows Neil Young talk to him about it…. It is time to strike back with a thing like Pono where the files are bound to a hardware "dongle".
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Sept 15, 2014 13:05:17 GMT -6
It is stupid to make people believe music is for free. We don't HAVE to make them. Talk to anyone under 30 - they ALREADY believe music is free. They have no basis for their dogmatic belief system, so if confronted they will cocoon back into a fairy never, never land of "everything on the internet should be free" dogma, and completely shut you out - OR they will tell you to F-off. There is no going back. Only smart thinking. U2 knows this. Their manager knows it even better. They know damn well they would not make 100 million in "sales" via iTunes, so they sold the rights to Apple so that apple could "give" it away. (i.e.: promotion) Their manager is laughing/dancing all the way to the bank every morning. Smartest "business" move any band has made in a decade. Find any other band grossing even a 1/10th of 100M on a release. It isn't happening anymore.... Check the RIAA stats. A MEGA release might, MIGHT sell gold or platinum now. And that's nowhere in the vicinity of $100M. On the U2, Madonna, Stones, Swift, JayZ, Buble, Mars, Mumford, etc. front, it's about MONEY - music is just the product. If you want to stay alive and are a professional, you have to think smart, fight hard, and adapt. Anything else puts you into dinosaur land...
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Sept 15, 2014 15:37:27 GMT -6
"Eventually, artists will be going onstage like race-car drivers covered in hundreds of logos. John, stay pure. Your credibility, your integrity and your honor are things no company should be able to buy." This is so true. And it's just not music. Sporting events, which were once pure sport are also now one long media events/corporate advertisements. There are very few public places you can just go and have a pure life experience without getting bombarded with some kind of sales pitch. oh please, most of the guys on here are writing commercial music.
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Sept 15, 2014 15:41:04 GMT -6
if anyone thinks this music is for free then they are the stupid ones.
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on Sept 15, 2014 15:49:42 GMT -6
...the only charting/sales statistics I will believe are those that don't originate from the Apple machine...don't believe the hype...
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Sept 15, 2014 16:08:17 GMT -6
...the only charting/sales statistics I will believe are those that don't originate from the Apple machine...don't believe the hype... They gave it to everybody, interesting to see how many return it!
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Sept 15, 2014 17:56:28 GMT -6
It is stupid to make people believe music is for free. We don't HAVE to make them. Talk to anyone under 30 - they ALREADY believe music is free. They have no basis for their dogmatic belief system, so if confronted they will cocoon back into a fairy never, never land of "everything on the internet should be free" dogma, and completely shut you out - OR they will tell you to F-off. There is no going back. Only smart thinking. U2 knows this. Their manager knows it even better. They know damn well they would not make 100 million in "sales" via iTunes, so they sold the rights to Apple so that apple could "give" it away. (i.e.: promotion) Their manager is laughing/dancing all the way to the bank every morning. Smartest "business" move any band has made in a decade. Find any other band grossing even a 1/10th of 100M on a release. It isn't happening anymore.... Check the RIAA stats. A MEGA release might, MIGHT sell gold or platinum now. And that's nowhere in the vicinity of $100M. On the U2, Madonna, Stones, Swift, JayZ, Buble, Mars, Mumford, etc. front, it's about MONEY - music is just the product. If you want to stay alive and are a professional, you have to think smart, fight hard, and adapt. Anything else puts you into dinosaur land… There should be a way to ask a Tycoon like Google why they just pay 00000.14 cents per Stream. I mean they use the music, they make money with it. Its ridicules taht composers are not united in this question. Just the medium changed and the whole system is staring how they steal our money. Some of us still argue that they reach a lot of fans. WTF are we all blinded?
|
|
|
Post by donr on Sept 15, 2014 18:07:53 GMT -6
I'd be surprised if U2's catalog titles took a jump anywhere else besides iTunes in the wake of "Songs of Innocence," but frankly, iTunes is the giant of paid digital music distribution.
Lots of folks hate on Apple for various reasons, but history will show Apple saved the music business' ass from extinction, and that should be acknowledged. The major labels completely whiffed the transition to digital sales and distribution, and maybe they couldn't have done it without Apple's hardware/software walled garden even if they'd known what they were doing. Microsoft wouldn't have done it, they're not that imaginative or focused.
Apple created the player/store combo that reminded the general public that they used to buy music, and made it easy to do so. They made it cool enough that even the Windows crowd came over while Microsoft's version of iPod/iTunes tanked. The 70/30 content/Apple split is even reasonable considering the traditional retail/middlemen markup in the old model.
Music's current woes are due to the decline and demise of the music ownership model, which Apple also didn't see coming, the necessity of some kind of free internet "radio" to acquaint and promote the listener with new music, and the latest generation's notion that if you can listen to it for free when you want, why would you pay for it?
I think popular music will survive in the subscription era, but it's not going to be worth what it was in the hard copy days. As Stephen King said in the Dark Tower, "the world moved on."
People disparage the success of a corporation who has anticipated a market for a product they deliver. Why? Government certainly can't and doesn't do it. Governmental power is reactive and motivationally corrupt by nature and structure. If not a corporation lead by visionaries, who?
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Sept 15, 2014 18:36:00 GMT -6
We don't HAVE to make them. Talk to anyone under 30 - they ALREADY believe music is free. They have no basis for their dogmatic belief system, so if confronted they will cocoon back into a fairy never, never land of "everything on the internet should be free" dogma, and completely shut you out - OR they will tell you to F-off. There is no going back. Only smart thinking. U2 knows this. Their manager knows it even better. They know damn well they would not make 100 million in "sales" via iTunes, so they sold the rights to Apple so that apple could "give" it away. (i.e.: promotion) Their manager is laughing/dancing all the way to the bank every morning. Smartest "business" move any band has made in a decade. Find any other band grossing even a 1/10th of 100M on a release. It isn't happening anymore.... Check the RIAA stats. A MEGA release might, MIGHT sell gold or platinum now. And that's nowhere in the vicinity of $100M. On the U2, Madonna, Stones, Swift, JayZ, Buble, Mars, Mumford, etc. front, it's about MONEY - music is just the product. If you want to stay alive and are a professional, you have to think smart, fight hard, and adapt. Anything else puts you into dinosaur land… There should be a way to ask a Tycoon like Google why they just pay 00000.14 cents per Stream. I mean they use the music, they make money with it. Its ridicules taht composers are not united in this question. Just the medium changed and the whole system is staring how they steal our money. Some of us still argue that they reach a lot of fans. WTF are we all blinded? Nobody blindfolded here, but because of compulsory licenses, streaming can take advantage of the situation right now. There's nothing the PRO's can do about it. They are AUTOMATICALLY granted a compulsory license in the good faith hopes that they will negotiate fairly. Obviously, fair is something that Google only feels applies to themselves - not others. Hopefully in the US, congress will make newer, stricter, more up to date (technology wise) legislation that will HELP songwriters instead of raping them.
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Sept 15, 2014 18:36:58 GMT -6
And it might as well be printed on old news papers because it's not backed by anything. Not to mention the whole market is artificially propped up to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Sept 15, 2014 20:31:18 GMT -6
I often wonder how much Steve Jobs is laughing at us from his grave, the rich get richer, the poor can be heard but stay poor. Simple solution we all buy Apple stock and demand that they change the model, of course the rich get even richer when they sell us their stock. It would be fun to learn why Apple did the U2 deal, IPhone debute? Keep ITunes relevant ? Stock price? U2 is to Cook what the Beatles were to Jobs? Good point, Eric. I question the wisdom of Apple's Beats deal also. But Apple has boatloads of cash, and have lately positioned themselves betting on the way culture is going rather than tech specific product. I think they'll do well with their ApplePay NFC payment implementation, which Google has been trying to get going for a while without much success. Apple just has the heft of their installed base and the relative security of iOS to put this over, while Android is too fragmented in it's iterations to get all their licensees on the same page to do.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Sept 15, 2014 20:52:06 GMT -6
Here's Tim Cook on Charlie Rose explaining the fundamental difference between Apple and companies like Google. Can you trust him? I don't know. I do know a tech guy fairly high up at Apple who after the iPhone 5s was released, told me that Apple has no idea what finger print opens your phone, that data is stored only on that particular phone and does not go to any internet destination, and that was a prime directive of doing the fingerprint thing in the first place. Apple also does not have access to your iMessage data either. Apple sells hardware and software product, not your personal data. blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/09/15/apples-cook-your-data-is-not-our-business/?mod=wsj_nview_latest
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Sept 15, 2014 21:36:09 GMT -6
I'd just like to know I could eke out about $45k per year until I retire. That's all I would ask for to be able to stay in this business.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 15, 2014 21:42:21 GMT -6
So, I was wrong. U2 were handsomely paid, just not by their fans, by Apple. That seems smart, since this is maybe the only way for them to possibly attract a lot of new fans, as they've been around for 3 decades now.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Sept 15, 2014 22:12:50 GMT -6
I'd be surprised if U2's catalog titles took a jump anywhere else besides iTunes in the wake of "Songs of Innocence," but frankly, iTunes is the giant of paid digital music distribution. Lots of folks hate on Apple for various reasons, but history will show Apple saved the music business' ass from extinction, and that should be acknowledged. The major labels completely whiffed the transition to digital sales and distribution, and maybe they couldn't have done it without Apple's hardware/software walled garden even if they'd known what they were doing. Microsoft wouldn't have done it, they're not that imaginative or focused. Apple created the player/store combo that reminded the general public that they used to buy music, and made it easy to do so. They made it cool enough that even the Windows crowd came over while Microsoft's version of iPod/iTunes tanked. The 70/30 content/Apple split is even reasonable considering the traditional retail/middlemen markup in the old model. Music's current woes are due to the decline and demise of the music ownership model, which Apple also didn't see coming, the necessity of some kind of free internet "radio" to acquaint and promote the listener with new music, and the latest generation's notion that if you can listen to it for free when you want, why would you pay for it? I think popular music will survive in the subscription era, but it's not going to be worth what it was in the hard copy days. As Stephen King said in the Dark Tower, "the world moved on." People disparage the success of a corporation who has anticipated a market for a product they deliver. Why? Government certainly can't and doesn't do it. Governmental power is reactive and motivationally corrupt by nature and structure. If not a corporation lead by visionaries, who?I agree with most of this ^, i don't see apple as the core of the problem, they make some great stuff, but i do see the same governmental corporate visionaries lobby/legislating the unfair rules of the game, they(the big money corps/government) are virtually one in the same. There is a bipartisan revolving door between wall street and K street. www.npr.org/2014/09/09/347151287/cantor-brings-congressional-connections-to-wall-street-job
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Sept 16, 2014 2:34:04 GMT -6
There should be a way to ask a Tycoon like Google why they just pay 00000.14 cents per Stream. I mean they use the music, they make money with it. Its ridicules taht composers are not united in this question. Just the medium changed and the whole system is staring how they steal our money. Some of us still argue that they reach a lot of fans. WTF are we all blinded? Nobody blindfolded here, but because of compulsory licenses, streaming can take advantage of the situation right now. There's nothing the PRO's can do about it. They are AUTOMATICALLY granted a compulsory license in the good faith hopes that they will negotiate fairly. Obviously, fair is something that Google only feels applies to themselves - not others. Hopefully in the US, congress will make newer, stricter, more up to date (technology wise) legislation that will HELP songwriters instead of raping them. Is this the help you mean… www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2014/04/03/streamingstatementsIt's not enough to live nor to die.
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Sept 16, 2014 3:29:46 GMT -6
Highest tour incomes. U2 top of list again.
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on Sept 16, 2014 21:17:07 GMT -6
|
|